Do You Think The Fast & Furious Scandal Is Worse Than Watergate Scandal?

[Trajan]

Neither of these hold a candle to Iran-Contra.

Reagan sold arms to Iran, who was under an embargo, and funded the Contras, a group of known terrorists, at the same time.

terrorists?

 

[Dr Grump]

Seen the email. And? Of course there is political fall out to consider. Heads will roll over this, and I'm guessing at an ATF high level and/or DOJ mid level. I think Holder wants to cross his t's and dot his i's. The public will know in time...

Seen the email? so perjury is what? a ho hum move on moment?

And I see, political fall out. hes had 8 months.....

so this is or isn't a witch-hunt, ran by extremist gopers? ...... your argument is melting under your feet, now we are down to evoking exec. privilege to consider political fallout.....all the while excoriating 'extremist right wingers' for demanding answers.....I see.

Not at all. I don't like the use of executive privelege either, but I hate hypocrisy even worse...

 

[logical4u]

That's exactly what it is. Police has been running stings for decades.

Really?Explain Holder denyiong it's existense from the start? Blaming Bush for it (which was refuted TODAY)...

Face it? People DIED. Holder is in deep as is Obama...

You need to wake your ass up son.

This isn't defendable.

Well, there goes more evidence that you don't know what you're talking about by saying the Bush administration wasn't involved (last time I checked, Bush was still in the White House in 2007 when the operation started).

Yeah, a guy died. That's tragic. That doesn't mean the people involved in the sting were engaged in a massive criminal conspiracy.

If they have nothing to hide, why isn't "the most transparent administration" cooperating? Please explain it to us. The same administration that has allowed military and intelligence secrets to be made "public" won't come clean on a "police style sting"?

 

[Dr Grump]

lets go back all the way-


first vote Carter over ford, then, reagan reagan, bush 1, perot, clinton, bush bush , write in Ron Paul......this btw proves squat even if its advantageous to me, to put put it on display..it proves little imho. kerry was a horrible candidate and so was mccain.

wanna talk issues now?

yea, shrug.

I thought we were talking issues. You're the one getting side tracked about your personal beliefs...

Fair enough re Kerry. I thought anybody was better than Bush, including Kerry....just....

Beliefs? were so?

you asked me to supply my votes for several presidential elections, I gave you them all, thats not a values or issues debate or reveal.

There have been substance to other parts of the posts that you seem to ignore, and were getting caught up in what I thought your politics were. That's on you....

 

[Trajan]

Seen the email? so perjury is what? a ho hum move on moment?

And I see, political fall out. hes had 8 months.....

so this is or isn't a witch-hunt, ran by extremist gopers? ...... your argument is melting under your feet, now we are down to evoking exec. privilege to consider political fallout.....all the while excoriating 'extremist right wingers' for demanding answers.....I see.

Not at all. I don't like the use of executive privelege either, but I hate hypocrisy even worse...

really? how does that apply here, exactly?

 

[Dr Grump]

Neither of these hold a candle to Iran-Contra.

Reagan sold arms to Iran, who was under an embargo, and funded the Contras, a group of known terrorists, at the same time.

terrorists?

So the Contras weren't terrorists to the Nicaraguan people? They were freedom fighters right? As was OBL who wanted infidels out of Saudi Arabia? Who wanted the corrupt House of Saud put to the sword? Right?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Watergate was worse, though not as bad as the Bush admin lying to the american people with the fabricated "they have WMD's and we know where they are" BS to go to war with Iraq.

you are an idiot.

 

[Dr Grump]

Not at all. I don't like the use of executive privelege either, but I hate hypocrisy even worse...

really? how does that apply here, exactly?

I have already covered that several times in posts on this thread...

 

[Trajan]

I thought we were talking issues. You're the one getting side tracked about your personal beliefs...

Fair enough re Kerry. I thought anybody was better than Bush, including Kerry....just....

Beliefs? were so?

you asked me to supply my votes for several presidential elections, I gave you them all, thats not a values or issues debate or reveal.

There have been substance to other parts of the posts that you seem to ignore, and were getting caught up in what I thought your politics were. That's on you....

gibberish.You made a statement, I asked you to provide the benchmarks.......one down, values/issues to go. talk the talk if you are going to walk the walk.

 

[francoHFW]

Former ATF Head Says He Didn't Know About 'Fast and Furious ...
Dec 26, 2011 ... Claims his aides did not inform him about controversial gun running program. ...
Former ATF Head Says He Didn't Know About 'Fast and Furious' ... Attorney
General Eric Holder has caught most of the flack for the botched ...

http://www.loop21.com/.../former-atf...st-and-furious -

 

[logical4u]

This is hardly a blip. Even the right knows its been an enormous waste of money and is only about "getting" President Obama. The funny part is, its the job of the attorney general to decide and mete out punishment.

Meanwhile, the R's are still filibustering, obstructing, sending jobs and money over seas while working hard to take freedoms away from American people.

BTW, there is no doubt that the Rs will vote for contempt.

No surprise there.

It's been funny watching the Right Wing Politburo?Punditry try and pimp this issue.

You would think that, but for F&F, the Mexican Cartels wouldn't have any weapons to kill border agents with. Somehow I doubt that.

What ever happened to "guns don't kill people...."

And if we are going to start getting incredulous about putting weapons in the hands of bad guys:

*cough!* *cough!* Iran Contra... *cough!* *cough!*

You are right. The left was sooooo upset about Iran Contra, but look at this as perfectly acceptable. What's up with that? We know you guys love the double standard, but we thought you hated the "greedy" and the "powerful". Here are two of the most "powerful" (and greedy) men in the USA, and you guys are whistlin' Dixie?

 

[Trajan]

really? how does that apply here, exactly?

I have already covered that several times in posts on this thread...

humor me then please.

I don't recall how the gop is being hypocritical here, by virtue of your posts.Is obama being hypocritical? Holder?

 

[Too Tall]

Neither of these hold a candle to Iran-Contra.

Reagan sold arms to Iran, who was under an embargo, and funded the Contras, a group of known terrorists, at the same time.

If my memory serves me, the Contras were fighting the Sandinistas, who were Communists. Reagan was prohibited from using US dollars to fund his fight against international communism by the Boland Amendment(s) passed by the Democrat controlled Senate.

Reagan didn't think having a Communist takeover in Central America was a very good idea. Apparently you do.

The arms sold to Iran were brokered through (gasp) Israel and were last years models and were never used against the US.

 

[Vast LWC]

Neither of these hold a candle to Iran-Contra.

Reagan sold arms to Iran, who was under an embargo, and funded the Contras, a group of known terrorists, at the same time.

terrorists?

Yessir.

The Contras targeted and attacked civilian targets as a matter of course as part of a campaign of psychological warfare, including attacking hospitals and murdering children.

That makes them terrorists.

Is there something about the definition of the word "terrorist" that I'm missing?

 

[percysunshine]

Neither of these hold a candle to Iran-Contra.

Reagan sold arms to Iran, who was under an embargo, and funded the Contras, a group of known terrorists, at the same time.

terrorists?

So the Contras weren't terrorists to the Nicaraguan people? They were freedom fighters right? As was OBL who wanted infidels out of Saudi Arabia? Who wanted the corrupt House of Saud put to the sword? Right?

Your deflections are wandering.

Since you brought it up, people went to jail in Iran/Contra. Why should this be any different?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Former ATF Head Says He Didn't Know About 'Fast and Furious ...
Dec 26, 2011 ... Claims his aides did not inform him about controversial gun running program. ...
Former ATF Head Says He Didn't Know About 'Fast and Furious' ... Attorney
General Eric Holder has caught most of the flack for the botched ...

http://www.loop21.com/.../former-atf...st-and-furious -

It does not matter now, when obama invoked executive privilege he just told everybody he knew about it.

 

[logical4u]

I think a lot of people on the far right want it to be worse than the watergate scandal.

But.. "No."

On your scale people dying is not as bad as a bungled politically motivated burglary.

Good to know where you stand.

No. On my scale, illegal things are worse than non-illegal things.

So did the DOJ break the law with this botched sting?

Only if you count forcing gun shops to make illegal sales (when the shops reported it, the shops were coerced into selling to people that they were required to "report"), only if you count deliberatly sending weapons into another country's "rebels" (drug cartels) hands, only if you count lying to congress about the matter, only if you count hiding supeonad documents, etc, etc, etc

No problem here, the FRAUD continues, get your koolaid while it isn't watered down, quick!

 

[del]

Neither of these hold a candle to Iran-Contra.

Reagan sold arms to Iran, who was under an embargo, and funded the Contras, a group of known terrorists, at the same time.

If my memory serves me, the Contras were fighting the Sandinistas, who were Communists. Reagan was prohibited from using US dollars to fund his fight against international communism by the Boland Amendment(s) passed by the Democrat controlled Senate.

Reagan didn't think having a Communist takeover in Central America was a very good idea. Apparently you do.

The arms sold to Iran were brokered through (gasp) Israel and were last years models and were never used against the US.

your memory doesn't serve you. the sandinistas, commie or not, were the legally elected govt of nicaragua.

the contras were terrorists. they sought to terrorize the population and destabilize the govt. through violence.

you can put as much lipstick as you want on that pig, but it's still a pig.

do they teach history in school any more?

 

[Vast LWC]

If my memory serves me, the Contras were fighting the Sandinistas, who were Communists. Reagan was prohibited from using US dollars to fund his fight against international communism by the Boland Amendment(s) passed by the Democrat controlled Senate.

Reagan didn't think having a Communist takeover in Central America was a very good idea. Apparently you do.

The arms sold to Iran were brokered through (gasp) Israel and were last years models and were never used against the US.

So, you believe that terrorist actions are A-OK, as long as they are in support of a philosophy you believe in?

Reagan broke TWO laws there. One was the arms embargo against Iran, and the other was the embargo against funding the Contra Terrorists.

Do you feel that the "last year's model" arms that were intentionally sold to the Iranians were more, or less, dangerous than the small arms sold to various Mexican criminals with the intention of catching them?

 

[francoHFW]

As Woodward and Bernstein have said , especially recently, Watergate was just the tip of the iceberg. Nixon's administration was a huge paranoid and vicious gangster operation, sending the IRS after "enemies", etc etc. Dirty tricks sabotaging the Dems. etc