Zone1 Do most Jews believe they killed Jesus?

[irosie91]

Obviously. He married Herodias. That didn't stop Herodias from being irked with John.

that she was a divorcee would not have been a disqualification for her marriage to Herod---even
if he had been an observant jew----which he was not. What he was----in the opinion of observant jews---NOT QUALIFIED to be a "ruler". Jews at that time did not like Roman appointees. <<< that is an historic fact, well documented (but not in the archives of the vatican)

 

[irosie91]

Not what I said. I noted what was frowned upon was a brother marrying his brother's ex.

who "FROWNED" upon it? Who made an ISSUE of it?

 

[surada]

that she was a divorcee would not have been a disqualification for her marriage to Herod---even
if he had been an observant jew----which he was not. What he was----in the opinion of observant jews---NOT QUALIFIED to be a "ruler". Jews at that time did not like Roman appointees. <<< that is an historic fact, well documented (but not in the archives of the vatican)

The Sanhedrin didn't like Herod Antipas. Right?

 

[irosie91]

The Sanhedrin didn't like Herod Antipas. Right?

Probably not-----but as far as I know no such
objection is recorded. Since the Sanhedrin included
lots of Roman appointees-----it is not likely that it
commented

 

[surada]

Probably not-----but as far as I know no such
objection is recorded. Since the Sanhedrin included
lots of Roman appointees-----it is not likely that it
commented

The Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and the Zealots - URJ Isaac and Helaine Heller High School in Israel

Last week we visited the Israel Museum to learn about the Roman Period and the different groups of Jews who lived under Roman rule - the Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and the Zealots.

hellerhigh.org

 

[Meriweather]

who "FROWNED" upon it? Who made an ISSUE of it?

John for one. Herodias reacted which indicates more people than she would have liked agreed with John.

 

[irosie91]

The Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and the Zealots - URJ Isaac and Helaine Heller High School in Israel

Last week we visited the Israel Museum to learn about the Roman Period and the different groups of Jews who lived under Roman rule - the Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and the Zealots.

hellerhigh.org

thanks for YET ANOTHER cut and paste----I give it a C-

 

[irosie91]

John for one. Herodias reacted which indicates more people than she would have liked agreed with John.

wrong again----John did not like Herodias---because she was a slut

 

[surada]

wrong again----John did not like Herodias---because she was a slut

John the Baptist ridiculed Herodias because he claimed the marriage violated Mosaic law.

Herodias | Biography, Herod Antipas, John the Baptist, & Facts

Herodias, the wife of Herod Antipas, who was tetrarch (ruler of a minor principality in the Roman Empire) of Galilee in northern Palestine. She conspired with her daughter Salome to arrange the execution of John the Baptist. Learn more about her life, marriages, and exile with this article.

www.britannica.com

 

[irosie91]

John the Baptist ridiculed Herodias because he claimed the marriage violated Mosaic law.

Herodias | Biography, Herod Antipas, John the Baptist, & Facts

Herodias, the wife of Herod Antipas, who was tetrarch (ruler of a minor principality in the Roman Empire) of Galilee in northern Palestine. She conspired with her daughter Salome to arrange the execution of John the Baptist. Learn more about her life, marriages, and exile with this article.

www.britannica.com

OH---lets ask the ever reliable INSPIRED Matthew. BTW what mosaic law did matthew say that Herodias had violated?

 

[Meriweather]

wrong again----John did not like Herodias---because she was a slut

John did not know Herodias. He was commenting on Herod Antipas' visit to his half-brother Herod Phillip where Antipas fell in love with Phillip's wife and went through a few intrigues to get her to move into his area. Antipas intended to secretly divorce his current wife, but she got news of his plans and pretending she knew nothing, got Antipas to send her to visit her father.

While this may sound like a tempest in a teapot to us, it seems it was a big to-do at the time, because people started raising armies.

Meanwhile, John-the-Baptist was popular in his own right and Antipas thought he, too, might be able to raise an army, so he imprisoned John as he had enough to deal with between Herod Phillip and his former wife's father.

At this point, Antipas may or may not have been satisfied with just the imprisonment of John, but the account in the Bible suggests that Herodias was the force behind John's execution.

 

[irosie91]

John did not know Herodias. He was commenting on Herod Antipas' visit to his half-brother Herod Phillip where Antipas fell in love with Phillip's wife and went through a few intrigues to get her to move into his area. Antipas intended to secretly divorce his current wife, but she got news of his plans and pretending she knew nothing, got Antipas to send her to visit her father.

While this may sound like a tempest in a teapot to us, it seems it was a big to-do at the time, because people started raising armies.

Meanwhile, John-the-Baptist was popular in his own right and Antipas thought he, too, might be able to raise an army, so he imprisoned John as he had enough to deal with between Herod Phillip and his former wife's father.

At this point, Antipas may or may not have been satisfied with just the imprisonment of John, but the account in the Bible suggests that Herodias was the force behind John's execution.

it sounds like what it is-----convoluted conjecture----you got the extant DIARIES?

 

[Meriweather]

it sounds like what it is-----convoluted conjecture----you got the extant DIARIES?

I know the Biblical account. I know Josephus' account. It is a simple contribution to the discussion.

 

[irosie91]

I know the Biblical account. I know Josephus' account. It is a simple contribution to the discussion.

more like silly gossip----somehow I get the sense that the matter was not brought up before any OFFICAL BODY-----complete with transcriptionists. John was going to raise AN ARMY?----well that would be something that would concern the Romans since
John was a Pharisee. Seems to me to be a ploy invented by the Roman shills to JUSTIFY killing John

 

[alang1216]

Read the story.

Theology is not history. A little bit of skepticism may be in order.

 

[surada]

Theology is not history. A little bit of skepticism may be in order.

Then read Josephus.

 

[Meriweather]

more like silly gossip----somehow I get the sense that the matter was not brought up before any OFFICAL BODY-----complete with transcriptionists. John was going to raise AN ARMY?----well that would be something that would concern the Romans since
John was a Pharisee. Seems to me to be a ploy invented by the Roman shills to JUSTIFY killing John

It was more than gossip as Antipas did visit his brother, fell in love with his brother's wife, and married her. (I would agree it does sound like a plot from a modern soap opera.)

Josephus wrote of armies being raised. He wrote that Antipas was concerned that John had the ability to also raise an army against him and Antipas took care of that supposed possibility by imprisoning John.

Jospehus says nothing about any part Herodias may have played in John's death. That account only occurs in the Bible, not in anything Josephus wrote.

 

[BreezeWood]

.
^^^^ additional evidence for the corrupt - desert religions ...

their bible's are nothing more than chronologies of criminals and their flights from justice. from that time to the present day.

 

[irosie91]

Then read Josephus.

John died before Josephus was born

 

[alang1216]

Then read Josephus.

Jesus died before he was born. His history may have been expanded by later Christians.