Do the rich earn their income?

[ShackledNation]

I am a 1 ,man show. I made 4K last week.
Did I "earn" it?
Who determines if someone earned too much, enough or not enough?
Government?

The free market price system.

 

[bripat9643]

I am a 1 ,man show. I made 4K last week.
Did I "earn" it?
Who determines if someone earned too much, enough or not enough?
Government?

Whoever paid you the money determined whether you earned it, not govenrment bureaucrats or some envious leftwing toadies.

 

[georgephillip]

I am a 1 ,man show. I made 4K last week.
Did I "earn" it?
Who determines if someone earned too much, enough or not enough?
Government?

Whoever paid you the money determined whether you earned it, not govenrment bureaucrats or some envious leftwing toadies.

Like Enron earned its money?

 

[thereisnospoon]

I am a 1 ,man show. I made 4K last week.
Did I "earn" it?
Who determines if someone earned too much, enough or not enough?
Government?

Whoever paid you the money determined whether you earned it, not govenrment bureaucrats or some envious leftwing toadies.

Like Enron earned its money?

Non sequitur.
No you're going to dazzle us with something like "gadawg could not possibly have earned $4k in a week. He had to cheat to get it."..

 

[bripat9643]

Whoever paid you the money determined whether you earned it, not govenrment bureaucrats or some envious leftwing toadies.

Like Enron earned its money?

We're discussing voluntary exchanges, not fraud. Bernie Madoff didn't earn his money either.

 

[georgephillip]

Whoever paid you the money determined whether you earned it, not govenrment bureaucrats or some envious leftwing toadies.

Like Enron earned its money?

Non sequitur.
No you're going to dazzle us with something like "gadawg could not possibly have earned $4k in a week. He had to cheat to get it."..

While $4,000 is more money than I've earned in many different years during my illustrious life of labor, $4,000/week doesn't even qualify for the richest 1% of Americans, and it is chump change for these guys and gals:

"The median ANNUAL income of a person in the top 0.01% is $50,000,0000. They have $350,000,000 in assets and, since 1978, that is an increase of 550% – how have you done the past 30 years?"

America is 234 Years Old Today – Is It Finished? | Phil

Why do you think someone earning $5,000/week is in the same tax bracket as someone earning $5,000,000/week?

 

[georgephillip]

Whoever paid you the money determined whether you earned it, not govenrment bureaucrats or some envious leftwing toadies.

Like Enron earned its money?

We're discussing voluntary exchanges, not fraud. Bernie Madoff didn't earn his money either.

Do you honestly think Henry Paulson and Franklin Raines earned their money?

"Hank Paulson and Goldman Sachs Are RICO Enterprises

"This New York Times expose on Henry Paulson and Goldman Sachs makes one thing clear: There is now no doubt that Henry Paulson and Goldman Sachs have violate numerous federal laws.

"Paulson laundered several billion dollars of money to Goldman Sachs, through A.I.G. Paulson lied to Congress about the true nature of TARP. Paulson lied to Congress about his role in the Federal Reserve's decision to give over $185 billion to A.I.G.

Crime & Federalism: Hank Paulson and Goldman Sachs Are RICO Enterprises

Democrats are equally corrupt when it comes to serving capital's interests:

"On December 21, 2004 Raines accepted what he called 'early retirement'[4] from his position as CEO(of Fannie Mae) while U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission investigators continued to investigate alleged accounting irregularities.

"He is accused by The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO), the regulating body of Fannie Mae, of abetting widespread accounting errors, which included the shifting of losses so senior executives, such as himself, could earn large bonuses.[5]

"In 2006, the OFHEO announced a suit against Raines in order to recover some or all of the $90 million in payments made to Raines based on the overstated earnings,[6] initially estimated to be $9 billion but have been announced as 6.3 billion."

Franklin Raines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Capitalism rewards fraud. (let the buyer beware)
Voluntary exchange is about as likely as virgin birth.

 

[dblack]

Do you honestly think Henry Paulson and Franklin Raines earned their money?

George, you're missing the point. No one's really denying that there are corrupt assholes making a lots of money. The OP proposed that income on investments was 'unearned', and went on to insinuate it was undeserved, painting the usual caricatures of rich capitalists at leeches on society, extracting wealth and not contributing anything. That's what some of us here are rejecting. Not that fact that plenty of rich people are crooked bastards.

 

[Gadawg73]

Do you honestly think Henry Paulson and Franklin Raines earned their money?

George, you're missing the point. No one's really denying that there are corrupt assholes making a lots of money. The OP proposed that income on investments was 'unearned', and went on to insinuate it was undeserved, painting the usual caricatures of rich capitalists at leeches on society, extracting wealth and not contributing anything. That's what some of us here are rejecting. Not that fact that plenty of rich people are crooked bastards.

I donated $500 to the high school band last week.
Capitalism is bad and I should have never worked so hard to earn that $500 to give to them.
A band does not need new things anyway. They can make do.

 

[Intense]

According to the IRS, the answer is mostly not.

Of the richest of the rich only 6.5% of income was from working, as of 2007. The rest came from things like interest, dividends, and capital gains.

In other words, the kind of income you get without having to wake up in the morning.

Which raises the question: if the rich are consuming without working, who is doing their work for them?

Link

Does the IRS earn it's Income??? How much Through Extortion and Vilification?

The rest came from things like interest, dividends, and capital gains.

Does not investment entail risk? You act like there is something immoral there. Is your pension or retirement fund immoral? When the Government profits from usury, is that immoral too? When the Government makes a killing in Fuel Taxes for doing nothing, is that immoral?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Do you honestly think Henry Paulson and Franklin Raines earned their money?

George, you're missing the point. No one's really denying that there are corrupt assholes making a lots of money. The OP proposed that income on investments was 'unearned', and went on to insinuate it was undeserved, painting the usual caricatures of rich capitalists at leeches on society, extracting wealth and not contributing anything. That's what some of us here are rejecting. Not that fact that plenty of rich people are crooked bastards.

I donated $500 to the high school band last week.
Capitalism is bad and I should have never worked so hard to earn that $500 to give to them.
A band does not need new things anyway. They can make do.

hell they probably wasted the money on more band candy to sell.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

According to the IRS, the answer is mostly not.

Of the richest of the rich only 6.5% of income was from working, as of 2007. The rest came from things like interest, dividends, and capital gains.

In other words, the kind of income you get without having to wake up in the morning.

Which raises the question: if the rich are consuming without working, who is doing their work for them?

Link

Does the IRS earn it's Income??? How much Through Extortion and Vilification?

The rest came from things like interest, dividends, and capital gains.

Does not investment entail risk? You act like there is something immoral there. Is your pension or retirement fund immoral? When the Government profits from usury, is that immoral too? When the Government makes a killing in Fuel Taxes for doing nothing, is that immoral?

Big out of control government good, controlled government with no waste bad. stick with the program intense.

 

[Intense]

According to the IRS, the answer is mostly not.

Of the richest of the rich only 6.5% of income was from working, as of 2007. The rest came from things like interest, dividends, and capital gains.

In other words, the kind of income you get without having to wake up in the morning.

Which raises the question: if the rich are consuming without working, who is doing their work for them?

Link

Does the IRS earn it's Income??? How much Through Extortion and Vilification?

The rest came from things like interest, dividends, and capital gains.

Does not investment entail risk? You act like there is something immoral there. Is your pension or retirement fund immoral? When the Government profits from usury, is that immoral too? When the Government makes a killing in Fuel Taxes for doing nothing, is that immoral?

Big out of control government good, controlled government with no waste bad. stick with the program intense.

I am So Sorry!! You have Never been More Right!!! Thank You So Kindly for pointing out my failings!!!

 

[Colin]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsnA0ix9hZU]DIRE STRAITS - MONEY FOR NOTHING - YouTube[/ame]

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Does the IRS earn it's Income??? How much Through Extortion and Vilification?



Does not investment entail risk? You act like there is something immoral there. Is your pension or retirement fund immoral? When the Government profits from usury, is that immoral too? When the Government makes a killing in Fuel Taxes for doing nothing, is that immoral?

Big out of control government good, controlled government with no waste bad. stick with the program intense.

I am So Sorry!! You have Never been More Right!!! Thank You So Kindly for pointing out my failings!!!

Glad I could set the progressive record striaght again, they were becoming restless and start holding their breath.

All is well in progressivedom

 

[editec]

Peers of the realm once argued that without them OWNING EVERYTHING society would collapse.

CApitalism is based on the assumption that laborers must be paid less than they produce so that capital can be concentrated for future projects.

And that is a good economic system when the economy is CLOSED.

But when that capital can migrate to other economies, then the basic concept of how this system works is flawed.

And that is what is happening to this nation right now.

 

[georgephillip]

Do you honestly think Henry Paulson and Franklin Raines earned their money?

George, you're missing the point. No one's really denying that there are corrupt assholes making a lots of money. The OP proposed that income on investments was 'unearned', and went on to insinuate it was undeserved, painting the usual caricatures of rich capitalists at leeches on society, extracting wealth and not contributing anything. That's what some of us here are rejecting. Not that fact that plenty of rich people are crooked bastards.

Would you agree with the statement over the last four decades Republicans AND Democrats in congress have shifted the burden of taxation from unearned income to earned income?

 

[dblack]

Would you agree with the statement over the last four decades Republicans AND Democrats in congress have shifted the burden of taxation from unearned income to earned income?

Yes, the government now uses the tax code as a projection of power - as both a carrot, to reward friends, and a stick, to punish detractors. We need to end this practice and return to taxation as a 'color-blind' vehicle for funding government, rather than a political tool.

 

[Wiseacre]

Would you agree with the statement over the last four decades Republicans AND Democrats in congress have shifted the burden of taxation from unearned income to earned income?

Yes, the government now uses the tax code as a projection of power - as both a carrot, to reward friends, and a stick, to punish detractors. We need to end this practice and return to taxation as a 'color-blind' vehicle for funding government, rather than a political tool.

Can't argue with that.

 

[ShackledNation]

Peers of the realm once argued that without them OWNING EVERYTHING society would collapse.

CApitalism is based on the assumption that laborers must be paid less than they produce so that capital can be concentrated for future projects.

And that is a good economic system when the economy is CLOSED.

But when that capital can migrate to other economies, then the basic concept of how this system works is flawed.

And that is what is happening to this nation right now.

Wrong. Laborers are not paid less than they produce, nor does capitalism have that assumption. Laborers are not paid for what they produce. They are paid for their services. The labor theory of value is incorrect. Final goods are valued by individuals in society, and supply and demand of these goods determine their market price. The wage is simply another price, the price of offering a service. Laborers are paid less than the price of a final good. Otherwise there would be no point in hiring laborers.

Trade with different countries is no different than trade with different states. The system before capitalism was mercantilism, based on the same fallacies that anti-free traders are using today. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.