Do you think it would be Unconstitutional if

[WorldWatcher]

Yes, it would be legal for the federal government to do that.

Which then leads into the question, if the federal government can require a person (corporations are considered "people" under the law) to buy health insurance for someone else, why can it not require a person to buy health insurance for themselves.

I don't believe that the government requires companies to buy health insurance for someone else.

The company may be required to offer health insurance, I don't believe they have to buy it though. The insurance company could say "OK ACME Manufacturing" you have 2000 employees and we can offer you an HMO plan at $1500 a month for each person that chooses to enroll."


1. The choice to purchase the insurance rests with the employee.

2. The company could charge the entire $1500 to the employee.



I could be wrong through, so any supported correction would be welcome.



>>

 

[jillian]

.

Um, the triage nurse in the ER demanding proof of insurance while a patient is dying/bleeding to death is going to lose her registration with the board of nursing.

Someone bleeding to death is a true emergency, while someone with a cold is not.

triage.

people without health insurance use emergency rooms as their primary care. it's one of the excessive costs that the health care legislation is supposed to alleviate.

but why would we actually want to discuss that when we can just yell and scream and call it obamacare?

 

[syrenn]

Um, the triage nurse in the ER demanding proof of insurance while a patient is dying/bleeding to death is going to lose her registration with the board of nursing.

Someone bleeding to death is a true emergency, while someone with a cold is not.

triage.

What about the uninsured woman with the lump in her breast? What about the guy with stroke level blood pressure that could be controlled with blood pressure medication he can't afford?

They're not true emergencies either, just ticking time bombs that in the long run will cost the government more money in medicaid payments because early intervention was unavailable. When that guy strokes out and has paralysis in half his body, he will be in a long term care facility for years. Oh, and for arguments sake, lets just say both patients also don't have cable tv or a fancy cell phone.

In my opinion a woman with a lump in her breas is not an ER problem and she should be turned away. If the man has not had a stroke then he is also not an ER problem and should be turned away.

Triage.

 

[jillian]

Someone bleeding to death is a true emergency, while someone with a cold is not.

triage.

What about the uninsured woman with the lump in her breast? What about the guy with stroke level blood pressure that could be controlled with blood pressure medication he can't afford?

They're not true emergencies either, just ticking time bombs that in the long run will cost the government more money in medicaid payments because early intervention was unavailable. When that guy strokes out and has paralysis in half his body, he will be in a long term care facility for years. Oh, and for arguments sake, lets just say both patients also don't have cable tv or a fancy cell phone.

In my opinion a woman with a lump in her breas is not an ER problem and she should be turned away. If the man has not had a stroke then he is also not an ER problem and should be turned away.

Triage.

and let her die of cancer because she's uninsured?

let him have a stroke because we're too stupid to do early intervention and well care?

 

[Two Thumbs]

What about the uninsured woman with the lump in her breast? What about the guy with stroke level blood pressure that could be controlled with blood pressure medication he can't afford?

They're not true emergencies either, just ticking time bombs that in the long run will cost the government more money in medicaid payments because early intervention was unavailable. When that guy strokes out and has paralysis in half his body, he will be in a long term care facility for years. Oh, and for arguments sake, lets just say both patients also don't have cable tv or a fancy cell phone.

In my opinion a woman with a lump in her breas is not an ER problem and she should be turned away. If the man has not had a stroke then he is also not an ER problem and should be turned away.

Triage.

and let her die of cancer because she's uninsured?

let him have a stroke because we're too stupid to do early intervention and well care?

So who do we take money from to pay for that? And do it in a non-discriminatory fashion?

 

[syrenn]

Um, the triage nurse in the ER demanding proof of insurance while a patient is dying/bleeding to death is going to lose her registration with the board of nursing.

Someone bleeding to death is a true emergency, while someone with a cold is not.

triage.

people without health insurance use emergency rooms as their primary care. it's one of the excessive costs that the health care legislation is supposed to alleviate.

but why would we actually want to discuss that when we can just yell and scream and call it obamacare?

I agree that many use the ER as a primary care facility. The best way to stop this is to start turning away anything that is not an emergency. Stop forcing ER's to take anything that walks in the doors. This has nothing to do with obamacare.

If what walks in the door is not an emergency, they need to be refereed away and take their problem to a clinic.

 

[Cecilie1200]

I also think that pre-payment or proof of insurance should be provided prior to receiving medical care.

If you've ever noticed, when you go to the doctor's office one of the first things they do is ask you about insurance.

And if you don't have any, you then go talk to their accounts manager, who arranges a payment plan for you.

Pre-pay for services is a matter for the individual business to decide, but would generally be contrary to normal business practices.

Depends on the business and the circumstances.

You pay the mechanic after he fixes the car. You pay the dry cleaning bill after your clothes are cleaned.

Actually, my dry cleaner charges you when you drop the clothes off. It's not like he can't see what you're bringing in and figure out what it's going to cost.

You pay the barber after he's cut your hair.

Yeah, but I pay my manicurist BEFORE she does my nails, because afterward would mess them up.

You pay the taxi driver after you've reached your destination.

Only because you don't know how much it's going to cost until the ride is over. And if you're going a long way, most cab drivers will insist on an initial payment up front before the cab ever moves.

Also, my cable company and some communications companies charge their clients at the beginning of the month for the service for that month. If you then have a problem with the service, they credit the NEXT month for it. The guy who came to install our new water heater insisted on half-payment up front, because he's gotten stiffed by a lot of customers in the past. (Sound familiar?) I know plumbers and electricians who do the same thing.

When it comes to emergency care, addressing payment before hand is often not feasible. If you were having a heart attack, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want to have your treatment delayed so that you can fill out paper work put down a down payment.

If you're having a heart attack, YOU aren't filling out your paperwork. Your family is.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Um, the triage nurse in the ER demanding proof of insurance while a patient is dying/bleeding to death is going to lose her registration with the board of nursing.

Someone bleeding to death is a true emergency, while someone with a cold is not.

triage.

What about the uninsured woman with the lump in her breast? What about the guy with stroke level blood pressure that could be controlled with blood pressure medication he can't afford?

They're not true emergencies either, just ticking time bombs that in the long run will cost the government more money in medicaid payments because early intervention was unavailable. When that guy strokes out and has paralysis in half his body, he will be in a long term care facility for years. Oh, and for arguments sake, lets just say both patients also don't have cable tv or a fancy cell phone.

Why would a woman with a lump in her breast be in an emergency room? Or a guy with high blood pressure, for that matter?

 

[gekaap]

Someone bleeding to death is a true emergency, while someone with a cold is not.

triage.

Which is why someone with non life threatening conditions in the ER can have their treatment momentarily delayed while basic information is collected.

 

[Two Thumbs]

This shit pisses me off to no fucking end.

I'm working poor and I don't want anymore of the governments help. Thier "help" sucks ass, and teaches people that they are the only way to fucking go.

Everyshittything I have is MINE. No benevolent Fed gave me jack shit and I sure as hell don't need the governement telling me I need them to pay my medical bills, I can, have and will make arrangements to pay MY debt.

Keep youfucking hand outs to your fucking selves.

 

[draper]

If what walks in the door is not an emergency, they need to be refereed away and take their problem to a clinic. [/COLOR]

Yes, but the reason they don't go to clinics is because the clinics will not see them without insurance.

 

[gekaap]

Why would a woman with a lump in her breast be in an emergency room? Or a guy with high blood pressure, for that matter?

Well, I'm not quite sure what a woman with a lump in her breast would be hoping for. But if a man with blood pressure issues noticed that he maybe didn't feel quite right and thus took his BP, and noticed it was high even after he'd taken as much of his medication as he could safely take, wouldn't you think it a good idea to seek immediate medical attention? And if it's 8:00 pm you're not likely to find many primary care providers open.

 

[syrenn]

Someone bleeding to death is a true emergency, while someone with a cold is not.

triage.

Which is why someone with non life threatening conditions in the ER can have their treatment momentarily delayed while basic information is collected.

That was my point. These people are not life and death cases. Triage nurses will make them wait. In that time you can ask them for information.

 

[syrenn]

If what walks in the door is not an emergency, they need to be refereed away and take their problem to a clinic. [/COLOR]

Yes, but the reason they don't go to clinics is because the clinics will not see them without insurance.

That is not the ER's problem now is it? (and by extension, mine)

 

[Cecilie1200]

If what walks in the door is not an emergency, they need to be refereed away and take their problem to a clinic. [/COLOR]

Yes, but the reason they don't go to clinics is because the clinics will not see them without insurance.

Ever hear of a free or reduced clinic? Run by charitable organizations? My city has them, and I'm pretty sure most large cities do.

 

[syrenn]

Why would a woman with a lump in her breast be in an emergency room? Or a guy with high blood pressure, for that matter?

Well, I'm not quite sure what a woman with a lump in her breast would be hoping for. But if a man with blood pressure issues noticed that he maybe didn't feel quite right and thus took his BP, and noticed it was high even after he'd taken as much of his medication as he could safely take, wouldn't you think it a good idea to seek immediate medical attention? And if it's 8:00 pm you're not likely to find many primary care providers open.

He still is not an emergency at that point.

 

[syrenn]

If what walks in the door is not an emergency, they need to be refereed away and take their problem to a clinic. [/COLOR]

Yes, but the reason they don't go to clinics is because the clinics will not see them without insurance.

Ever hear of a free or reduced clinic? Run by charitable organizations? My city has them, and I'm pretty sure most large cities do.

SF has them all over the city. And they still show up at the ER's

Its called lazy.

 

[syrenn]

Why would a woman with a lump in her breast be in an emergency room? Or a guy with high blood pressure, for that matter?

Well, I'm not quite sure what a woman with a lump in her breast would be hoping for. But if a man with blood pressure issues noticed that he maybe didn't feel quite right and thus took his BP, and noticed it was high even after he'd taken as much of his medication as he could safely take, wouldn't you think it a good idea to seek immediate medical attention? And if it's 8:00 pm you're not likely to find many primary care providers open.

So tell me, what do you want the ER to do for this guy?

 

[Two Thumbs]

If what walks in the door is not an emergency, they need to be refereed away and take their problem to a clinic. [/COLOR]

Yes, but the reason they don't go to clinics is because the clinics will not see them without insurance.

horseshit

Clinics take anyone hoping you have insurance. Krist the one here will help sign you up for assistance and help you with charities.

 

[draper]

If what walks in the door is not an emergency, they need to be refereed away and take their problem to a clinic. [/COLOR]

Yes, but the reason they don't go to clinics is because the clinics will not see them without insurance.

That is not the ER's problem now is it? (and by extension, mine)

No, it's a societal problem.

You know, if a really contagious nasty epidemic ever were to hit America, you might find health care is a problem that affects us all.

For these reasons we already pay taxes that pay for the other two emergency services.