Do You Understand The Concept Of Tithing?

[The Irish Ram]

Right you are Jeremiah. Look at the apple of God's eye, David, a perfect example of paying the consequences of sin. It tore his family apart. David had the Spirit of God in Him, was accustom to listening to that Spirit, and truly loved God, and then turned around and loved his neighbor, and had a man killed, so he could continue to love his neighbor. He listened to the wrong spirit.
Even with the indwelling of God's spirit, it took Nathan to make David realize his own sin. David's repentant heart saved him.

While discussing the different spirits that try to lead us, one of my youth group kids asked me, "How do you know which spirit you are hearing"? I gave him the answer that Jesus gave, "my sheep know my voice". By reading the "Word", we hear the "Word". And the spirit grows by being fed.
That way if the 'soon to be grown up' child hears a voice that tells him it is ok to cheat on his taxes, because taxes aren't legal anyway, he'll also hear, "render unto Caesar what is belongs to Caesar" and be able to differentiate.

Just like Isiah said He would, Christ magnified the law, and through His righteousness, made it honorable. We are told to keep the Ten Commandments in the Old and New Testament. It may not be liberating, but it is sound direction, which in it's self is liberating.

And we are back to the issue of tithing/charity. They are not the same. Tithe goes to the church, charity to those you meet on the way to tithe to the church. Christians are fed in God's house, then and now, whether it be someone's living room, or a spacious cathedral. And the Holy Spirit grows.

People are the church. Absolutely. We are the bride, Christ is the bridegroom. We are not houses. When we hear, "come hither", not one brick will be caught up. And our churches are becoming as corrupt as our politicians. I go to the church my ancestors built 200 years ago. I teach children there. I do NOT tithe there. They pay alms to the organization/church that is propagating the one world religion, and didn't even realize it. They are not good stewards of my money.

Having said that, we need to be careful about judging churches based on their size, or beauty, or money. God has nothing against money or especially His people prospering. In fact He expects it. It is the greedy love of money that He has a problem with. One of Christ's followers was the richest man on earth. God's temple was bathed in gold. His streets are paved with it. He is building mansions for His children, not bungalows.

Remember the attitude shown to the woman who poured expensive oil on Christ, and was met with judgment by Christ's disciples for not selling the oil and endowing the poor instead of Christ? She wasn't wrong. They were.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

The norm of most all of the churches I used to go to was build, build, build.
The last big church I went to spent 30K a piece for 6 stained glass windows.
I now go to a church where we rent out retail store space for $2500 a month. It seats 350 and we bought used chairs for $12 a piece.
We have no building fund to erect a 5 million dollar church.
We follow Christ instead and help others instead of building mansions.
We pass no plate and we do not pick political candidates.

That is SO my kind of Church! I love it! I believe many Christians are opting for this these days. It is using wisdom to be a good steward of the money in my opinion. Good for you and your church! Awesome! - Jeremiah

 

[The Irish Ram]

And jews take responsiblity for their own actions. They don't rely on some outside person.

Oh, how right you are Mike!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's proof:
Not one whining, sinning Jew, lost his life from Egypt to Mt. Sinai. Then the Jews told God they wanted to take responsibility for their own actions, "Bring it, we can handle it".
And God did! He gave them the rules He was protecting them from and 3,000 dropped dead on the spot. They built a calf and died, they whined to Moses and died, they leaned on their own understanding of what God meant, and died.

He actually set boundaries around the Mt. after they boasted, to keep them from dropping dead drenched in their own "abilities". He separated himself from them. In the temple, He put up a curtain in the temple to separate Himself from their sin-full selves while they were responsible for their actions, to keep them from dropping dead. Christ reunites us. The curtain was torn in half giving us direct access to our Father again. We can go boldly to the throne dressed in the righteousness of Jesus.

They were given the laws to prove that they couldn't do it on their own. Then He sent His Son to cover their short disabilities. And we Gentiles were also grafted into the mercy of God at that time.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Right you are Jeremiah. Look at the apple of God's eye, David, a perfect example of paying the consequences of sin. It tore his family apart. David had the Spirit of God in Him, was accustom to listening to that Spirit, and truly loved God, and then turned around and loved his neighbor, and had a man killed, so he could continue to love his neighbor. He listened to the wrong spirit.
Even with the indwelling of God's spirit, it took Nathan to make David realize his own sin. David's repentant heart saved him.

While discussing the different spirits that try to lead us, one of my youth group kids asked me, "How do you know which spirit you are hearing"? I gave him the answer that Jesus gave, "my sheep know my voice". By reading the "Word", we hear the "Word". And the spirit grows by being fed.
That way if the 'soon to be grown up' child hears a voice that tells him it is ok to cheat on his taxes, because taxes aren't legal anyway, he'll also hear, "render unto Caesar what is belongs to Caesar" and be able to differentiate.

Just like Isiah said He would, Christ magnified the law, and through His righteousness, made it honorable. We are told to keep the Ten Commandments in the Old and New Testament. It may not be liberating, but it is sound direction, which in it's self is liberating.

And we are back to the issue of tithing/charity. They are not the same. Tithe goes to the church, charity to those you meet on the way to tithe to the church. Christians are fed in God's house, then and now, whether it be someone's living room, or a spacious cathedral. And the Holy Spirit grows.

People are the church. Absolutely. We are the bride, Christ is the bridegroom. We are not houses. When we hear, "come hither", not one brick will be caught up. And our churches are becoming as corrupt as our politicians. I go to the church my ancestors built 200 years ago. I teach children there. I do NOT tithe there. They pay alms to the organization/church that is propagating the one world religion, and didn't even realize it. They are not good stewards of my money.

Having said that, we need to be careful about judging churches based on their size, or beauty, or money. God has nothing against money or especially His people prospering. In fact He expects it. It is the greedy love of money that He has a problem with. One of Christ's followers was the richest man on earth. God's temple was bathed in gold. His streets are paved with it. He is building mansions for His children, not bungalows.

Remember the attitude shown to the woman who poured expensive oil on Christ, and was met with judgment by Christ's disciples for not selling the oil and endowing the poor instead of Christ? She wasn't wrong. They were.

What a beautifully written testimony of the gospel! Bravo! I really, really enjoyed reading this so much! Thank you for writing it. You know when I came to Christ I became homeless because I no longer was willing to be involved in dealing and all that. I quit. This is over 20 years ago for those of you wondering. Anyhow, I would get some money and put it all in the basket. I did this repeatedly. I gave everything I owned clothing furniture everything to the poor as I didn't work to get all that. I started with the clothes on my back and got a box of clothes from Benny Hinn Ministry as that was my first church and he was my Pastor. Orlando Christian Center 1989. Anyhow John Bevere was a pastor there, Kent Maddox, many famous ministers today came out of Pastor Bennys church. There were 10 Pastors under Pastor Benny. He is the one who baptised me in the Holy Ghost. He also was my teacher for prayer as I was part of his prayer team and would meet every Saturday with him at OCC.

Once he wrote Good morning Holy Spirit the church was packed out. You had to wait hours to get in and I was a Sunday School teacher there and my children would be lined up outside the door waiting to get in. The presence of God was so strong when people entered the santuary they nearly fell over. It was tangible, Gods presence, I used to see the Shekinah Glory cloud come down in there while he was ministering and oh! I was ready to go to heaven right then in those meetings. The Holy Spirit would come into those meetings with such power. It was always glorious. He's been in ministry for over 25 years now you know. It was hard to find a church like that one after he went on to the big ministry because he was traveling around the world.

This is what the Holy Spirit has shown me. The church age we are in right now is Laedocean. No question. There are churches throughout America who are awakening to the need to return to the Gospel. The good news that Jesus died for our sins and that he did this because loves us! If we are willing to give him our life he will give us his in exchange and what an exchange that is!

About the money changers. Jesus did it in broad daylight. So do I. I am not speaking to any specific pastor or even suggesting all pastors being money gospel preachers but I am saying the church has a serious problem on its hands. Remember I came out of a big church that ran beautifully by my Pastor ( Benny Hinn ) being led by the holy spirit as to how to run it. He got his direction from God and you see the results. Problem is the new ones I see coming up are focused on money and the tithe. I know one church in my own town that preached the tithe sermon every single Sunday until members said, when are we going to hear the gospel? And they left. So there's definitely something wrong because we are not seeing the miracles, the healings, the things that I am used to seeing.

The bible says without holiness no one will see the Lord. Of course that is true. They won't. But without holiness the church isn't going to see the power of God manifest in its meetings either. Pastor Benny was a man of prayer. My prayer life at its greatest point was about 7 - 10 hours of prayer per day ( in tongues ) Compare that to him and his praying 2 -3 days at a time without coming out. Do you want to know how disciplined Benny Hinn was as a prayer warrior? He was at a lavish dinner ( I believe it was in Israel at the King David Hotel ) and all of his guests were seated at the table. The food was served. He said the blessing over the meal picked up his fork and then? He quietly put it down without taking a bite and excused himself. Where was he going? The Lord had called him to prayer so he left the party, went to his hotel room and shut in to prayer for the night. That is Benny Hinn. He is sold out to God. Always has been.

I have been to many churches since Bennys and I see a disturbing trend with the prophecy crowd that always wants a word from God, etc. You know I have nothing against these things. But when it becomes excess I believe even the world can see it and knows something is not right. I give far more than 10%, I do believe that I am not under the law and God loves my giving to be cheerful. I give where God tells me to give. I would never get into a fight or arguement over whether tithing is old testament or for today. It is a silly arguement. Seriously. What does it matter if your Pastor is preaching and says in this church we tithe ten percent. What? Are people going to disobey their Pastors? Or worse yet lie about it? God forbid. No. As I said before I am very well versed in the scriptures to bring the tithes into the storehouse and believe money is probably the very least of Gods concerns. The bible says God owns all the gold and the silver and the cattle on a thousand hills. Amen? My point is that if I were in a 3rd world country with Heidi Baker we wouldn't be depending on your tithes and offerings to feed her 5000 orphans. God multiplies that food every single day supernaturally. They live by faith.

I guess you sensed my resentment that the western church has placed such an emphasis on making sure their members tithe and offer and its become ridiculous because they are no longer being led by the Spirit in their sermons. I can tell they are embellishing gospel stories to make it appear that Jesus really had an Arabian Stallion gold encrusted chariot rather than a pair of sandals and a ride on a donkey once. You know? Jesus didn't wear a rolex. That is all I'm saying. You know? Heidi was in deep intercessory prayer with God once and the Lord gave her a vision of two robes. One was a plain brown robe and the other was a lavish glorious gold threaded robe and he asked her which she would like while on the earth? She said the brown one. He told her that was the right choice that here we are called to be laborers. Can you imagine a Laborer wearing Cartier? LOL!! Ha! Ha! It just doesn't make sense, such silliness.

Here we are at the close of the age. The end days. The desperation of people in the world is almost palpable and the only thing this preacher could ask this message board is do you tithe on your gross or your net? Seriously? That should not be. I'm embarrassed for God that it even happened. As sure as the Lord lives that is my heart on the matter. May the Lord bless you. - Jeremiah

 

[The Irish Ram]

we do not pick political candidates...

You may want to start.
If these are indeed the end times, (and according to the Bible code, they are), then the anti Christ will be the politician of choice. The saints with no heads will be making a conscience choice about their politician. They are going to vote NO on getting to Heaven by works. They are going to vote Christ.

And this nation just reaffirmed their choice of an anti-Christ for president, who blatantly nullified Christ and his cross, by standing before the whole world and proclaiming that you can work your way to Heaven. No Jesus necessary!
How many will be lost just for believing a politician that we elected? We/the Nation went from sheep to goat, in a heartbeat because we don't pick our politicians based on our faith in God. We are not called to go blindly to the throne.

Gay ok?
Want a Sec. of State that loves Iran and hates Israel?
Want to be placed under U.N. authority so that all nations will come against Israel?
Want a political "peace keeper" to give God's land away?
Got Jerusalem?
Don't feel the need to bless IsraEL?
Then pick no one, do nothing. Satan's got it covered for you. He'll chose a man to lead this country that proudly displays a ring that says, "There is no God but Allah". And Allah has no son. So much for not picking according to the gospel, and letting others tend to that duty.
If God doesn't judge this nation, He owes Sodom and Gomorrah an apology. Does He NOT judge nations according to their treatment of Israel???? Will God's King not be judging our Kings based on their actions?
Charity is good. But it is not all that we are called to do. Do we raise up our children so they won't stray when they are grown? We have generations of children with absolutely no Biblical knowledge. They'll pick!

 

[CMike]

Right you are Jeremiah. Look at the apple of God's eye, David, a perfect example of paying the consequences of sin. It tore his family apart. David had the Spirit of God in Him, was accustom to listening to that Spirit, and truly loved God, and then turned around and loved his neighbor, and had a man killed, so he could continue to love his neighbor. He listened to the wrong spirit.
Even with the indwelling of God's spirit, it took Nathan to make David realize his own sin. David's repentant heart saved him.

The "spirit of god" thing is obviously a christian concept.

David was a human being. He did great things, and he sinned as well.

W

hile discussing the different spirits that try to lead us, one of my youth group kids asked me, "How do you know which spirit you are hearing"? I gave him the answer that Jesus gave, "my sheep know my voice". By reading the "Word", we hear the "Word". And the spirit grows by being fed.
That way if the 'soon to be grown up' child hears a voice that tells him it is ok to cheat on his taxes, because taxes aren't legal anyway, he'll also hear, "render unto Caesar what is belongs to Caesar" and be able to differentiate.

Wrong again. The way jews get closer to G-D is by perservering against bad temptetation and doing what G-D asks of jews. It's the struggle that makes us closer to G-D.

Reading doesn't bring anyone closer to G-D. Actions do.

J

J ust like Isiah said He would, Christ magnified the law, and through His righteousness, made it honorable. We are told to keep the Ten Commandments in the Old and New Testament. It may not be liberating, but it is sound direction, which in it's self is liberating. .

Nothing in the Torah has anything to do with jesus. And there is no such thing as magnifying the law

Once again

Deuteronomy 4:2 NIV


Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.

You either believe G-D or you believe jesus. You can't believe both.

And it's G-D that made jewish law honorable not the christian god. It is G-D that gave the law to the jews.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Right you are Jeremiah. Look at the apple of God's eye, David, a perfect example of paying the consequences of sin. It tore his family apart. David had the Spirit of God in Him, was accustom to listening to that Spirit, and truly loved God, and then turned around and loved his neighbor, and had a man killed, so he could continue to love his neighbor. He listened to the wrong spirit.
Even with the indwelling of God's spirit, it took Nathan to make David realize his own sin. David's repentant heart saved him.

While discussing the different spirits that try to lead us, one of my youth group kids asked me, "How do you know which spirit you are hearing"? I gave him the answer that Jesus gave, "my sheep know my voice". By reading the "Word", we hear the "Word". And the spirit grows by being fed.
That way if the 'soon to be grown up' child hears a voice that tells him it is ok to cheat on his taxes, because taxes aren't legal anyway, he'll also hear, "render unto Caesar what is belongs to Caesar" and be able to differentiate.

Just like Isiah said He would, Christ magnified the law, and through His righteousness, made it honorable. We are told to keep the Ten Commandments in the Old and New Testament. It may not be liberating, but it is sound direction, which in it's self is liberating.

And we are back to the issue of tithing/charity. They are not the same. Tithe goes to the church, charity to those you meet on the way to tithe to the church. Christians are fed in God's house, then and now, whether it be someone's living room, or a spacious cathedral. And the Holy Spirit grows.

People are the church. Absolutely. We are the bride, Christ is the bridegroom. We are not houses. When we hear, "come hither", not one brick will be caught up. And our churches are becoming as corrupt as our politicians. I go to the church my ancestors built 200 years ago. I teach children there. I do NOT tithe there. They pay alms to the organization/church that is propagating the one world religion, and didn't even realize it. They are not good stewards of my money.

Having said that, we need to be careful about judging churches based on their size, or beauty, or money. God has nothing against money or especially His people prospering. In fact He expects it. It is the greedy love of money that He has a problem with. One of Christ's followers was the richest man on earth. God's temple was bathed in gold. His streets are paved with it. He is building mansions for His children, not bungalows.

Remember the attitude shown to the woman who poured expensive oil on Christ, and was met with judgment by Christ's disciples for not selling the oil and endowing the poor instead of Christ? She wasn't wrong. They were.

What a beautifully written testimony of the gospel! Bravo! I really, really enjoyed reading this so much! Thank you for writing it. You know when I came to Christ I became homeless because I no longer was willing to be involved in dealing and all that. I quit. This is over 20 years ago for those of you wondering. Anyhow, I would get some money and put it all in the basket. I did this repeatedly. I gave everything I owned clothing furniture everything to the poor as I didn't work to get all that. I started with the clothes on my back and got a box of clothes from Benny Hinn Ministry as that was my first church and he was my Pastor. Orlando Christian Center 1989. Anyhow John Bevere was a pastor there, Kent Maddox, many famous ministers today came out of Pastor Bennys church. There were 10 Pastors under Pastor Benny. He is the one who baptised me in the Holy Ghost. He also was my teacher for prayer as I was part of his prayer team and would meet every Saturday with him at OCC.

Once he wrote Good morning Holy Spirit the church was packed out. You had to wait hours to get in and I was a Sunday School teacher there and my children would be lined up outside the door waiting to get in. The presence of God was so strong when people entered the santuary they nearly fell over. It was tangible, Gods presence, I used to see the Shekinah Glory cloud come down in there while he was ministering and oh! I was ready to go to heaven right then in those meetings. The Holy Spirit would come into those meetings with such power. It was always glorious. He's been in ministry for over 25 years now you know. It was hard to find a church like that one after he went on to the big ministry because he was traveling around the world.

This is what the Holy Spirit has shown me. The church age we are in right now is Laedocean. No question. There are churches throughout America who are awakening to the need to return to the Gospel. The good news that Jesus died for our sins and that he did this because loves us! If we are willing to give him our life he will give us his in exchange and what an exchange that is!

About the money changers. Jesus did it in broad daylight. So do I. I am not speaking to any specific pastor or even suggesting all pastors being money gospel preachers but I am saying the church has a serious problem on its hands. Remember I came out of a big church that ran beautifully by my Pastor ( Benny Hinn ) being led by the holy spirit as to how to run it. He got his direction from God and you see the results. Problem is the new ones I see coming up are focused on money and the tithe. I know one church in my own town that preached the tithe sermon every single Sunday until members said, when are we going to hear the gospel? And they left. So there's definitely something wrong because we are not seeing the miracles, the healings, the things that I am used to seeing.

The bible says without holiness no one will see the Lord. Of course that is true. They won't. But without holiness the church isn't going to see the power of God manifest in its meetings either. Pastor Benny was a man of prayer. My prayer life at its greatest point was about 7 - 10 hours of prayer per day ( in tongues ) Compare that to him and his praying 2 -3 days at a time without coming out. Do you want to know how disciplined Benny Hinn was as a prayer warrior? He was at a lavish dinner ( I believe it was in Israel at the King David Hotel ) and all of his guests were seated at the table. The food was served. He said the blessing over the meal picked up his fork and then? He quietly put it down without taking a bite and excused himself. Where was he going? The Lord had called him to prayer so he left the party, went to his hotel room and shut in to prayer for the night. That is Benny Hinn. He is sold out to God. Always has been.

I have been to many churches since Bennys and I see a disturbing trend with the prophecy crowd that always wants a word from God, etc. You know I have nothing against these things. But when it becomes excess I believe even the world can see it and knows something is not right. I give far more than 10%, I do believe that I am not under the law and God loves my giving to be cheerful. I give where God tells me to give. I would never get into a fight or arguement over whether tithing is old testament or for today. It is a silly arguement. Seriously. What does it matter if your Pastor is preaching and says in this church we tithe ten percent. What? Are people going to disobey their Pastors? Or worse yet lie about it? God forbid. No. As I said before I am very well versed in the scriptures to bring the tithes into the storehouse and believe money is probably the very least of Gods concerns. The bible says God owns all the gold and the silver and the cattle on a thousand hills. Amen? My point is that if I were in a 3rd world country with Heidi Baker we wouldn't be depending on your tithes and offerings to feed her 5000 orphans. God multiplies that food every single day supernaturally. They live by faith.

I guess you sensed my resentment that the western church has placed such an emphasis on making sure their members tithe and offer and its become ridiculous because they are no longer being led by the Spirit in their sermons. I can tell they are embellishing gospel stories to make it appear that Jesus really had an Arabian Stallion gold encrusted chariot rather than a pair of sandals and a ride on a donkey once. You know? Jesus didn't wear a rolex. That is all I'm saying. You know? Heidi was in deep intercessory prayer with God once and the Lord gave her a vision of two robes. One was a plain brown robe and the other was a lavish glorious gold threaded robe and he asked her which she would like while on the earth? She said the brown one. He told her that was the right choice that here we are called to be laborers. Can you imagine a Laborer wearing Cartier? LOL!! Ha! Ha! It just doesn't make sense, such silliness.

Here we are at the close of the age. The end days. The desperation of people in the world is almost palpable and the only thing this preacher could ask this message board is do you tithe on your gross or your net? Seriously? That should not be. I'm embarrassed for God that it even happened. As sure it the Lord lives that is my heart on the matter. May the Lord bless you. - Jeremiah

Beautiful! The Lord has your heart and it will be a so wonderful to see you and those like you ruling and reigning here on earth with Jesus the Christ. Your love and generosity is a blessing that blesses. So glad you're here.

 

[CMike]

And jews take responsiblity for their own actions. They don't rely on some outside person.

Oh, how right you are Mike!!!!!!!!!!!
Here's proof:
Not one whining, sinning Jew, lost his life from Egypt to Mt. Sinai. Then the Jews told God they wanted to take responsibility for their own actions, "Bring it, we can handle it".
And God did! He gave them the rules He was protecting them from and 3,000 dropped dead on the spot. They built a calf and died, they whined to Moses and died, they leaned on their own understanding of what God meant, and died.

He actually set boundaries around the Mt. after they boasted, to keep them from dropping dead drenched in their own "abilities". He separated himself from them. In the temple, He put up a curtain in the temple to separate Himself from their sin-full selves while they were responsible for their actions, to keep them from dropping dead. Christ reunites us. The curtain was torn in half giving us direct access to our Father again. We can go boldly to the throne dressed in the righteousness of Jesus.

They were given the laws to prove that they couldn't do it on their own. Then He sent His Son to cover their short disabilities. And we Gentiles were also grafted into the mercy of God at that time.

Jews were punished for worshipping the golden calf. However, there is no difference between the jews of that time worshipping a golden calf and some people who worship jesus.

Both worshipped a false god.

How do you guys spew such nonsense? G-D didn't give laws so jews couldn't follow it.

That's the point of giving the laws. The struggle brings jews closer to G-D.

G-D obviously knows people will sin. He expects it. There is a process for jews to repent.

One of the greatest sins jews could do is to rely on any "being" or any person other than the one G-d in any form as as a divine being.

So it would be really retarded to ask for forgivness by committing the grave sin of worshipping a false god.

Once again,


Hear O Israel, the L-rd is our G-D, the L-ord is ONE (Deut)
I am the Lord, and there is no other; apart from Me there is no God. ...so that from the rising of the Sun to the place of its setting men may know there is none besides Me. I am the Lord, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:5-6)

...I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me. (Isaiah, 46:9)

... so that all the peoples of the Earth may know that the Lord is God and that there is no other. (1 Kings, 8:60)

Turn to Me and be saved, all you ends of the Earth; for I am God, and there is no other. (Isaiah, 45:22)

This is what the Lord says…"Surely God is with you, and there is no other; there is no other God." (Isaiah, 45:14)

...The Lord our God, the Lord is one. (Deuteronomy, 6:4)

You are my witness--the words of Hashem--and My servant, whom I have chosen, so that you will know and believe in Me, and understand that I am He; before me nothing was created by a G-D, and after Me it shall not be (Isaiah 43:10)

... O Lord; no deeds can compare with Yours. All the nations You have made will come and worship before You, O Lord; they will bring glory to Your name. For You are great and do marvelous deeds; You alone are God. (Psalms, 86:8-10)

O Lord ...You alone are God over all the kingdoms of the Earth. You have made heaven and Earth. (Isaiah, 37:16)

... all kingdoms on Earth may know that You alone, O Lord, are God. (Isaiah, 37:20

 

[The Irish Ram]

The "spirit of god" thing is obviously a christian concept.

David was Jewish when he said to God, "Take not thy spirit from me."

The way jews get closer to G-D is by perservering against bad temptetation and doing what G-D asks of jews. It's the struggle that makes us closer to G-D.

David the Jew's take on it:
Psalm 91:4
He will cover you with His feathers; you will take refuge under His wings. ... His truth shall be thy shield and buckler - His revelation; his Bible. ... 91:1-8 He that by faith chooses God for his protector, shall find all in him that he needs or can desire. ... Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me, for in you my soul takes refuge..

Christ's take on it:
Matthew 23:37
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
(And because of Him, you can put the o back in God, and go boldly, instead of out of fear).

As with Adam, (rest, on your first day on earth and let Me do everything for you)
to us, (Be still, rest in the Lord, and know that I am God)
to Jesus, (sit, while I make your enemies your footstool).
God never meant for you to foil Satan or your enemies on your own.

When God went into battle with David, David was victorious. When David took the reigns, not so much.
When Abraham went into battle and lifted his hands to God, he was winning. When his arms tired and came down, the tide of the battle would change. He had men hold his arms up for him so God would win the battle for him.
God protected the sinful Jews night and day in the wilderness, until they said no thanks, we've got it from here. God kept them alive. Persevering got them dead.

We are saved by grace through faith and nothing you can achieve changes that. (Eph.2: 8)
Faith comes from hearing the Word. We read the Word, because the Word isn't walking among us right now. He is sitting, while His Father acts against His enemies.

Nothing in the Torah has anything to do with jesus. And there is no such thing as magnifying the law

Everything has to do with Jesus.
Isaiah 42:21 tells us that Christ was sent to 'magnify' the Law and make it holy.
“The Lord was pleased, for His righteousness' sake" not by any human's perseverance. Sry.



ISAAC and JESUS

Only begotten Son Gen. 22:2 and John 3:16
Offered on a mountain, hill Gen. 22:2 and Matt. 21:10
Took donkey to place of sacrifice Gen. 22:3 and Matt. 21:2-11
Two men went with him Gen. 22:3 and Mark 15:27; Luke 23:33
Three day journey. Jesus: three days in the grave Gen. 22:4 and Luke 24:13-21
Son carried wood on his back up hill Gen. 22:6 and John 19:17
God will provide for Himself the lamb Gen. 22:8 and John 1:29
Son was offered on the wood Gen. 22:9 and Luke 23:33
Ram in thicket of thorns, crown of thorns Gen. 22:13 and John 19:2
The seed will be multiplied Gen. 22:17 Isiah 53:10 and John 1:12;
Abraham went down. Son didn't. (Isaac is "not mentioned" ) Gen. 22:19 and Luke 23:46
Servant, gets bride for son Gen. 24:1-4 and Eph. 5:22-32; Rev. 21:2,9; 22:17
The bride was a beautiful virgin Gen. 24:16 and 2 Cor. 11:2
Servant offered ten gifts to bride Gen. 22:10 and Rom. 6:23; 12; 1 Cor. 12

Zechariah 12:1-l0 In v.10 Jehovah says that they will “look upon me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as one mourns for an only son.”
David Ps.22:16 says, “they pierced my hands and my feet.”

Not to mention all of the Old Testament prophecies pertaining to the Messiah that Jesus fulfilled.
I mean, what are the odds!
The odds:
Probability of Christ Fulfilling Prophecy

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Right you are Jeremiah. Look at the apple of God's eye, David, a perfect example of paying the consequences of sin. It tore his family apart. David had the Spirit of God in Him, was accustom to listening to that Spirit, and truly loved God, and then turned around and loved his neighbor, and had a man killed, so he could continue to love his neighbor. He listened to the wrong spirit.
Even with the indwelling of God's spirit, it took Nathan to make David realize his own sin. David's repentant heart saved him.

While discussing the different spirits that try to lead us, one of my youth group kids asked me, "How do you know which spirit you are hearing"? I gave him the answer that Jesus gave, "my sheep know my voice". By reading the "Word", we hear the "Word". And the spirit grows by being fed.
That way if the 'soon to be grown up' child hears a voice that tells him it is ok to cheat on his taxes, because taxes aren't legal anyway, he'll also hear, "render unto Caesar what is belongs to Caesar" and be able to differentiate.

Just like Isiah said He would, Christ magnified the law, and through His righteousness, made it honorable. We are told to keep the Ten Commandments in the Old and New Testament. It may not be liberating, but it is sound direction, which in it's self is liberating.

And we are back to the issue of tithing/charity. They are not the same. Tithe goes to the church, charity to those you meet on the way to tithe to the church. Christians are fed in God's house, then and now, whether it be someone's living room, or a spacious cathedral. And the Holy Spirit grows.

People are the church. Absolutely. We are the bride, Christ is the bridegroom. We are not houses. When we hear, "come hither", not one brick will be caught up. And our churches are becoming as corrupt as our politicians. I go to the church my ancestors built 200 years ago. I teach children there. I do NOT tithe there. They pay alms to the organization/church that is propagating the one world religion, and didn't even realize it. They are not good stewards of my money.

Having said that, we need to be careful about judging churches based on their size, or beauty, or money. God has nothing against money or especially His people prospering. In fact He expects it. It is the greedy love of money that He has a problem with. One of Christ's followers was the richest man on earth. God's temple was bathed in gold. His streets are paved with it. He is building mansions for His children, not bungalows.

Remember the attitude shown to the woman who poured expensive oil on Christ, and was met with judgment by Christ's disciples for not selling the oil and endowing the poor instead of Christ? She wasn't wrong. They were.

What a beautifully written testimony of the gospel! Bravo! I really, really enjoyed reading this so much! Thank you for writing it. You know when I came to Christ I became homeless because I no longer was willing to be involved in dealing and all that. I quit. This is over 20 years ago for those of you wondering. Anyhow, I would get some money and put it all in the basket. I did this repeatedly. I gave everything I owned clothing furniture everything to the poor as I didn't work to get all that. I started with the clothes on my back and got a box of clothes from Benny Hinn Ministry as that was my first church and he was my Pastor. Orlando Christian Center 1989. Anyhow John Bevere was a pastor there, Kent Maddox, many famous ministers today came out of Pastor Bennys church. There were 10 Pastors under Pastor Benny. He is the one who baptised me in the Holy Ghost. He also was my teacher for prayer as I was part of his prayer team and would meet every Saturday with him at OCC.

Once he wrote Good morning Holy Spirit the church was packed out. You had to wait hours to get in and I was a Sunday School teacher there and my children would be lined up outside the door waiting to get in. The presence of God was so strong when people entered the santuary they nearly fell over. It was tangible, Gods presence, I used to see the Shekinah Glory cloud come down in there while he was ministering and oh! I was ready to go to heaven right then in those meetings. The Holy Spirit would come into those meetings with such power. It was always glorious. He's been in ministry for over 25 years now you know. It was hard to find a church like that one after he went on to the big ministry because he was traveling around the world.

This is what the Holy Spirit has shown me. The church age we are in right now is Laedocean. No question. There are churches throughout America who are awakening to the need to return to the Gospel. The good news that Jesus died for our sins and that he did this because loves us! If we are willing to give him our life he will give us his in exchange and what an exchange that is!

About the money changers. Jesus did it in broad daylight. So do I. I am not speaking to any specific pastor or even suggesting all pastors being money gospel preachers but I am saying the church has a serious problem on its hands. Remember I came out of a big church that ran beautifully by my Pastor ( Benny Hinn ) being led by the holy spirit as to how to run it. He got his direction from God and you see the results. Problem is the new ones I see coming up are focused on money and the tithe. I know one church in my own town that preached the tithe sermon every single Sunday until members said, when are we going to hear the gospel? And they left. So there's definitely something wrong because we are not seeing the miracles, the healings, the things that I am used to seeing.

The bible says without holiness no one will see the Lord. Of course that is true. They won't. But without holiness the church isn't going to see the power of God manifest in its meetings either. Pastor Benny was a man of prayer. My prayer life at its greatest point was about 7 - 10 hours of prayer per day ( in tongues ) Compare that to him and his praying 2 -3 days at a time without coming out. Do you want to know how disciplined Benny Hinn was as a prayer warrior? He was at a lavish dinner ( I believe it was in Israel at the King David Hotel ) and all of his guests were seated at the table. The food was served. He said the blessing over the meal picked up his fork and then? He quietly put it down without taking a bite and excused himself. Where was he going? The Lord had called him to prayer so he left the party, went to his hotel room and shut in to prayer for the night. That is Benny Hinn. He is sold out to God. Always has been.

I have been to many churches since Bennys and I see a disturbing trend with the prophecy crowd that always wants a word from God, etc. You know I have nothing against these things. But when it becomes excess I believe even the world can see it and knows something is not right. I give far more than 10%, I do believe that I am not under the law and God loves my giving to be cheerful. I give where God tells me to give. I would never get into a fight or arguement over whether tithing is old testament or for today. It is a silly arguement. Seriously. What does it matter if your Pastor is preaching and says in this church we tithe ten percent. What? Are people going to disobey their Pastors? Or worse yet lie about it? God forbid. No. As I said before I am very well versed in the scriptures to bring the tithes into the storehouse and believe money is probably the very least of Gods concerns. The bible says God owns all the gold and the silver and the cattle on a thousand hills. Amen? My point is that if I were in a 3rd world country with Heidi Baker we wouldn't be depending on your tithes and offerings to feed her 5000 orphans. God multiplies that food every single day supernaturally. They live by faith.

I guess you sensed my resentment that the western church has placed such an emphasis on making sure their members tithe and offer and its become ridiculous because they are no longer being led by the Spirit in their sermons. I can tell they are embellishing gospel stories to make it appear that Jesus really had an Arabian Stallion gold encrusted chariot rather than a pair of sandals and a ride on a donkey once. You know? Jesus didn't wear a rolex. That is all I'm saying. You know? Heidi was in deep intercessory prayer with God once and the Lord gave her a vision of two robes. One was a plain brown robe and the other was a lavish glorious gold threaded robe and he asked her which she would like while on the earth? She said the brown one. He told her that was the right choice that here we are called to be laborers. Can you imagine a Laborer wearing Cartier? LOL!! Ha! Ha! It just doesn't make sense, such silliness.

Here we are at the close of the age. The end days. The desperation of people in the world is almost palpable and the only thing this preacher could ask this message board is do you tithe on your gross or your net? Seriously? That should not be. I'm embarrassed for God that it even happened. As sure it the Lord lives that is my heart on the matter. May the Lord bless you. - Jeremiah

Beautiful! The Lord has your heart and it will be a so wonderful to see you and those like you ruling and reigning here on earth with Jesus the Christ. Your love and generosity is a blessing that blesses. So glad you're here.

Likewise. God is good. A wonderful woman invited me to this board, we were friends on another political board that closed down some time ago. She isn't here as she is retired from it but they thought I could help shed light on a matter that had been of great distress to the Israeli supporters. A Christian who had claimed to love Israel & the Jews yet was attacking them day after day and siding with terrorists whose aim it is to anilihate her. I had never met a christian in my life that didn't honor and respect the Jewish people and their privacy, their land, their traditions, customs, faith. I get really crushed in my spirit when I see things like that happening to Israel that I know are completely wrong. I felt that today again when I saw a famous basketball player, Dennis Rodman hugging and praising NK leader when I know my christian brothers and sisters are in slave labor camps there mass producing for NK govt to give to China to sell. It was so shocking and it made me think about people who used to pose with Hitler and I felt sick over it. There they are posing with a monster and innocent people are at that very moment enduring unspeakable horrorific torture. You should get the book Eyes of the Tailless animals. It is about a woman who was a prisoner there and escaped. This world has no idea of the evil behind the veil NK is hiding.


The camps in NK are like death camps, it is so horrific and yet the world goes on day after day as if this man is not hiding a monstrous secret when he is. I hope this doesn't sound political? I am trying to get out of sounding political, talking so much political stuff as I have done a great deal of that in past but now it seems as if everything is at the door. Its a time for this nation to pray like never before. I know we cannot do things that harm Israel and expect the LORD to bless us. It won't happen. Have a blessed evening.
- Jeremiah

I'm not used to so many people on one board. Wow.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Right you are Jeremiah. Look at the apple of God's eye, David, a perfect example of paying the consequences of sin. It tore his family apart. David had the Spirit of God in Him, was accustom to listening to that Spirit, and truly loved God, and then turned around and loved his neighbor, and had a man killed, so he could continue to love his neighbor. He listened to the wrong spirit.
Even with the indwelling of God's spirit, it took Nathan to make David realize his own sin. David's repentant heart saved him.

The "spirit of god" thing is obviously a christian concept.

David was a human being. He did great things, and he sinned as well.

W

hile discussing the different spirits that try to lead us, one of my youth group kids asked me, "How do you know which spirit you are hearing"? I gave him the answer that Jesus gave, "my sheep know my voice". By reading the "Word", we hear the "Word". And the spirit grows by being fed.
That way if the 'soon to be grown up' child hears a voice that tells him it is ok to cheat on his taxes, because taxes aren't legal anyway, he'll also hear, "render unto Caesar what is belongs to Caesar" and be able to differentiate.

Wrong again. The way jews get closer to G-D is by perservering against bad temptetation and doing what G-D asks of jews. It's the struggle that makes us closer to G-D.

Reading doesn't bring anyone closer to G-D. Actions do.

J

J ust like Isiah said He would, Christ magnified the law, and through His righteousness, made it honorable. We are told to keep the Ten Commandments in the Old and New Testament. It may not be liberating, but it is sound direction, which in it's self is liberating. .

Nothing in the Torah has anything to do with jesus. And there is no such thing as magnifying the law

Once again

Deuteronomy 4:2 NIV


Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you.

You either believe G-D or you believe jesus. You can't believe both.

And it's G-D that made jewish law honorable not the christian god. It is G-D that gave the law to the jews.

All I can tell you, CMike is I love reading your Torah. It is the most wonderful gift to be able to read the stories, your history, your heritage, it is truly a beautiful book the most beautiful of Books on the earth. Song of Solomon is my favorite. I love Davids Psalms, Solomons proverbs, it is beyond a masterpiece if any book is divine upon the earth today it is the Torah and of course the larger half of my bible. I do love it so. - Jeremiah

 

[The Irish Ram]

Amen and Amen Jeremiah, I saw and thought the same thing. And to see this country turn away from God, and embrace everything but Him, breaks my heart. That all nations, including the once blessed USA, will come against Israel breaks my heart. I talked to my Dad about it as it was he, a vet, that instilled in me such a patriotism for this country.
But he reassured me that all of these things must come to pass, before our Lord returns and true peace will be realized, and makes the process of watching Rev. unfold ok with my soul.
Maranatha Lord, Maranatha.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Jews were punished for worshipping the golden calf.

And that's not all.

Exodus 32:28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses; and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men...

And remember when Aaron had to grab the incense and run out among the Jews and ask God to stop dropping them like flies for going against Moses. And sadly the worst is yet to come for Israel, but God is faithful and keeps His promises. Israel will recognize Christ as their Messiah and He will sit on David's throne, among you forever. You are His chosen because Abraham was His friend.

The one God, one God, that you're stuck on is explained by the Trinity. Jesus was Emanuel. God, in the flesh. Jesus was the loving forgiving propitiation portion of God. The Holy Spirit is the strength of God.

Feel free to call Jesus God, because God does. And the only time Jesus called His abba< daddy, God, was when He was hanging on the cross. That's because He became us on that cross and was judged accordingly. That was us crying out.

Hebrew 1:5-9 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
&#8220;You are my Son;
today I have become your Father&#8221;?
Or again,
&#8220;I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son&#8221;?
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
&#8220;Let all God&#8217;s angels worship him.&#8221;
7 In speaking of the angels he says,
&#8220;He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.&#8221;
8 But about the Son he says,
&#8220;Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.&#8221;

One God, 3 ways.

 

[uscitizen]

give God seed money and he will repay you tenfold.

Never seen a check with gods name on it....

 

[The Irish Ram]

Does the repayment require cash? And have you tested Him with your money?
You can't win the lottery unless you buy a ticket.

 

[CMike]

Jews were punished for worshipping the golden calf.

And that's not all.

Exodus 32:28 And the children of Levi did according to the word of Moses; and there fell of the people that day about three thousand men...

And remember when Aaron had to grab the incense and run out among the Jews and ask God to stop dropping them like flies for going against Moses. And sadly the worst is yet to come for Israel, but God is faithful and keeps His promises. Israel will recognize Christ as their Messiah and He will sit on David's throne, among you forever. You are His chosen because Abraham was His friend.

The one God, one God, that you're stuck on is explained by the Trinity. Jesus was Emanuel. God, in the flesh. Jesus was the loving forgiving propitiation portion of God. The Holy Spirit is the strength of God.

Feel free to call Jesus God, because God does. And the only time Jesus called His abba< daddy, God, was when He was hanging on the cross. That's because He became us on that cross and was judged accordingly. That was us crying out.

Hebrew 1:5-9 For to which of the angels did God ever say,
“You are my Son;
today I have become your Father”?
Or again,
“I will be his Father,
and he will be my Son”?
6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
“Let all God’s angels worship him.”
7 In speaking of the angels he says,
“He makes his angels spirits,
and his servants flames of fire.”
8 But about the Son he says,
“Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.”

One God, 3 ways.

Israel will never turn away from G-D and worship false gods. There is no difference for jews between worshipping a golden calf or jesus. They are both false gods.

Also, the messiah will be a mortal man.

Jesus didn't fulfill any of the messianic prophesies.
They can be found in Ezekiel 37 and Michah 4:3

Those prophesies are:

World peace
All the jews will return to Israel and stay there
All nations will worship one G-D
The temple in Jerusalem will be rebuilt and stand forever.

And it's not the one G-D I talk about. It's the one G-D that G-D talks about.

Through numerous passages that I quoted
He said that:

He is one.
There is no other god
He is the first and the last
Rely on only him as your saviour
There is no other god other than him

No matter how you try and twist and turn it G-d made it crystal clear that there is only him in any form, and to worship anyone or anything else is a gigiantic sin.

And once again G-D said the law can't be changed. He said do no add or subtract from it.

Hey feel free to believe what you want, but it's very insulting how to pervert the Torah in a creative attempt to validate your beliefs

It's similar to saying that the christian bible is all about Mohammed.

 

[Gadawg73]

I give 10% to my local bartender.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Except Mohammad isn't Jewish. The Christian Bible concentrates on the Jew and the Gentile. To dis Jesus is to pervert the New Testament, yet you doing so doesn't insult me in the least. The earth may pass away, but Christ's words will endure forever.

A few prophecies:
1 Messiah would be born of a woman. Genesis 3:15 Matthew 1:20
Galatians 4:4
2 Messiah would be born in Bethlehem. Micah 5:2 Matthew 2:1
Luke 2:4-6
3 Messiah would be born of a virgin. Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:22-23
Luke 1:26-31
4 Messiah would come from the line of Abraham. Genesis 12:3
Genesis 22:18 Matthew 1:1
Romans 9:5
5 Messiah would be a descendant of Isaac. Genesis 17:19
Genesis 21:12 Luke 3:34
6 Messiah would be a descendant of Jacob. Numbers 24:17 Matthew 1:2
7 Messiah would come from the tribe of Judah. Genesis 49:10 Luke 3:33
Hebrews 7:14
8 Messiah would be heir to King David's throne. 2 Samuel 7:12-13
Isaiah 9:7 Luke 1:32-33
Romans 1:3
9 Messiah's throne will be anointed and eternal. Psalm 45:6-7
Daniel 2:44 Luke 1:33
Hebrews 1:8-12
10 Messiah would be called Immanuel. Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:23
11 Messiah would spend a season in Egypt. Hosea 11:1 Matthew 2:14-15
12 A massacre of children would happen at Messiah's birthplace. Jeremiah 31:15 Matthew 2:16-18
13 A messenger would prepare the way for Messiah Isaiah 40:3-5 Luke 3:3-6
14 Messiah would be rejected by his own people. Psalm 69:8
Isaiah 53:3 John 1:11
John 7:5
15 Messiah would be a prophet. Deuteronomy 18:15 Acts 3:20-22
16 Messiah would be preceded by Elijah. Malachi 4:5-6 Matthew 11:13-14
17 Messiah would be declared the Son of God. Psalm 2:7 Matthew 3:16-17
18 Messiah would be called a Nazarene. Isaiah 11:1 Matthew 2:23
19 Messiah would bring light to Galilee. Isaiah 9:1-2 Matthew 4:13-16
20 Messiah would speak in parables. Psalm 78:2-4
Isaiah 6:9-10 Matthew 13:10-15, 34-35
21 Messiah would be sent to heal the brokenhearted. Isaiah 61:1-2 Luke 4:18-19
22 Messiah would be a priest after the order of Melchizedek. Psalm 110:4 Hebrews 5:5-6
23 Messiah would be called King. Psalm 2:6
Zechariah 9:9 Matthew 27:37
Mark 11:7-11
24 Messiah would be praised by little children. Psalm 8:2 Matthew 21:16
25 Messiah would be betrayed. Psalm 41:9
Zechariah 11:12-13 Luke 22:47-48
Matthew 26:14-16
26 Messiah's price money would be used to buy a potter's field. Zechariah 11:12-13 Matthew 27:9-10
27 Messiah would be falsely accused. Psalm 35:11 Mark 14:57-58
28 Messiah would be silent before his accusers. Isaiah 53:7 Mark 15:4-5
29 Messiah would be spat upon and struck. Isaiah 50:6 Matthew 26:67
30 Messiah would be hated without cause. Psalm 35:19
Psalm 69:4 John 15:24-25
31 Messiah would be crucified with criminals. Isaiah 53:12 Matthew 27:38
Mark 15:27-28
32 Messiah would be given vinegar to drink. Psalm 69:21 Matthew 27:34
John 19:28-30
33 Messiah's hands and feet would be pierced. Psalm 22:16
Zechariah 12:10 John 20:25-27
34 Messiah would be mocked and ridiculed. Psalm 22:7-8 Luke 23:35
35 Soldiers would gamble for Messiah's garments. Psalm 22:18 Luke 23:34
Matthew 27:35-36
36 Messiah's bones would not be broken. Exodus 12:46
Psalm 34:20 John 19:33-36
37 Messiah would be forsaken by God. Psalm 22:1 Matthew 27:46
38 Messiah would pray for his enemies. Psalm 109:4 Luke 23:34
39 Soldiers would pierce Messiah's side. Zechariah 12:10 John 19:34
40 Messiah would be buried with the rich. Isaiah 53:9 Matthew 27:57-60
41 Messiah would resurrect from the dead. Psalm 16:10
Psalm 49:15 Matthew 28:2-7
Acts 2:22-32
42 Messiah would ascend to heaven. Psalm 24:7-10 Mark 16:19
Luke 24:51
43 Messiah would be seated at God's right hand. Psalm 68:18
44 Messiah would be a sacrifice for sin. Isaiah 53:5-12 Romans 5:6-8
I've already given you the odds of 1 man fulfilling just 8 of them.

Some prophecy has already been fulfilled. Some prophecy is being fulfilled now. Like Israel being surrounded by their enemies. Our interference in Egypt's affairs, has helped that prophesy along. All nations coming against the Jews? Sadly we are seeing that now. We are having "speaks" with Iran for wanting to wipe you off the face of the earth. Iran is thrilled. Russia too.
In fact if you read the NT you'll know exactly who is going to invade Israel, and why. Then see for yourself if the N.T is worth the read.

Some other prophetic events to come:
A one world gov.
Invasion of Israel.
Rebuilding the temple, returning to sacrificing, etc.
(Did you know that the cornerstones for new temple are ready? And that Jewish priests are being schooled for the temple duty? They haven't been preparing to do that for 2000 years and yet, and in keeping with NT prophecy they are now.
No red heifers for 2,000 years, until this generation. And this:

Zechariah 14:4
On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south.

You don't have to believe me, just acquaint yourself with Revelation and watch it unfold on the nightly news. God prophesied so you wouldn't have to believe me.

My intention isn't to insult you, and I have done nothing to the Torah. Christians are called to spread the good news. The good news is that Christ lives and is coming back, will sit on the throne of David, and dwell among us. If you didn't believe Jesus and His disciples when they told you that, you won't believe me either.
But what I want for you is to prosper, not persevere. To put the O back in GOD. To live in peace with your neighbors, and to fully enjoy the Lord.
Do you think God doesn't know who you are talking about if you leave the o out? You have nothing to fear from a loving God.

 

[CMike]

The "spirit of god" thing is obviously a christian concept.

David was Jewish when he said to God, "Take not thy spirit from me."

The way jews get closer to G-D is by perservering against bad temptetation and doing what G-D asks of jews. It's the struggle that makes us closer to G-D.

David the Jew's take on it:
Psalm 91:4
He will cover you with His feathers; you will take refuge under His wings. ... His truth shall be thy shield and buckler - His revelation; his Bible. ... 91:1-8 He that by faith chooses God for his protector, shall find all in him that he needs or can desire. ... Have mercy on me, O God, have mercy on me, for in you my soul takes refuge..

Christ's take on it:
Matthew 23:37
"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing.
(And because of Him, you can put the o back in God, and go boldly, instead of out of fear).

As with Adam, (rest, on your first day on earth and let Me do everything for you)
to us, (Be still, rest in the Lord, and know that I am God)
to Jesus, (sit, while I make your enemies your footstool).
God never meant for you to foil Satan or your enemies on your own.

When God went into battle with David, David was victorious. When David took the reigns, not so much.
When Abraham went into battle and lifted his hands to God, he was winning. When his arms tired and came down, the tide of the battle would change. He had men hold his arms up for him so God would win the battle for him.
God protected the sinful Jews night and day in the wilderness, until they said no thanks, we've got it from here. God kept them alive. Persevering got them dead.

We are saved by grace through faith and nothing you can achieve changes that. (Eph.2: 8)
Faith comes from hearing the Word. We read the Word, because the Word isn't walking among us right now. He is sitting, while His Father acts against His enemies.

Nothing in the Torah has anything to do with jesus. And there is no such thing as magnifying the law

Everything has to do with Jesus.
Isaiah 42:21 tells us that Christ was sent to 'magnify' the Law and make it holy.
“The Lord was pleased, for His righteousness' sake" not by any human's perseverance. Sry.



ISAAC and JESUS

Only begotten Son Gen. 22:2 and John 3:16
Offered on a mountain, hill Gen. 22:2 and Matt. 21:10
Took donkey to place of sacrifice Gen. 22:3 and Matt. 21:2-11
Two men went with him Gen. 22:3 and Mark 15:27; Luke 23:33
Three day journey. Jesus: three days in the grave Gen. 22:4 and Luke 24:13-21
Son carried wood on his back up hill Gen. 22:6 and John 19:17
God will provide for Himself the lamb Gen. 22:8 and John 1:29
Son was offered on the wood Gen. 22:9 and Luke 23:33
Ram in thicket of thorns, crown of thorns Gen. 22:13 and John 19:2
The seed will be multiplied Gen. 22:17 Isiah 53:10 and John 1:12;
Abraham went down. Son didn't. (Isaac is "not mentioned" ) Gen. 22:19 and Luke 23:46
Servant, gets bride for son Gen. 24:1-4 and Eph. 5:22-32; Rev. 21:2,9; 22:17
The bride was a beautiful virgin Gen. 24:16 and 2 Cor. 11:2
Servant offered ten gifts to bride Gen. 22:10 and Rom. 6:23; 12; 1 Cor. 12

Zechariah 12:1-l0 In v.10 Jehovah says that they will “look upon me whom they have pierced and mourn for him as one mourns for an only son.”
David Ps.22:16 says, “they pierced my hands and my feet.”

Not to mention all of the Old Testament prophecies pertaining to the Messiah that Jesus fulfilled.
I mean, what are the odds!
The odds:
Probability of Christ Fulfilling Prophecy

Yes, the Torah mentions sons, servants, blood, sacrifice, lambs, trees, rocks, etc.

However NONE of these have anything to do with your god.

You need to show how the Torah passages overtly refer to jesus.

Just because you find the word "son" in the Torah doesn't mean it has anything to do with jesus. In fact, it doesn't.

Jesus is part of the christian bible, he had nothing to do with judaism, other than challenging god and taking jews astray to worship a false god.

And once again he fulfilled zero of the prophesies.

You can find them in Ezekiel 37 and Michah 4:3.

 

[CMike]

Except Mohammad isn't Jewish. The Christian Bible concentrates on the Jew and the Gentile. To dis Jesus is to pervert the New Testament, yet you doing so doesn't insult me in the least. The earth may pass away, but Christ's words will endure forever.

Once jesus proclaimed himself a god and former jews followed him they weren't considered jews anymore. According to Judaism you have to pick your god.

A few prophecies:
1 Messiah would be born of a woman. Genesis 3:15 Matthew 1:20
Galatians 4:4

Yeah, no kidding. Most people are born from a woman.

3 Messiah would be born of a virgin. Isaiah 7:14 Matthew 1:22-23
Luke 1:26-31
4 Messiah would come from the line of Abraham. Genesis 12:3
Genesis 22:18 Matthew 1:1
Romans 9:5

Wrong. Christians once again perverted the Torah. The passage in Isaiah says the messiah will be born from a young maiden. Batulah is a virgen.

8 Messiah would be heir to King David's throne. 2 Samuel 7:12-13
Isaiah 9:7 Luke 1:32-33
Romans 1:3

That's true. Jesus wasn't


If you want to deal with each passage one at a time I'll be happy to. However, I'm not going to respond to such a list with no passages.

Here are the actual messianic prophesies. My commentary in blue.

Ezekiel 37


21. And say to them, So says the Lord God: Behold I will take the children of Israel from among the nations where they have gone, and I will gather them from every side, and I will bring them to their land.All the jew will go to Israel





22. And I will make them into one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel, and one king shall be to them all as a king; and they shall no longer be two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms anymore.There will be one unified king



23. And they shall no longer defile themselves with their idols, with their detestable things, or with all their transgressions, and I will save them from all their habitations in which they have sinned, and I will purify them, and they shall be to Me as a people, and I will be to them as a God.All nations will worship one G-D





24. And My servant David shall be king over them, and one shepherd shall be for them all, and they shall walk in My ordinances and observe My statutes and perform them.The messiah will be a descendent of David



25. And they shall dwell on the land that I have given to My servant, to Jacob, wherein your forefathers lived; and they shall dwell upon it, they and their children and their children's children, forever; and My servant David shall be their prince forever.All the jews will not only god to Israel but stay there




26. And I will form a covenant of peace for them, an everlasting covenant shall be with them; and I will establish them and I will multiply them, and I will place My Sanctuary in their midst forever.The the temple in jerusalem will be rebuilt and stand forever



27. And My dwelling place shall be over them, and I will be to them for a God, and they shall be to Me as a people.



28. And the nations shall know that I am the Lord, Who sanctifies Israel, when My Sanctuary is in their midst forever."
All nations will worship one G-D, and the temple in jerusalem will stand forever.

Michah 4

3. And he shall judge between many peoples and reprove mighty nations afar off; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nations shall not lift the sword against nation; neither shall they learn war anymore. World peace

So may have not noticed but:

• We don't have world peace
• All the jews are not in Israel
• All the jews aren't staying in Israel
• There hasn't been one unified king of the jews
• The temple in jerusalem has not been rebuilt. In fact, it was shortly after jesus that it was destroyed
• Jesus was not a descendent of David
• The messiah will be a mortal man

And most importantly G-D said to worship no one but him in any manner. He also said he is one. There are no separate parts.

G-D said one of the three sins you are supposed to sacrifice your life for is to worship anyone other than the one true G-D.

So for a jew to worship Jesus is the gravest of sins. It's an affront to G-D.

In fact, G-D specifically told jews not to worship gods that they do not know, and if someone tries to get them to do so to treat them harshly.

So worship whatever you want; a person, a chair,a golden calf, jesus, buddah, baal, whatever. However, you should know that the Torah in no way validates these beliefs.