Do You Think The Fast & Furious Scandal Is Worse Than Watergate Scandal?

[BlindBoo]

If there is a war on drugs and you support drugs to be free wouldn't you be a traitor to your country by giving aid and comfort to the enemy?

I don't support "drugs to be free" what ever that means.

I do however support comercialization and taxation of more recreational substances. Some of which are a vital source of revenue for the Cartels/Mexican-Mobsters.

Support your local growers, buy Homegrown.

I guess thats what we need more high assholes acting like adults.....Of course real adults dont get high.

That's right they head for the bar or liquior store.

What we really really need is more holier than thou assholes...........

 

[Uncensored2008]

That's right they head for the bar or liquior store.

What we really really need is more holier than thou assholes...........

Or more people covering for Holder..

 

[regent]

I would suspect that Watergate is the biggest scandal in our history with Harding's multiple scandals now in second place.

 

[thanatos144]

Man some people really only care about pot and fake climate change.

 

[GuyPinestra]

Man some people really only care about pot and fake climate change.

I'm not too concerned about climate change, the weather has gone back and forth for eons.

I am concerned however, that we can spend billions of dollars and thousands of lives enriching criminals by the prohibition of a harmless plant. The hundreds of thousands of Americans that have been incarcerated and the billions of dollars in profits for the prison slavery industry should illustrate clearly the need to rethink our marijuana laws.

 

[bobgnote]

Man some people really only care about pot and fake climate change.

Here's a swell story, theanus:

The parts of the body all decided to elect a BOSS. They all made a case, for which part should control the entire body. The hands were needed, to grab. The genitals were needed, to fuck. The knees were needed, to knock around.

But the BRAIN had a really good pitch, to get elected. So the other parts elected the brain, to be boss. But the ASSHOLE wasn't having any of it. The asshole stopped up and wouldn't shit.

So the brain fogged up. The eyes couldn't see straight. The gnads wouldn't shag. The knees were too weak, to support a stand. So the election was voided, and the ASSHOLE declared itself the BOSS.

Do you see how you think, theanus? You may be full of shit, or you may have shit, hanging from you, but you cannot think, for shit.

Stupid, Florida will try to swim, one day, and it won't keep up, with Phelps. It's a nice place, to visit, but climate change will claim Stupid and dozens of places, like Stupid, only different. Like shit, if you ask me, since I know damn well theanus is an ASSHOLE.

 

[idb]

Obamabots/Dems just don't care about all those brutally murdered with Holder's guns. And that says everything you need to know about them. 'Party before Country.' They're a real disgrace.

Try researching before simply regurgitating the MSM line.
It looks like the guns were legally purchased and the ATF had no ability to stop it.
Look to all politicians and special interest groups that allowed this to happen - forget which party they belong to.
Then, the way that both sides have acted since the operation became public news.
It's a total scandal and reflects the worst aspects of the US political system.

The part you're missing is that the gun shop owners tried to STOP the sales, they knew something was wrong, and the ATF FORCED them to go through with the sales anyway.

Had the ATF allowed the gun shops to FOLLOW EXISTING LAW, those sales would never have happened!

The ATF were powerless to prevent the sales.
The EXISTING LAW prevents the agency from stopping them.
Are you sure that the ATF forced them to go through with the sales, or that they told the gun shops that they couldn't do anything?

 

[Full-Auto]

Try researching before simply regurgitating the MSM line.
It looks like the guns were legally purchased and the ATF had no ability to stop it.
Look to all politicians and special interest groups that allowed this to happen - forget which party they belong to.
Then, the way that both sides have acted since the operation became public news.
It's a total scandal and reflects the worst aspects of the US political system.

The part you're missing is that the gun shop owners tried to STOP the sales, they knew something was wrong, and the ATF FORCED them to go through with the sales anyway.

Had the ATF allowed the gun shops to FOLLOW EXISTING LAW, those sales would never have happened!

The ATF were powerless to prevent the sales.
The EXISTING LAW prevents the agency from stopping them.
Are you sure that the ATF forced them to go through with the sales, or that they told the gun shops that they couldn't do anything?

Before you get too disillusioned.

The FBI knowingly approved transfers to known felons.

And yes the ATF could have intervened at any time.

 

[idb]

The part you're missing is that the gun shop owners tried to STOP the sales, they knew something was wrong, and the ATF FORCED them to go through with the sales anyway.

Had the ATF allowed the gun shops to FOLLOW EXISTING LAW, those sales would never have happened!

The ATF were powerless to prevent the sales.
The EXISTING LAW prevents the agency from stopping them.
Are you sure that the ATF forced them to go through with the sales, or that they told the gun shops that they couldn't do anything?

Before you get too disillusioned.

The FBI knowingly approved transfers to known felons.

And yes the ATF could have intervened at any time.

I thought the discussion was about the ATF?
And yes, maybe they could have intervened, but would they have been within the law?

 

[GuyPinestra]

Try researching before simply regurgitating the MSM line.
It looks like the guns were legally purchased and the ATF had no ability to stop it.
Look to all politicians and special interest groups that allowed this to happen - forget which party they belong to.
Then, the way that both sides have acted since the operation became public news.
It's a total scandal and reflects the worst aspects of the US political system.

The part you're missing is that the gun shop owners tried to STOP the sales, they knew something was wrong, and the ATF FORCED them to go through with the sales anyway.

Had the ATF allowed the gun shops to FOLLOW EXISTING LAW, those sales would never have happened!

The ATF were powerless to prevent the sales.
The EXISTING LAW prevents the agency from stopping them.
Are you sure that the ATF forced them to go through with the sales, or that they told the gun shops that they couldn't do anything?

Yes, I am sure, and the gun shop owners have the tapes to PROVE it. ATF told the gun shops to let the sales go through when the gun shops themselves were trying to get the buyers busted. The gun shops followed existing law by reporting suspicious sales to the ATF BEFORE those sales were consummated and ATF told the gun shops to let the sales WALK.

 

[idb]

The part you're missing is that the gun shop owners tried to STOP the sales, they knew something was wrong, and the ATF FORCED them to go through with the sales anyway.

Had the ATF allowed the gun shops to FOLLOW EXISTING LAW, those sales would never have happened!

The ATF were powerless to prevent the sales.
The EXISTING LAW prevents the agency from stopping them.
Are you sure that the ATF forced them to go through with the sales, or that they told the gun shops that they couldn't do anything?

Yes, I am sure, and the gun shop owners have the tapes to PROVE it. ATF told the gun shops to let the sales go through when the gun shops themselves were trying to get the buyers busted. The gun shops followed existing law by reporting suspicious sales to the ATF BEFORE those sales were consummated and ATF told the gun shops to let the sales WALK.

To save me Googling...are the transcripts published?
I'm not agreeing or disagreeing but it would be really interesting to try to understand the context of the conversations.

 

[Full-Auto]

The ATF were powerless to prevent the sales.
The EXISTING LAW prevents the agency from stopping them.
Are you sure that the ATF forced them to go through with the sales, or that they told the gun shops that they couldn't do anything?

Before you get too disillusioned.

The FBI knowingly approved transfers to known felons.

And yes the ATF could have intervened at any time.

I thought the discussion was about the ATF?
And yes, maybe they could have intervened, but would they have been within the law?

Yes they would have.

My god man they were watching the sales on TV. They had to coordinate with the FBI to get the transfer approved through NICS. Add they disciplined Agents for speaking up.

Are you seriously looking to excuse these guys?

 

[idb]

Before you get too disillusioned.

The FBI knowingly approved transfers to known felons.

And yes the ATF could have intervened at any time.

I thought the discussion was about the ATF?
And yes, maybe they could have intervened, but would they have been within the law?

Yes they would have.

My god man they were watching the sales on TV. They had to coordinate with the FBI to get the transfer approved through NICS. Add they disciplined Agents for speaking up.

Are you seriously looking to excuse these guys?

No, I'm saying that you can be certain that the screaming and blustering and posturing in the media and Washington are not the full story.
Have you read the Fortune magazine article for example?

 

[bobgnote]

President Bam-Bam wants to finally tax the wealthy and corporations. But does he get to? Tell your flunkies, to give the Manning defense their ev., Bam!

I have no idea how black Obamney is supposed to blow the whistle, on any pubsies.

 

[GuyPinestra]

I thought the discussion was about the ATF?
And yes, maybe they could have intervened, but would they have been within the law?

Yes they would have.

My god man they were watching the sales on TV. They had to coordinate with the FBI to get the transfer approved through NICS. Add they disciplined Agents for speaking up.

Are you seriously looking to excuse these guys?

No, I'm saying that you can be certain that the screaming and blustering and posturing in the media and Washington are not the full story.
Have you read the Fortune magazine article for example?

The Fortune Magazine piece was a whitewash. I don't have any links bookmarked so I can't save you any Googling, but I can sure encourage you to do so, because what you will learn is really pretty scary.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

I think it's a very interesting question. Most were very willing to crucify the President over Watergate. So what about 'Fast & Furious?' What do you think?

Both instances have government officials using their power to try and hide/cover up the truth.

The difference? Someone died as a result of fast and furious so I guess that makes it "worse"

 

[Abatis]

The ATF were powerless to prevent the sales.
The EXISTING LAW prevents the agency from stopping them.
Are you sure that the ATF forced them to go through with the sales, or that they told the gun shops that they couldn't do anything?

Yes the ATF were "powerless" to effect arrest of the strawbuyers but not because there was no law to cite or probable cause but because a decision was made in the upper echelon of DOJ, to suspend, just in the border region of Arizona, the federal prosecution of Title 18 statutes covering domestic retail sale and transfer of firearms.

Enforcing those laws has been the ATF's primary job for decades but under this new policy, Phoenix ATF Agents were to focus on bringing the US Attorney indictable evidence under Title 22 which covers the international trafficking of arms.

This demanded ATF engage in a "a high volume trafficking operation" with "limited or delayed interdiction" which meant ATF just turned their backs for a year and a half as a dozen or so known straw buyers purchased upwards of 2000 guns and just walked away. The recent cover story that it was the Arizona laws or weak gun laws in general that left ATF impotent is just propaganda constructed of despicable insulting lies. Consider the frustration of honest ATF agents horrified at the possible outcome as thousands of AK's, 50 caliber sniper rifles and FN Five-seveN pistols went into the wind. Well, in some cases they went around the US Attorney and federal law and sought prosecution in the state courts of Arizona (yeah, where there are no laws on strawbuying or transfer of guns </sarcasm off>)

"In my opinion, my professional opinion, dozens of firearms traffickers were given a pass by the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the District of Arizona. Despite the existence of “probable cause” in many cases, there were no indictments, no prosecutions, and criminals were allowed to walk free. In short, their office policies, in my opinion, helped pave a dangerous path.

Fortunately, the same could not be said of the Arizona Attorney General’s Office – state prosecutors – to which we agents were forced to turn for prosecution of firearm cases. Victor Varela and his associates, who trafficked .50 caliber rifles directly to Mexican Drug Cartels, one of which was used to kill a Mexican military commander were successfully prosecuted by the Arizona Attorney General’s Office. This was after the case had been declined for federal prosecution by Assistant U.S. Attorney Emory Hurley due to what he referred to as “corpus delecti” issues.

Mr. Varela, sadly, was released from prison last July, because of lesser sentencing guidelines that applied in state court, but the alternative- no prosecution- in my eyes was unacceptable.

Another case, which involved a corrupt federal firearms licensee, who was supplying guns to several firearms trafficking organizations, was declined by Mr. Hurley. This particular dealer, in his post- arrest statement, admitted that “approximately 1000 of his firearms” were trafficked to Mexico. Over one half -dozen of that dealer’s firearms were located around the body of Arturo Beltran-Leyva, the head of Beltran-Leyva Cartel, after he was killed in a fierce gun battle with the Mexican Naval Infantry in Cuernavaca, Mexico.

Due the recalcitrance of the United States Attorney’s Office, cases such as these were presented for prosecution to the Arizona Attorney General’s office, where state law carries lesser penalties than they did under the federal statute. I believe that this situation, wherein the United States Attorney’s Office for the District of Arizona in Phoenix particularly, declined most of our firearm cases, was at lest one factor which led to the debacle that is now known as “Operation Fast and Furious.”

ATF Special Agent Peter Forcelli, testimony before the House Committee on Government Oversight and Reform, June 6, 2011​

 

[American_Jihad]

'Fast and Furious' ATF Official Granted Paid Leave to Take 6-Figure Job at JP Morgan

By Susan Jones
August 23, 2012

(CNSNews.com) - The long-awaited inspector general's report on the Justice Department's botched gun-running scheme is finished, Rep. Darrell Issa (R-Calif.) said on Wednesday.

But along with that news comes more questions: Issa and Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa) are demanding to know why a top ATF official involved in Operation Fast and Furious remains on paid leave from ATF -- while simultaneously drawing a six-figure salary from J.P. Morgan, a major investment bank.

In a letter to the acting head of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Issa and Grassley asked why the Justice Department would approve such a special arrangement for Bill McMahon.

---

'Fast and Furious' ATF Official Granted Paid Leave to Take 6-Figure Job at JP Morgan | CNSNews.com

 

[HUGGY]

Do You Think The Fast & Furious Scandal Is Worse Than Watergate Scandal?

I think some would like it to be.. but it has died a slow death of a thousand ignores..

HMPH!

 

[thanatos144]

Do You Think The Fast & Furious Scandal Is Worse Than Watergate Scandal?

I think some would like it to be.. but it has died a slow death of a thousand ignores..

HMPH!

Only in your moms basement is it ignored....You need to get out more.