Do you agree with the following statement? Only "work" can create wealth.

[there4eyeM]

It seems we cannot even define what "wealth" is.

It has been defined. It can have a specific meaning. Arguing that it means something else is arguing for arguing's sake.

 

[there4eyeM]

But you had to work to get the dollar for the ticket.....I don't think that the lottery takes EBT....Yet.

But even if the dollar was given to you by grandma on your B-Day or the taxpayer someone had to work for it.

That dollar is what someone received for creating wealth. It represents the time and effort. With it, one can buy the fruits of labor, the wealth that work created.

 

[MarathonMike]

But you had to work to get the dollar for the ticket.....I don't think that the lottery takes EBT....Yet.

But even if the dollar was given to you by grandma on your B-Day or the taxpayer someone had to work for it.

Not really. You could of found the dollar laying on the ground.

 

[MarathonMike]

Clearly, many who speak do not understand.
Creating money is not creating "wealth". Creating wealth means building structures, producing goods, providing services, educating in order to learn how to create goods, products and services. Investment can lead to wealth creation. When it simply results in accumulating money, no "wealth" has been created. Money alone is good for nothing. There must be an interest on the part of others for money to be able to do anything.
Confusion arises when possessing money and things and being "wealthy" is conflated with the true sense of wealth creation.

Robert G Allen wrote a great book years ago called "Creating Wealth" that is all about building individual net worth.

 

[progressive hunter]

As I put it in the OP "A plant growing using solar energy represents work by the plant".
Spanish didn't find "loads of gold" they stole it. Regardless someone had to "work" to get that gold.
Only work creates wealth that doesn't mean you have to be the one doing the work. Planation owners got rich because slaves did the work.

plantation owners didnt get rich,, read some history,,

 

[progressive hunter]

But you had to work to get the dollar for the ticket.....I don't think that the lottery takes EBT....Yet.

But even if the dollar was given to you by grandma on your B-Day or the taxpayer someone had to work for it.

depends on how far back you go,, if you go back to the true creation of the dollar the government didnt work to create it,,

 

[MarathonMike]

The ticket would grant you money. You still need someone or something to produce the actual wealth. A person with two coconuts and two fish in a desert island is wealthier than one with two pounds of gold.

I think what you are talking about is the "origin" of wealth which is a more complex subject. It requires the physical work of extracting/creating the valued product AND a monetary system that is globally recognized AND other people that desire the product you originated. As I posted in this thread, "Creating Wealth" is an accepted term for building individual net worth through real estate, stocks, etc.

 

[1srelluc]

depends on how far back you go,, if you go back to the true creation of the dollar the government didnt work to create it,,

Nope, the US dollar's creation has nothing to do with it as it was already in use as the Spanish silver dollar. They just converted it when they started minting US coins.

The history of the United States dollar began with moves by the Founding Fathers of the United States of America to establish a national currency based on the Spanish silver dollar, which had been in use in the North American colonies of the Kingdom of Great Britain for over 100 years prior to the United States Declaration of Independence.

In fact there was such a shortage of US coins for years that Spanish dollars were being used well into the mid-1800s with a Spanish dollar even being cut into four pieces, thus making a quarter.

 

[1srelluc]

Not really. You could of found the dollar laying on the ground.

It was worked for at some point in it's existence.

But if you could direct me to the nearest dollar bush I'll go pick some....But hell the mere act of driving to and picking would be work.....My time isn't free.

 

[Mexicano]

Well, if we go at it, then the Sun has to work, and without the Sun there's no life....

A pretty pointless argument, but some people like pointless arguments. I don't. So I'm out.

That is correct : no life would exist on Earth without the Sun ( or if we were closer to it). It is a source of energy : all the wealth we have is thanks to the Sun.

 

[Mexicano]

I suggest trying this formula;
(HE x T) + R = W

HE = Human Energy. We could consider this what you want to call "work". But it also includes vision, planning, organizing as well as Labor in various forms.

T = Tools. This can include a large range of items and concepts. Knowledge and Skills to start with, and the schools and institutions for learning such. Basic implements such as saws and hammers, picks and shovels, etc. Then "power" from animal strength/labor to water/wind mills, to coal plants, smelters, dams with hydro-electric generators, etc. Transportation systems such animal drawn plows and wagons to motor vehicles to steamships to airplanes, trucks, trains, etc. Along with smelters, refineries, there are factories, markets and even financial systems such as banks and stock exchanges (investment systems for 'capital').

R = Resources. Mostly natural mineral and metal-ores. Also includes the soil for agriculture and the Foods it produces, and seas and oceans for marine fisheries. Trees for lumber and other wood products, oil wells for petroleum, mines for mineral and metal ores. Basically the materials needed to be crafted into "Goods", physical items.

W = Wealth. Goods and/or Services with Market Value. The end result of Production Efforts.

(Human Energy times(x) Tools) plus(+) Resources equals(=) Wealth
(HE x T) + R = W

I think you still have to add non-human energy : machines also create goods ( and provide some services like the internet) .
In fact in an industrial nation most of the wealth is created by machines.

And that points towards the problem of switching to green energy: the energy output will be the same , but we need to create goods with a complex supply chain ( wind turbines, solar panels, energy storage) in order to maintain the energy output at the same level.

 

[task0778]

I'm a bit late to the party, but I'll chime in anyway: the word "work" probably needs to be more clearly defined. Ever hear the phrase about putting your money to work? If you are investing in anything, are you working? And then there's this, whose work are we talking about? I might be doing nothing while someone else is doing work that increases my wealth.

 

[Flash]

There are ways to create wealth with no work involved. Buying a winning lottery ticket for example.

Ways to get wealth:

1. Earn it
2. Steal it
3. Inherit it
4. Luck into it like winning on a lottery ticket

 

[Mexicano]

Wealth is net worth.

That is all it has ever been.

Clearly not. Greeks understood that and crafted the legend of King Midas whose touch could turn anything into gold.

 

[Blues Man]

Clearly not. Greeks understood that and crafted the legend of King Midas whose touch could turn anything into gold.

The Midas fable was a cautionary tale about greed.

it had nothing to do with creating wealth.

 

[Mexicano]

I'm a bit late to the party, but I'll chime in anyway: the word "work" probably needs to be more clearly defined. Ever hear the phrase about putting your money to work? If you are investing in anything, are you working? And then there's this, whose work are we talking about? I might be doing nothing while someone else is doing work that increases my wealth.

I gave a clear definition in the OP:

Here I am using the work as understood by "physics". A plant growing using solar energy represents work by the plant, an animal pulling a cart is also work, so is regular labor and machines using any source of energy to operate.
... and not, if you are investing in something you are not working ( unless you are actually managing the company) , someone else is doing the work on your behalf.
If you had no workers and no "fuel" you would not be able to create any wealth. This is an important notion from a national security perspective: you need to maintain a supply of labour and energy in order to have a stable economy.An army without fuel and manpower is as good as dead no matter how much money it has been invested on it.

 

[MarathonMike]

I'm a bit late to the party, but I'll chime in anyway: the word "work" probably needs to be more clearly defined. Ever hear the phrase about putting your money to work? If you are investing in anything, are you working? And then there's this, whose work are we talking about? I might be doing nothing while someone else is doing work that increases my wealth.

The entire thread is poorly defined. Create vs Build vs Originate. What is "work"? What is "wealth"?

 

[MarathonMike]

I gave a clear definition in the OP:

Here I am using the work as understood by "physics". A plant growing using solar energy represents work by the plant, an animal pulling a cart is also work, so is regular labor and machines using any source of energy to operate.
... and not, if you are investing in something you are not working ( unless you are actually managing the company) , someone else is doing the work on your behalf.
If you had no workers and no "fuel" you would not be able to create any wealth. This is an important notion from a national security perspective: you need to maintain a supply of labour and energy in order to have a stable economy.An army without fuel and manpower is as good as dead no matter how much money it has been invested on it.

Again you are hung up on semantics. Creating Wealth is a widely accepted term for increasing individual net worth through various means such as stocks, real estate, etc. The gold miner who extracts fine gold from tons of dirt creates a million dollars of net worth through your definition of "work". A coin trader makes a million dollars buying and selling gold coins. Both created wealth.

 

[Mexicano]

I think what you are talking about is the "origin" of wealth which is a more complex subject. It requires the physical work of extracting/creating the valued product AND a monetary system that is globally recognized AND other people that desire the product you originated. As I posted in this thread, "Creating Wealth" is an accepted term for building individual net worth through real estate, stocks, etc.

You don't need the monetary system to be globally recognized, although it helps.
Have you ever heard about King Midas' golden touch?
Ahhh and fugazzi...

 

[Blues Man]

If you want to read a book about creating wealth then read
The Richest Man in Babylon.

Stop erroneously using the King Midas fable as a story about creating wealth.