Do You Think The Fast & Furious Scandal Is Worse Than Watergate Scandal?

[BlindBoo]

The only weapon you have to combat this is your vote.


But instead you're using your only weapon to crush the few americans left fighting for liberty.

I'm not sure I understnd your point.

You vote and support those who are hellbent on arresting as many people as they can for using drugs and doing their best to suppress state's rights on the subject, even if that person is a former drug user himself.

You see what you want to see.

For the record I've vote straight libertarian in every single election and every single race except one. Living in Texas the onlr reason I do that is not because I think they will win but because I support their overall cause and to keep a third party on the ballot.

 

[thanatos144]

This is the most corrupt administration ever..... and liberals who defend it are ether corrupt themselves or retarded.....you pick.

 

[BlindBoo]

I'm not sure I understnd your point.

He was forgetting that you seek totalitarianism.

He pretends to take a principled stance against the drug war, all while coming on here and playing virtual tonsil hockey with Obama and the democrat party hours a day.



I don't understand why he just isn't honest about it, he's cool with the drug war as long as someone he voted for is supplying the tyranny.

Defending President Obama against the hysterical hyperbole of some on the wacky posters here is not playing tonsil hockey.

I was ridiculed here by the wacky posters when I called into question the Presidents response just days into his presidency on ignoring or snickering at the most sought after internet question....

 

[paulitician]

Murdered by your own Government. Damn, that's just plain sad. God Bless Brian Terry and his Family. They'll have their Justice one day. I truly believe that.

 

[BlindBoo]

The Brian Terry family does not agree with your opinion of this nor did the several Democrats who did vote with the Republicans:

The Brian Terry family has been emotionally manipulated by right-wing operatives, who should be ashamed of themselves for what they're doing.

Really? wanting to know how your child was killed is manipulating? Wouldn't you want those responsible held accountable? Hell yes you would.

Well from what I understand the federal agents were ordered to shoot bean bag rounds first. After they did that they were killed ina hail of bullets from the Cartel members.

Sad that the Republicans would try and use his death in such a partisan witch hunt.

 

[amrchaos]

In Fast and Furious, we had an agent--basically a law enforcer officer--killed by federal ineptness. Something that happens alot. federal ineptness should not be excused, but it happens because we have inept elected officials and their idiot but wealthy cronies telling them what to do.


In Watergate, a precedent for stealing elections to the highest offices of the land was discovered and stopped.

I say Watergate. Yes, their is death and destruction caused by Fast and Furious, but if Nixon got away with his election "techniques" then our right to select our elected officials would be comprised beyond repair. Death and destruction can result from this as well plus we citizens lose power.

 

[paulitician]

The Brian Terry family has been emotionally manipulated by right-wing operatives, who should be ashamed of themselves for what they're doing.

Really? wanting to know how your child was killed is manipulating? Wouldn't you want those responsible held accountable? Hell yes you would.

Well from what I understand the federal agents were ordered to shoot bean bag rounds first. After they did that they were killed ina hail of bullets from the Cartel members.

Sad that the Republicans would try and use his death in such a partisan witch hunt.

I still don't get your Goose Stepping on this. This is a horrifying abuse of power by our Government. What do you owe Obama, Holder, and the Democratic Party? Why defend them so vigorously?

 

[The T]

This is the most corrupt administration ever..... and liberals who defend it are ether corrupt themselves or retarded.....you pick.

Or both.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

This is the most corrupt administration ever..... and liberals who defend it are ether corrupt themselves or retarded.....you pick.

Or both.

Only the most partisan have defended obama and holder. You notice the rest have stayed out of the discussion? Staying out of the discussion is just as bad as being a partisan hack and defending it.

 

[Uncensored2008]

In Fast and Furious, we had an agent--basically a law enforcer officer--killed by federal ineptness. Something that happens alot. federal ineptness should not be excused, but it happens because we have inept elected officials and their idiot but wealthy cronies telling them what to do.


In Watergate, a precedent for stealing elections to the highest offices of the land was discovered and stopped.

I say Watergate. Yes, their is death and destruction caused by Fast and Furious, but if Nixon got away with his election "techniques" then our right to select our elected officials would be comprised beyond repair. Death and destruction can result from this as well plus we citizens lose power.

You DO realize that the Watergate break in was a reaction to election fraud, not election fraud itself? Don't you? The burglary intended (and did) to find evidence of election fraud by the McGovern campaign similar to that which Kennedy and Johnson had engaged in.

So a burglary to catch the dims with their hand in the cookie jar, or selling guns to terrorist that led to at least 300 deaths, including two federal agents.

So which is more important? I guess it all depends on whether you are a mindless hack. If you're not a hack, it isn't even close.

Watergate proved that no Republican is above the law.

Monicagate proved that no Democrat is subject to the law.

 

[Dr.Drock]

I'm not sure I understnd your point.

You vote and support those who are hellbent on arresting as many people as they can for using drugs and doing their best to suppress state's rights on the subject, even if that person is a former drug user himself.

You see what you want to see.

For the record I've vote straight libertarian in every single election and every single race except one. Living in Texas the onlr reason I do that is not because I think they will win but because I support their overall cause and to keep a third party on the ballot.

The last thing I want to see is someone fawning over Obama.

Well I'm glad to hear that, but that just makes it even more confusing that you voice nothing but support for Obama on this board.

Someone bashing Obama shouldn't cause you to support him more, shouldn't have any impact on whether or not you support him.

 

[Dr.Drock]

He was forgetting that you seek totalitarianism.

He pretends to take a principled stance against the drug war, all while coming on here and playing virtual tonsil hockey with Obama and the democrat party hours a day.



I don't understand why he just isn't honest about it, he's cool with the drug war as long as someone he voted for is supplying the tyranny.

Defending President Obama against the hysterical hyperbole of some on the wacky posters here is not playing tonsil hockey.

I was ridiculed here by the wacky posters when I called into question the Presidents response just days into his presidency on ignoring or snickering at the most sought after internet question....

You didn't address my point about the drug war. If you truly are against it in principle your "hysterical hyperbole" should be every bit as loud and obvious as the Romneybots.

 

[paulitician]

On a side-note, the War on Drugs has failed miserably. Big changes in our approach to Drugs has to happen. There are Millions & Millions of Americans locked away in our Prisons who just don't belong there. But it is big business for Big Government. Lots of jobs depend on the War on Drugs. And that's just the sad reality. The War on Drugs has sadly become a War on the American People. It's time for revolutionary change. But all that being said, it doesn't excuse or justify what Holder did. He has to be held accountable. Period, end of story.

 

[Foxfyre]

It very well may be that neither Holder nor Obama did anything wrong re Fast and Furious, most especially as related to Biran Terry. Just as Nixon did nothing wrong related to the Watergate burglary incident.

In both cases, suspicions were aroused when the Nixon administration and now the Obama administration proposed to do any investigation themselves, resisted appointment of a special investigator/prosecutor, and appeared to be covering up something. It took a lot of investigation by the special prosecutor and a lot of Congressional hearings to get to the bottom of Watergate, plus a lot of tell all books written by participants later, but I think we did probably eventually get most of the whole story there.

It took many months of efforts by an appointed special prosecutor/investigator and countless Congressional hearings plus a few 'tell all' books written after the fact to get to the bottom of the Iran Contra affair. But I think we eventuallu did get most of the whole story there.

And now there are many many unanswered questions re Fast and Furious, and had Obama and Holder come clean on that from the get go, it would probably never have escalated into a major bruhaha. But because of the appearance of a coverup, it is now major news and a story that is not going to go away easily. Obama and Holder refuse to apppoint a special prosecutor/investigator. And probably for political reasons, Congress isn't going to do that once there is blood in the water and they can use it for ammnunition this close to the Presidential election.

But those who object to the Congressional hearings and/or contempt citation are abvsolutely playing just as much pure politics for their own purposes.

 

[BlindBoo]

Really? wanting to know how your child was killed is manipulating? Wouldn't you want those responsible held accountable? Hell yes you would.

Well from what I understand the federal agents were ordered to shoot bean bag rounds first. After they did that they were killed ina hail of bullets from the Cartel members.

Sad that the Republicans would try and use his death in such a partisan witch hunt.

I still don't get your Goose Stepping on this. This is a horrifying abuse of power by our Government. What do you owe Obama, Holder, and the Democratic Party? Why defend them so vigorously?

Hahaha being called goose stepper by partisan hacks means nothing. I'm sick of you and the Republicans trying to capitalize on this agents death in a partisan attack on the current administration. May as well attack the gun manufactors as well as the NRA for that matter. Both are more culpablitiy than the AG or President when it come to death by gun.

 

[paulitician]

Well from what I understand the federal agents were ordered to shoot bean bag rounds first. After they did that they were killed ina hail of bullets from the Cartel members.

Sad that the Republicans would try and use his death in such a partisan witch hunt.

I still don't get your Goose Stepping on this. This is a horrifying abuse of power by our Government. What do you owe Obama, Holder, and the Democratic Party? Why defend them so vigorously?

Hahaha being called goose stepper by partisan hacks means nothing. I'm sick of you and the Republicans trying to capitalize on this agents death in a partisan attack on the current administration. May as well attack the gun manufactors as well as the NRA for that matter. Both are more culpablitiy than the AG or President when it come to death by gun.

Sorry, but you do sound like a loyal Goose Stepper. Seriously, what do you owe Obama, Holder, and the Democratic Party? Why such loyalty? How can you condone and dismiss what the Government did on this? I'm actually very disappointed in you. You've lost a lot of credibility over this one.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Hahaha being called goose stepper by partisan hacks means nothing. I'm sick of you and the Republicans trying to capitalize on this agents death in a partisan attack on the current administration. May as well attack the gun manufactors as well as the NRA for that matter. Both are more culpablitiy than the AG or President when it come to death by gun.

We know Boo, we know.

 

[BlindBoo]

And, if the documents initially produced compared with other information obtained by the Congressional oversight committee show contradictory information, what in that do you not think the committee should explore further? And if the AG told Congress one thing, or claimed no knowledge of something he clearly had knowledge of, how is that not worthy of being held in contempt of Congress?

You are probably too young to remember the Iran Contra hearings. But I don't think I missed a single syllable of that entire process that was fully televised for the world to see. And only after being given Congressional immunity for his testimony, did Oliver North admit that he had absolutely lied to Congress about many components of Iran Contra and he gave his full reasons for doing so. But had he not been given immunity, he would surely have been in contempt of Congress. And no manner of justification by any of us, no matter how much we admired Col. North, would have changed the fact that he was guilty of contempt of Congress. They just couldn't hold it against him because they promised they would not.

They did go on to dig for something and they did find a couple of minor infractions that they convicted him on. That conviction and the fine and community service ordered were subsequently thrown out by a federal court who ruled that North 'incriminated himself' only on the strength of the immunity he had been given and Congress could not convict him on something they had promised immunity.

I am not in fact too young to remember Iran Contra.

I remember that in Iran Contra, there were in fact arms sold illegally through an intermediary to Iran, and there was funding given illegally to a Central-American terrorist organization.

I also remember that there was clear evidence of both before Oliver North's testimony even took place.

And finally, I remember right-wingers defending said illegal action to this day.

Ollie North works for FoxNews for God's sake.

If you remember it, then you remember that it was long before there WAS a Fox News. And you might have even read some of the many books, including, his that were written about it. And you might also remember that the Democratic Congress did request the the AG appoint a special prosecutor and spent $43 million--that was a LOT of money back in the 80's--who was able to convict and sentence quite a few people found guilty of illegal operations during Iran Contra. The special prosecutor was not able to find anything that carried any kind of penalty to hang Oliver North or President Reagan or any of his staff re Iran Contra though.

Congress had to look elsewhere for somethng to convict Oliver North. And, as I said, a federal judge subsequently threw even that out.

But would you have accused Congress of conducting a witch hunt re Oliver North? Or Ronald Reagan? Or any of the investigations of the Bush administration re Iraq?

Or is it only your heroes that you resent anybody questioning or asking questions of?

The Lost Opportunity of Iran-Contra | Consortiumnews

It looked as if Reagan’s cover-up of his secret Contra war and its criminal spin-offs would succeed. However, two unlikely events in fall 1986 intervened to change the short-term course of history.

First, on Oct. 5, 1986, one of North’s Contra supply planes – on one of its last missions before the CIA’s new $100 million Contra aid program clicked in – was shot down over Nicaragua. The surviving crew member, Eugene Hasenfus, began talking about a secret White House/CIA operation. More denials poured forth from President Reagan, Vice President George H.W. Bush and other senior officials.

Then a second shoe dropped, a disclosure from a Beirut weekly describing secret U.S. arms sales to Iran supposedly as part of a scheme for freeing U.S. hostages in Lebanon.

Finally, Reagan’s lies couldn’t overcome the accumulation of facts; for once, Congress showed some backbone; and an internal White House inquiry turned up another disclosure, that Oliver North had diverted some of the profits from the Iranian arms sales to help finance the Contras.

 

[Vast LWC]

Call them what they are terrorists

Now that is clearly false.

In order for them to be terrorists, you would have to expand the definition of "terrorist" to include all criminal activity.

That would make the Mafia terrorists, any street gang terrorists, etc.

Pretty much any gang of bank robbers would also be terrorists.

So, unless you want to completely devalue the meaning of the word "terrorist", I suggest you stop trying to apply it to any situation where it proves politically expedient.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Finally, Reagan’s lies couldn’t overcome the accumulation of facts; for once, Congress showed some backbone; and an internal White House inquiry turned up another disclosure, that Oliver North had diverted some of the profits from the Iranian arms sales to help finance the Contras.

And the fifth column was OUTRAGED, Nicaragua was a Soviet Beachhead on the North American contentment. Jim Wright had worked hard to put the Soviets on our Southern Border, Reagan was fucking up the Soviet plans...

And you still haven't gotten over it.

No hammer and sickle for you...