Do We Need A 'Conversation' About Race?

[Wry Catcher]

So, the instructor says, go ahead, take a cookie....they're delicious. Just try one...go ahead. So you reach out to pinch just one little cookie from the pile and as you do, BAM! He slaps your hand!

And that, friends, is the state of the 'conversation' about race in America today.




The racist AG Holder claims that Americans are too cowardly to bring the subject to the floor... but as soon as one attempts it, takes the bait, Holder slaps your hand with "Holder sees 'racial animus' in opposition"
Holder sees 'racial animus' in opposition | TheHill





Which brings me to John McWhorter. "John Hamilton McWhorter V (born 1965) is an American linguist and political commentator. He is the author of a number of books on language and on race relations."
John McWhorter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


1. In his usual well-considered prose, McWhorter discusses the difficult subject as "in fact, indicative of a certain psychic roadblock in enlightened black thought of late.

2. Theodore R. Johnson III, writing on NPR’s blog to tell us that when we hear an ice cream truck play “Turkey in the Straw,” we must understand that the tune has racist origins..... because ice cream parlors played minstrel songs in the nineteenth century, people in the 1920s and 1930s would have associated “Turkey in the Straw” with its unsavory alternate versions. In response to Johnson, I wrote that by the time those trucks existed, people thought of the tune as simply “Turkey in the Straw,” a song about the farm. No evidence exists that ice cream parlors were ever sites uniquely associated with racist music.

3. ... it is here that we encounter the psychic roadblock I referred to above. For Johnson, the main thing is that somehow, some way, we must “acknowledge” the racist history of that ice cream jingle—even if it requires bending over backward regarding the facts.





4. It’s revealing that Johnson is so deeply committed to showing that there is something racist about ice cream jingles—it tips us off that Johnson is ultimately talking about something much bigger than ice cream. His intent becomes clear in his final observation—that ice cream trucks have played other tunes with minstrel histories, such as the Stephen Foster chestnuts “Oh, Susanna” and “Camptown Races.”

5. No doubt, those tunes were racist in their original incarnations, with their dusting of “Negro” dialect and more (some of the lyrics to “Oh Susanna,” now unsung, show how sick America was at the time). But those songs were written back in the Gilded Age. As time passed, they seeped into America’s pop fabric as faceless little ditties. Almost no one learning “Camptown Races” (doo da, doo da) at camp, or while taking elementary piano lessons, has any idea that the song began as a black-oriented tune.

a. Or, think of what the expression “that sucks” really means—and note that, today, we never do.




6. But the question is how much we need to “consider,” eternally, the history of things .... Your average person is thinking about getting a popsicle or cone. Johnson wants us to stop, mid-lick, and “consider” that 130 years ago, people would have heard that tune and been as likely to associate it with its “Zip Coon” lyric as the “Turkey” one.

7. Johnson’s position is akin to Ta-Nehisi Coates’s in his Atlantic piece, “The Case for Reparations,” which was greeted with something approaching religious rapture in certain corners. Just as Johnson suggests ... Coates wants us to enlighten the person “scarfing their hot dogs on the Fourth of July while denying the facts of our heritage.” He wants an America where our racist history is not just something taught in school and commemorated in museums and Oscar-winning films and hit plays, as it currently is. To Coates, none of that is enough; America remains a country that “turns away” from acknowledging racism.

8. .... classifies critics of his first article as the sorts who “don’t get it,” who “don’t want to talk about race.” Coates seems to want America’s racist past to constitute an eternal, gnawing background awareness for all citizens,..."
The Case For Moving On by John H. McWhorter, City Journal 11 July 2014






McWhorter is warning us about individuals who wear their skin color as though it is a suppurating wound that never gets better, and never will.....yet the closest they've come to oppression is picking cotton out of an aspirin bottle.

McWhorter is a wise man....far wiser than the Holder's who aim to keep a wedge between the people of this nation.

We need a conversation about racism. [Note it does not exist in very early childhood]

Study: Babies Show Racial Bias

Study: Babies Show Racial Bias « CBS Seattle

A bias is not racism; "“Racism connotes hostility,” she said, “and that’s not what we studied."

 

[dilloduck]

The people who are getting hurt the most by the race card meme are blacks themselves. I learned everything about race I needed to through a great intellectual black man. I'm sure you've read one or more, of Thomas Sowell's excellent books which puts it all into perspective. The race card is used by politicians for political gain, only. Blacks were better off before Affirmative Action.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7JYLb0XPA8

Yeah...

If someone disagrees with your ilk...you claim they are using the race card. If someone challenges an opinion of your ilk, you call them a racist. If your ilk calls someone a ******...you give them high fives.

Don't give me this nonsense about honest discussions about race. You people use the reverse race card every time so you can say what you please and censor your opposition.

This is absolutely true: "You people use the reverse race card every time so you can say what you please and censor your opposition."

AHHH the dreaded REVERSE race card

 

[dilloduck]

We need a conversation about racism. [Note it does not exist in very early childhood]

Study: Babies Show Racial Bias

Study: Babies Show Racial Bias « CBS Seattle

A bias is not racism; "“Racism connotes hostility,” she said, “and that’s not what we studied."

Are you trying to claim that racism doesn't begin with the recognition that the races are different ?

 

[Nutz]

Yeah...

If someone disagrees with your ilk...you claim they are using the race card. If someone challenges an opinion of your ilk, you call them a racist. If your ilk calls someone a ******...you give them high fives.

Don't give me this nonsense about honest discussions about race. You people use the reverse race card every time so you can say what you please and censor your opposition.

This is absolutely true: "You people use the reverse race card every time so you can say what you please and censor your opposition."

AHHH the dreaded REVERSE race card

Yeah....equally as dreaded as the magical race card your ilk claims is being used if someone dares disagree with you.

 

[PoliticalChic]

^^What does that mean?

Stand back fool---this thread is way over your head if you can't figure that out.

Does that mean he has a chip on his shoulder, political chic. Is that race baiting?

I see you don't equally apply your arrogance.

My aim is to provide John McWhorter's position, that any conversation is meaningless.

I whole-heartedly agree with same.


The demand is simply to fuel the kind of anger that you've revealed.


Although extraneous, I should point out that McWhorter is not white...nor conservative.

He is clear simply level headed.

 

[Nutz]

Study: Babies Show Racial Bias « CBS Seattle

A bias is not racism; "“Racism connotes hostility,” she said, “and that’s not what we studied."

Are you trying to claim that racism doesn't begin with the recognition that the races are different ?

He quoted YOUR article.

 

[Nutz]

Stand back fool---this thread is way over your head if you can't figure that out.

Does that mean he has a chip on his shoulder, political chic. Is that race baiting?

I see you don't equally apply your arrogance.

My aim is to provide John McWhorter's position, that any conversation is meaningless.

I whole-heartedly agree with same.


The demand is simply to fuel the kind of anger that you've revealed.


Although extraneous, I should point out that McWhorter is not white...nor conservative.

He is clear simply level headed.

What anger? Race baiting again, trying to attribute an emotion to words on a screen in an order to gain some sort of upper edge? That is pretty pathetic. Typical teaper deception.

 

[dilloduck]

A bias is not racism; "“Racism connotes hostility,” she said, “and that’s not what we studied."

Are you trying to claim that racism doesn't begin with the recognition that the races are different ?

He quoted YOUR article.

so ? I 'm still asking the question

 

[Mad Scientist]

A Conversation? Sure!

But Liberals don't want a Conversation, they're afraid they can't back up their thoughts and ideas. They're afraid they will loose in the "Arena of Public Ideas".

They would much rather Lecture us and Shame us into "going along to get along" with their Politically Correct Language Police and Hate Laws designed to get everyone to cower down, shut up and submit.

 

[Nutz]

Are you trying to claim that racism doesn't begin with the recognition that the races are different ?

He quoted YOUR article.

so ? I 'm still asking the question

It is YOUR article. It is YOUR argument that YOU presented.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Yeah...

If someone disagrees with your ilk...you claim they are using the race card. If someone challenges an opinion of your ilk, you call them a racist. If your ilk calls someone a ******...you give them high fives.

Don't give me this nonsense about honest discussions about race. You people use the reverse race card every time so you can say what you please and censor your opposition.

This is absolutely true: "You people use the reverse race card every time so you can say what you please and censor your opposition."

AHHH the dreaded REVERSE race card

It's not the verbiage I would use, but it conveys a very real truth! The right wing in America is fundamentally dishonest, and attributes what they believe and how they act onto others. It is the argument of children, "I know you are, but what am I".

I answered that above: Dishonest!

 

[Nutz]

A Conversation? Sure!

But Liberals don't want a Conversation, they're afraid they can't back up their thoughts and ideas. They're afraid they will loose in the "Arena of Public Ideas".

They would much rather Lecture us and Shame us into "going along to get along" with their Politically Correct Language Police and Hate Laws designed to get everyone to cower down, shut up and submit.

There you go...just as discussed. PC, are you gonna accuse MS of being angry? Or does that only count if the person you are trying to lecture is black.

Sorry MS, you just came in with your comment at the right time.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Does that mean he has a chip on his shoulder, political chic. Is that race baiting?

I see you don't equally apply your arrogance.

My aim is to provide John McWhorter's position, that any conversation is meaningless.

I whole-heartedly agree with same.


The demand is simply to fuel the kind of anger that you've revealed.


Although extraneous, I should point out that McWhorter is not white...nor conservative.

He is clear simply level headed.

What anger? Race baiting again, trying to attribute an emotion to words on a screen in an order to gain some sort of upper edge? That is pretty pathetic. Typical teaper deception.

When you calm down, re-read your posts and you will see the hostility.

 

[dilloduck]

Nutz just sees this thread as another opportunity to use his silly "Teaper" word as often as he can.

 

[Nutz]

My aim is to provide John McWhorter's position, that any conversation is meaningless.

I whole-heartedly agree with same.


The demand is simply to fuel the kind of anger that you've revealed.


Although extraneous, I should point out that McWhorter is not white...nor conservative.

He is clear simply level headed.

What anger? Race baiting again, trying to attribute an emotion to words on a screen in an order to gain some sort of upper edge? That is pretty pathetic. Typical teaper deception.

When you calm down, re-read your posts and you will see the hostility.

There is no hostility. You can pretend all you want...just proves my point about how your ilk wants honest discussion.

 

[PoliticalChic]

9. " The typical statement in this vein is, “America needs to have a conversation about race,” now a keystone of educated black discourse. Is the proposal about reality? Who seriously thinks any amount of argument about “collective responsibility” could ever convince today’s diverse American populace that it owes black people for slavery and Jim Crow?

.... if we all know it wouldn’t change anything, then what is the goal of having the conversation?



10. As Jason Riley’s Please Stop Helping Us points out, our nation’s record of helping black people become significantly less poor is not encouraging. And it’s not because malevolent forces have prevented the pursuit of obvious solutions.

“More programs,” some advocates say. Perhaps. ....Programs doing what, based on what track record? And as such, the key question is: how would Americans’ knowing more about their racist past make those programs more efficient or successful?"
The Case For Moving On by John H. McWhorter, City Journal 11 July 2014

 

[Wry Catcher]

A Conversation? Sure!

But Liberals don't want a Conversation, they're afraid they can't back up their thoughts and ideas. They're afraid they will loose in the "Arena of Public Ideas".

They would much rather Lecture us and Shame us into "going along to get along" with their Politically Correct Language Police and Hate Laws designed to get everyone to cower down, shut up and submit.

You're full of shit! All liberals do not think alike, your post is an example of what is most common in those on the right, parroting the company line. If any set of individuals can't back up their thought and ideas it is those on the right, simply because their thoughts and ideas are not their own.

 

[dilloduck]

9. " The typical statement in this vein is, “America needs to have a conversation about race,” now a keystone of educated black discourse. Is the proposal about reality? Who seriously thinks any amount of argument about “collective responsibility” could ever convince today’s diverse American populace that it owes black people for slavery and Jim Crow?

.... if we all know it wouldn’t change anything, then what is the goal of having the conversation?



10. As Jason Riley’s Please Stop Helping Us points out, our nation’s record of helping black people become significantly less poor is not encouraging. And it’s not because malevolent forces have prevented the pursuit of obvious solutions.

“More programs,” some advocates say. Perhaps. ....Programs doing what, based on what track record? And as such, the key question is: how would Americans’ knowing more about their racist past make those programs more efficient or successful?"
The Case For Moving On by John H. McWhorter, City Journal 11 July 2014

It's a fair point. What is the goal of having a discussion about racism ?

 

[Nutz]

9. " The typical statement in this vein is, “America needs to have a conversation about race,” now a keystone of educated black discourse. Is the proposal about reality? Who seriously thinks any amount of argument about “collective responsibility” could ever convince today’s diverse American populace that it owes black people for slavery and Jim Crow?

.... if we all know it wouldn’t change anything, then what is the goal of having the conversation?



10. As Jason Riley’s Please Stop Helping Us points out, our nation’s record of helping black people become significantly less poor is not encouraging. And it’s not because malevolent forces have prevented the pursuit of obvious solutions.

“More programs,” some advocates say. Perhaps. ....Programs doing what, based on what track record? And as such, the key question is: how would Americans’ knowing more about their racist past make those programs more efficient or successful?"
The Case For Moving On by John H. McWhorter, City Journal 11 July 2014

The malevolent forces are the forces that prevent honest discussions.

 

[dilloduck]

9. " The typical statement in this vein is, “America needs to have a conversation about race,” now a keystone of educated black discourse. Is the proposal about reality? Who seriously thinks any amount of argument about “collective responsibility” could ever convince today’s diverse American populace that it owes black people for slavery and Jim Crow?

.... if we all know it wouldn’t change anything, then what is the goal of having the conversation?



10. As Jason Riley’s Please Stop Helping Us points out, our nation’s record of helping black people become significantly less poor is not encouraging. And it’s not because malevolent forces have prevented the pursuit of obvious solutions.

“More programs,” some advocates say. Perhaps. ....Programs doing what, based on what track record? And as such, the key question is: how would Americans’ knowing more about their racist past make those programs more efficient or successful?"
The Case For Moving On by John H. McWhorter, City Journal 11 July 2014

The malevolent forces are the forces that prevent honest discussions.

lay it on us-----what is the goal in having an honest discussion about racism ?