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If it is true that doctors are not required to take on all patients for instance Medicare/Medicaid patients, then Care's claim that this doctor is unethical for choosing not to take on patients falls apart.
If a doctor is not required to take any patient that comes to his door then her argument falls apart.
How can a doctor fulfill that oath if he does not take on every person that walks through his door even those who tell him they won't be paying the bill?
Immie
No. Refusing certain insurances isn't the same thing as refusing certain people. Not to mention that just because a doctor doesn't accept your insurance doesn't mean he or she won't treat you.
Except that if a Diabetic loses their foot it is not the endocrinologist or family doctor who would do the surgery. It pays them to keep seeing the patient every 3 months. Some Surgeon would make the big bucks.
That's also an inadequate answer since many doctors combine their talents into one similar practice (partnering).
The point with using the diabetic analogy I think is that many diabetics can barely afford their insulin, let alone have regular monitoring by a private physician IF they have no insurance.
My 35 year old son has type 2 Diabetes with nerve damage in his feet and hands, he went undiagnosed in Europe (Social Medicine) for nearly 3 years. He has been back in the states for about 4 years now and was correctly diagnosed within 6 months. He has been laid off for 7 months now and still sees our family doctor and a Podiatrist every 3 months. He pays for the check ups and his medications and test strips with his unemployment checks.
And of course he cannot find work. He had coverage until he was laid off.
Doctors can have political views and be against certain bills...but should they take it out on their patients?
Is that professional?
Is that ethical?
Either way - no matter who I voted for, I would take my business elsewhere rather than see a group marginalized for their political beliefs.
He's not taking it out on his patients. The minute you show me that he has turned one single patient away who went through that door or even asked them to sign a document stating they did not support Obama or HCR, I will agree with you. Note: I've been asking people in the other thread to show that for a day and a half now, not one has been able to do so. Edit: whoops, it is this thread I have been asking it in.
He's making a statement to Congress, Obama and the country in general about HCR. Problem is... they aren't listening.
Immie
This is where the talking points collide. There can't be both a shortage of doctors and financial harm to a practicing doctor.He's not taking it out on his patients. The minute you show me that he has turned one single patient away who went through that door or even asked them to sign a document stating they did not support Obama or HCR, I will agree with you. Note: I've been asking people in the other thread to show that for a day and a half now, not one has been able to do so.
He's making a statement to Congress, Obama and the country in general about HCR. Problem is... they aren't listening.
Immie
And they won't listen until they realize that the shortage of Doctors has gotten critical.
That's also an inadequate answer since many doctors combine their talents into one similar practice (partnering).
The point with using the diabetic analogy I think is that many diabetics can barely afford their insulin, let alone have regular monitoring by a private physician IF they have no insurance.
My 35 year old son has type 2 Diabetes with nerve damage in his feet and hands, he went undiagnosed in Europe (Social Medicine) for nearly 3 years. He has been back in the states for about 4 years now and was correctly diagnosed within 6 months. He has been laid off for 7 months now and still sees our family doctor and a Podiatrist every 3 months. He pays for the check ups and his medications and test strips with his unemployment checks.
And of course he cannot find work. He had coverage until he was laid off.
I'm truly sorry for his condition. Diabetes is one of those diseases that most people think belong to old people, and it's especially hard on someone young. But I'll say the same thing I said to Immie. He could probably have his medical needs paid for by Medicaid if he is unemployed because of a layoff. While I realize with some people it's a matter of pride not to use a government program, "pride" can be an unnecessary killer.
He's not taking it out on his patients. The minute you show me that he has turned one single patient away who went through that door or even asked them to sign a document stating they did not support Obama or HCR, I will agree with you. Note: I've been asking people in the other thread to show that for a day and a half now, not one has been able to do so.
Don't you think posting that sign is enough? If you were someone who had voted for Obama....would you not feel dismayed and unwelcome?
He's making a statement to Congress, Obama and the country in general about HCR. Problem is... they aren't listening.
Immie
And they won't listen until they realize that the shortage of Doctors has gotten critical.
A Dr in private practice is required to accept medicare/medicaid patients?
no
Well Saveliberty, what about it? Are Dr's required to accept Medicare/Medicaid patients?
Or do they choose to and thereby live with the consequenses of their decision?
Do you think private insurance pays Doctors full fees ?
Are doctors required to accept private insurance?
It is a complicated question. Doctors frequently work in groups, sometimes the hospital or group may require the doctor to accept these patients. I think you inadvertly are pointing to the crisis at hand. Doctors are going to look at their new reinbursement rates and rules, then conclude they are going to reitire in large enough numbers to create a real rationing situation.
I don't think Care4All and her posse will allow that to happen. They put shock collars on doctors and chain them in their offices if needed.
I don't know if you knew this or not but those doctors took an oath.
Mayo Clinic in Arizona has already announced it will not accept new Medicare patients as well.
It's likely that the price controls mandated by ObamaCare will be at Medicare levels - what happens when doctors refuse to see ObamaCare patients?
No. Refusing certain insurances isn't the same thing as refusing certain people. Not to mention that just because a doctor doesn't accept your insurance doesn't mean he or she won't treat you.
It is most certainly analogous.
Patients can opt to pay in cash if they still wish to see the doctor who refuses their insurance.
Patients who have read the notice can still make an appointment to see the urologist who posted the sign. There is no proof that he actually refused to treat anyone.
It is a complicated question. Doctors frequently work in groups, sometimes the hospital or group may require the doctor to accept these patients. I think you inadvertly are pointing to the crisis at hand. Doctors are going to look at their new reinbursement rates and rules, then conclude they are going to reitire in large enough numbers to create a real rationing situation.
I don't think Care4All and her posse will allow that to happen. They put shock collars on doctors and chain them in their offices if needed.
I don't know if you knew this or not but those doctors took an oath.
Frankly, I don't think anyone can accurately predict how this will all turn out. Obviously, (VERY OBVIOUSLY), there will be changes along the line. So all the projections really mean nil.
What disturbs me more than anything is that so many people STILL assume incorrectly things that are contained in the final bill, such as claiming that they won't be able to keep their own insurance (among others).
My 35 year old son has type 2 Diabetes with nerve damage in his feet and hands, he went undiagnosed in Europe (Social Medicine) for nearly 3 years. He has been back in the states for about 4 years now and was correctly diagnosed within 6 months. He has been laid off for 7 months now and still sees our family doctor and a Podiatrist every 3 months. He pays for the check ups and his medications and test strips with his unemployment checks.
And of course he cannot find work. He had coverage until he was laid off.
I'm truly sorry for his condition. Diabetes is one of those diseases that most people think belong to old people, and it's especially hard on someone young. But I'll say the same thing I said to Immie. He could probably have his medical needs paid for by Medicaid if he is unemployed because of a layoff. While I realize with some people it's a matter of pride not to use a government program, "pride" can be an unnecessary killer.
Actually, he probably couldn't qualify for Medicaid unless he is declared disabled if he is a single adult, however, he could go to a federally funded clinic where he would pay only what he could afford and be given his medications and other diabetic supplies on the same basis.
I don't think Care4All and her posse will allow that to happen. They put shock collars on doctors and chain them in their offices if needed.
I don't know if you knew this or not but those doctors took an oath.
Frankly, I don't think anyone can accurately predict how this will all turn out. Obviously, (VERY OBVIOUSLY), there will be changes along the line. So all the projections really mean nil.
What disturbs me more than anything is that so many people STILL assume incorrectly things that are contained in the final bill, such as claiming that they won't be able to keep their own insurance (among others).
So you admit you don't know how it will turn out, but it is worth risking 80% of the public who like their coverage, just think it should cost less? Somehow you think good will come out of reduced doctor reimbursements, cuts to medicare D, adding high risk folks and more government involvement?
I'm truly sorry for his condition. Diabetes is one of those diseases that most people think belong to old people, and it's especially hard on someone young. But I'll say the same thing I said to Immie. He could probably have his medical needs paid for by Medicaid if he is unemployed because of a layoff. While I realize with some people it's a matter of pride not to use a government program, "pride" can be an unnecessary killer.
Actually, he probably couldn't qualify for Medicaid unless he is declared disabled if he is a single adult, however, he could go to a federally funded clinic where he would pay only what he could afford and be given his medications and other diabetic supplies on the same basis.
Medicaid benefits vary from state to state. When I was laid off in the 80's, I was not disabled and I was divorced. But I qualified for Medicaid; filled out the paperwork at the unemployment office. However, a friend of mine did not qualify because he had quit his job voluntarily.
No. Refusing certain insurances isn't the same thing as refusing certain people. Not to mention that just because a doctor doesn't accept your insurance doesn't mean he or she won't treat you.Well Saveliberty, what about it? Are Dr's required to accept Medicare/Medicaid patients?
Or do they choose to and thereby live with the consequenses of their decision?
Do you think private insurance pays Doctors full fees ?
Are doctors required to accept private insurance?
If it is true that doctors are not required to take on all patients for instance Medicare/Medicaid patients, then Care's claim that this doctor is unethical for choosing not to take on patients falls apart.
If a doctor is not required to take any patient that comes to his door then her argument falls apart.
How can a doctor fulfill that oath if he does not take on every person that walks through his door even those who tell him they won't be paying the bill?
Immie
Well Saveliberty, what about it? Are Dr's required to accept Medicare/Medicaid patients?
Or do they choose to and thereby live with the consequenses of their decision?
Do you think private insurance pays Doctors full fees ?
Are doctors required to accept private insurance?
If it is true that doctors are not required to take on all patients for instance Medicare/Medicaid patients, then Care's claim that this doctor is unethical for choosing not to take on patients falls apart.
If a doctor is not required to take any patient that comes to his door then her argument falls apart.
How can a doctor fulfill that oath if he does not take on every person that walks through his door even those who tell him they won't be paying the bill?
Immie
He/she can direct the person to a federally funded clinic, available everywhere in the US, or another free clinic or an ER, depending on the circumstances.
HRSA - Find a Health Center - Search Page
However, since this information is readily available to everyone, it is not clear he/she is obligated to do even this.
Doctors can have political views and be against certain bills...but should they take it out on their patients?
Is that professional?
Is that ethical?
Either way - no matter who I voted for, I would take my business elsewhere rather than see a group marginalized for their political beliefs.
He's not taking it out on his patients. The minute you show me that he has turned one single patient away who went through that door or even asked them to sign a document stating they did not support Obama or HCR, I will agree with you. Note: I've been asking people in the other thread to show that for a day and a half now, not one has been able to do so. Edit: whoops, it is this thread I have been asking it in.
He's making a statement to Congress, Obama and the country in general about HCR. Problem is... they aren't listening.
Immie
Of course the bill is signed into law now. Why didn't he join groups objecting before? Or hang his hateful sign out before?
