Does Bernie Sanders understand his socialism?

[Arianrhod]

Historically, socialism has been a stepping stone to communism.

No.

 

[TNHarley]

Historically, socialism has been a stepping stone to communism.

No.

According to Marxism, socialism would lead to communism but that hasn't been the case historically.

 

[Arianrhod]

Historically, socialism has been a stepping stone to communism.

No.

According to Marxism, socialism would lead to communism but that hasn't been the case historically.

You strike me as a moderate with a slight tilt to the left (I could be wrong). I get a kick out of the Rightist flailing on this board. Within the past week they've rehabilitated Nixon, embraced Marxist theory to try to prove some point about socialism they can't even define...what's next?

Will they turn on the Great God Reagan because of this?

 

[TNHarley]

Historically, socialism has been a stepping stone to communism.

No.

According to Marxism, socialism would lead to communism but that hasn't been the case historically.

You strike me as a moderate with a slight tilt to the left (I could be wrong). I get a kick out of the Rightist flailing on this board. Within the past week they've rehabilitated Nixon, embraced Marxist theory to try to prove some point about socialism they can't even define...what's next?

Will they turn on the Great God Reagan because of this?

I wouldn't say I tilt either way.. My views are all over the spectrum. You cant be defined by a simple branding when you try to use logic and solutions.
If I could brand my self anything, it would be a classic liberal. The 3 main important things to me are liberty our constitution and a small federal government. I don't believe in this bloated bullshit.
And I don't like Reagan. lol

 

[Disir]

I hope Disir comes and clears all this up

He's actually pro-labor rather than pro-immigration. That's what his track record has been. So, what's the problem?

I clearly pointed that out.

No. You want to play another round of ideology about someone that you don't know and you don't give a shit about.

Sanders has continuously been against bringing in guest workers. If you don't get these people to come forward or "out of the shadows" then they are at risk for abuse and they will continue to decrease the wages of American workers. That essentially puts those that do the hiring, Democrats and the activists on notice. By telling those that do the hiring that you have to pay these people the same as you do American workers then they have zero incentive to hire them. . If you have been paying attention, it's the same rational behind unionizing. If all of these undocumented workers join unions and get the same rights as American citizens then they don't make much of a profit and it's not worth their while.

Then there are extra penalties:
Authorize and substantially increase funding for the Legal Services Corporation to provide legal representation to guest workers who have been abused by their employers. Further, employers should be required to reimburse guest workers for housing, transportation expenses and workers’ compensation.

And more:

Opposed NAFTA, CAFTA, permanent normal trade relations (PNTR) with China, the TPP, and other free-trade agreements. These deals kill American jobs by shifting work overseas to nations which fail to provide worker protections and pay extremely low wages.

That’s why Bernie has been a strong supporter of the Employee Free Choice Act, which would make it easier for workers to organize and bargain collectively.

In 2008, Sen. Sanders traveled to the tomato fields of southern Florida and met with migrant workers who were paid paltry wages for back-breaking work. After his visit, Sanders invited leaders of the Coalition of Immokalee Workers to come to Washington and testify at a Senate committee hearing where they confronted growers on abusive labor practices. The result in Immokalee, Florida was better working conditions and increased pay.

But how many more Immokalees are out there? How many fields or factories are there where people – often without legal status – are used up and thrown away? We cannot continue to run an economy where millions are made so vulnerable because of their undocumented status.

Many in the business community have argued for a massive expansion of temporary guest worker programs as the answer to the immigration issue. That is not the answer. As the Southern Poverty Law Center has documented, guest workers are routinely cheated out of wages, held virtually captive by employers who seize their documents, forced to live in inhumane conditions and denied medical treatment for on-the-job injuries.

What he will not do is demonize the powerless. He will go after those that have the power. That is the primary difference between many on the right who operate on the if you terrorize them then they will leave on their own method and Sanders.

Bernie Sanders has spoken a lot about how the trade policies have done damage not just to the US but to other countries. He has also been very vocal about the disaster that we call the IMF. It puts the Democrats and the Republicans on notice. You cannot go into another country and wreak havoc that benefits no one but those at the top and not expect people to try to leave the country or for their to be an increase in violence. This is the world that the trade policies and the IMF in combination with the World Bank has created. It does not serve the people.

All of these issues are connected.

He's the only one bringing up these trade policies that have hurt the average worker in this country.

He's been very vocal about H1B visas, IMF, trade policies and labor and backs it up. In fact, he makes Luis Guttierez look like a douche without trying and absolutely smacked the crap out of Juan Carlos Lopez at the debates. I mean, unless Juan Carlos Lopez somehow profits from slavery and has some insane reason to keep hiring undocumented workers. Poor activists won't have anything to protest if you fix it.

 

[TNHarley]

I hope Disir comes and clears all this up

He's actually pro-labor rather than pro-immigration. That's what his track record has been. So, what's the problem?

I clearly pointed that out.

No. You want to play another round of ideology about someone that you don't know and you don't give a shit about.

Sanders has continuously been against bringing in guest workers. If you don't get these people to come forward or "out of the shadows" then they are at risk for abuse and they will continue to decrease the wages of American workers. That essentially puts those that do the hiring, Democrats and the activists on notice. By telling those that do the hiring that you have to pay these people the same as you do American workers then they have zero incentive to hire them. . If you have been paying attention, it's the same rational behind unionizing. If all of these undocumented workers join unions and get the same rights as American citizens then they don't make much of a profit and it's not worth their while.

Then there are extra penalties:
Authorize and substantially increase funding for the Legal Services Corporation to provide legal representation to guest workers who have been abused by their employers. Further, employers should be required to reimburse guest workers for housing, transportation expenses and workers’ compensation.

And more:

Opposed NAFTA, CAFTA, permanent normal trade relations (PNTR) with China, the TPP, and other free-trade agreements. These deals kill American jobs by shifting work overseas to nations which fail to provide worker protections and pay extremely low wages.

That’s why Bernie has been a strong supporter of the Employee Free Choice Act, which would make it easier for workers to organize and bargain collectively.

In 2008, Sen. Sanders traveled to the tomato fields of southern Florida and met with migrant workers who were paid paltry wages for back-breaking work. After his visit, Sanders invited leaders of the Coalition of Immokalee Workers to come to Washington and testify at a Senate committee hearing where they confronted growers on abusive labor practices. The result in Immokalee, Florida was better working conditions and increased pay.

But how many more Immokalees are out there? How many fields or factories are there where people – often without legal status – are used up and thrown away? We cannot continue to run an economy where millions are made so vulnerable because of their undocumented status.

Many in the business community have argued for a massive expansion of temporary guest worker programs as the answer to the immigration issue. That is not the answer. As the Southern Poverty Law Center has documented, guest workers are routinely cheated out of wages, held virtually captive by employers who seize their documents, forced to live in inhumane conditions and denied medical treatment for on-the-job injuries.

What he will not do is demonize the powerless. He will go after those that have the power. That is the primary difference between many on the right who operate on the if you terrorize them then they will leave on their own method and Sanders.

Bernie Sanders has spoken a lot about how the trade policies have done damage not just to the US but to other countries. He has also been very vocal about the disaster that we call the IMF. It puts the Democrats and the Republicans on notice. You cannot go into another country and wreak havoc that benefits no one but those at the top and not expect people to try to leave the country or for their to be an increase in violence. This is the world that the trade policies and the IMF in combination with the World Bank has created. It does not serve the people.

All of these issues are connected.

He's the only one bringing up these trade policies that have hurt the average worker in this country.

He's been very vocal about H1B visas, IMF, trade policies and labor and backs it up. In fact, he makes Luis Guttierez look like a douche without trying and absolutely smacked the crap out of Juan Carlos Lopez at the debates. I mean, unless Juan Carlos Lopez somehow profits from slavery and has some insane reason to keep hiring undocumented workers. Poor activists won't have anything to protest if you fix it.

And like the OP points out, he wants amnesty and expansion... Weird..

 

[Contumacious]

As president, Senator Bernie Sanders will:

1. Sign comprehensive immigration reform into law to bring over 11 million undocumented workers out of the shadows. We cannot continue to run an economy where millions are made so vulnerable because of their undocumented status.
2. Oppose tying immigration reform to the building of a border fence. Undocumented workers come to the United States to escape economic hardship and political persecution. Tying reform to unrealistic and unwise border patrol proposals renders the promise illusory for millions seeking legal status.
3. Sign the DREAM Act into law to offer the opportunity of permanent residency and eventual citizenship to young people who were brought to the United States as children. We must recognize the young men and women who comprise the DREAMers for who they are – American kids who deserve the right to legally be in the country they know as home.
4. Expand President Obama’s Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program to include the parents of citizens, parents of legal permanent residents, and the parents of DREAMERs. We need to pursue policies that unites families and does not tear them apart.
5. Authorize and substantially increase funding for the Legal Services Corporation to provide legal representation to guest workers who have been abused by their employers. Further, employers should be required to reimburse guest workers for housing, transportation expenses and workers’ compensation.
6. Substantially increase prevailing wages that employers are required to pay temporary guest workers. If there is a true labor shortage, employers should be offering higher, not lower wages.
7. Rewrite our trade policies to end the race to the bottom and lift the living standards of workers in this country and our trading partners. Not only have free trade agreements like NAFTA and CAFTA hurt U.S. workers, they have been a disaster for small farmers in Mexico and Central America

---------
He likes to throw up Denmark as we could all tell form the debates. Why didn't he mention them when he was spouting his rhetoric about immigration? Is it because they have some of the strictest laws in the world? Imagine that, a democratic socialist country not bending backwords for illegals?
What about Sweden?
Do they actually UNDERSTAND what democratic socialism means and know they cant have immigration like we do?Sweden: Why Socialism and Immigration Clash - The Last Resistance


Jimmie Akesson, the leader of the Sweden Democrats, has a simple explanation for the lack of jobs. “If you allow more asylum seekers into the country than the number of jobs you can create, the result is obvious,” he said in a recent speech. Sweden expects more than 90,000 asylum seekers this year, a huge number in a county of only 10 million people. According to the United Nations, Sweden received the most asylum applications per person in the world from 2009 through 2013. . . . Akesson calls for cutting back on asylum acceptances, requiring immigrants to pass language tests, and trimming immigrants’ welfare benefits.



Immigration To Denmark - Immigration | Laws.com

People who are seeking immigration to Denmark have a high chance of acceptance if they are well educated in respective fields of education and professional studies
So they don't let bottom of the barrel losers in. Why cant they be like Bernie? He wants to legalize criminals.. Why doesn't Denmark do that? Is it because they care about their citizens?
Another snip :
This is because there is a large job shortage in Denmark, and they are looking for immigration to Denmark in order to solve this.
---
LOL imagine that. No one working.. Is it because they tax the fuck out of everyone and they don't have a reason to work? Sorry, I digress..


Why cant people ever be consistent with their bullshit? It is because he is ignorant on his premise, or is it just pandering? If its just pandering, he doesn't care about America the way he says he does..

Comrade Sanders does NOT have to understand socialism.


As a demagogue politician he only has to understand the mentality of the typical American elector.

He knows that the majority of the electorate are NARCOTIZED and will react favorably to sound bites hyping free lunches, free education, something for nothing .

Clear now?


.

 

[Disir]

I did. You just aren't very intelligent.

ALL you did was prove my OP. You are just biased because you cant wipe your ass. I have you figured out whether you like it or not..

No, little dimwitted one, you're the same little know-nothing drama queen as you were under another ID.

We're done here.

I have had the same Id for years, on every forum I have joined. But thanks!
You think you refuted my OP by posting some other bullshit he said, like he never did say what I posted. LOL Ok. Have a good day!

I never said that he didn't say what you posted, I put the rest of what he has said into it because.........it's all connected. Yep. You can continue to fuck off.

So you didnt refute what I said? WTF
I thought you were leaving?

I did. You took the shit out of context and then said, lalalala. You needed it to be explained. I explained it.

He's actually pro-labor rather than pro-immigration. That's what his track record has been. So, what's the problem?

I clearly pointed that out.

No. You want to play another round of ideology about someone that you don't know and you don't give a shit about.

Sanders has continuously been against bringing in guest workers. If you don't get these people to come forward or "out of the shadows" then they are at risk for abuse and they will continue to decrease the wages of American workers. That essentially puts those that do the hiring, Democrats and the activists on notice. By telling those that do the hiring that you have to pay these people the same as you do American workers then they have zero incentive to hire them. . If you have been paying attention, it's the same rational behind unionizing. If all of these undocumented workers join unions and get the same rights as American citizens then they don't make much of a profit and it's not worth their while.

Then there are extra penalties:
Authorize and substantially increase funding for the Legal Services Corporation to provide legal representation to guest workers who have been abused by their employers. Further, employers should be required to reimburse guest workers for housing, transportation expenses and workers’ compensation.

And more:

Opposed NAFTA, CAFTA, permanent normal trade relations (PNTR) with China, the TPP, and other free-trade agreements. These deals kill American jobs by shifting work overseas to nations which fail to provide worker protections and pay extremely low wages.

That’s why Bernie has been a strong supporter of the Employee Free Choice Act, which would make it easier for workers to organize and bargain collectively.

In 2008, Sen. Sanders traveled to the tomato fields of southern Florida and met with migrant workers who were paid paltry wages for back-breaking work. After his visit, Sanders invited leaders of the Coalition of Immokalee Workers to come to Washington and testify at a Senate committee hearing where they confronted growers on abusive labor practices. The result in Immokalee, Florida was better working conditions and increased pay.

But how many more Immokalees are out there? How many fields or factories are there where people – often without legal status – are used up and thrown away? We cannot continue to run an economy where millions are made so vulnerable because of their undocumented status.

Many in the business community have argued for a massive expansion of temporary guest worker programs as the answer to the immigration issue. That is not the answer. As the Southern Poverty Law Center has documented, guest workers are routinely cheated out of wages, held virtually captive by employers who seize their documents, forced to live in inhumane conditions and denied medical treatment for on-the-job injuries.

What he will not do is demonize the powerless. He will go after those that have the power. That is the primary difference between many on the right who operate on the if you terrorize them then they will leave on their own method and Sanders.

Bernie Sanders has spoken a lot about how the trade policies have done damage not just to the US but to other countries. He has also been very vocal about the disaster that we call the IMF. It puts the Democrats and the Republicans on notice. You cannot go into another country and wreak havoc that benefits no one but those at the top and not expect people to try to leave the country or for their to be an increase in violence. This is the world that the trade policies and the IMF in combination with the World Bank has created. It does not serve the people.

All of these issues are connected.

He's the only one bringing up these trade policies that have hurt the average worker in this country.

He's been very vocal about H1B visas, IMF, trade policies and labor and backs it up. In fact, he makes Luis Guttierez look like a douche without trying and absolutely smacked the crap out of Juan Carlos Lopez at the debates. I mean, unless Juan Carlos Lopez somehow profits from slavery and has some insane reason to keep hiring undocumented workers. Poor activists won't have anything to protest if you fix it.

And like the OP points out, he wants amnesty and expansion... Weird..

You have to be eligible to participate in the programs especially DACA. Just because it exists does not guarantee eligibility. If you tie the border fence into legislation then you will not get it through. You still have a law on the books for a fence. It was passed in 2006. If you put more into border patrol and not into the hiring of Judges and staff then you are at risk, as Obama has created it, of releasing just as many back into the street to await for court. So, does putting more into border patrol where they currently have more than ever and nothing into courts to process them make sense to you? Of course it does.

Does saying: hey come out of the shadows and we can nail the businesses that are hiring you promise that they will meet eligibility requirements? Of course not. Except in your world.

You either want rhetoric or you want to get shit done. You prefer rhetoric.

 

[TNHarley]

ALL you did was prove my OP. You are just biased because you cant wipe your ass. I have you figured out whether you like it or not..

No, little dimwitted one, you're the same little know-nothing drama queen as you were under another ID.

We're done here.

I have had the same Id for years, on every forum I have joined. But thanks!
You think you refuted my OP by posting some other bullshit he said, like he never did say what I posted. LOL Ok. Have a good day!

I never said that he didn't say what you posted, I put the rest of what he has said into it because.........it's all connected. Yep. You can continue to fuck off.

So you didnt refute what I said? WTF
I thought you were leaving?

I did. You took the shit out of context and then said, lalalala. You needed it to be explained. I explained it.

I clearly pointed that out.

No. You want to play another round of ideology about someone that you don't know and you don't give a shit about.

Sanders has continuously been against bringing in guest workers. If you don't get these people to come forward or "out of the shadows" then they are at risk for abuse and they will continue to decrease the wages of American workers. That essentially puts those that do the hiring, Democrats and the activists on notice. By telling those that do the hiring that you have to pay these people the same as you do American workers then they have zero incentive to hire them. . If you have been paying attention, it's the same rational behind unionizing. If all of these undocumented workers join unions and get the same rights as American citizens then they don't make much of a profit and it's not worth their while.

Then there are extra penalties:
Authorize and substantially increase funding for the Legal Services Corporation to provide legal representation to guest workers who have been abused by their employers. Further, employers should be required to reimburse guest workers for housing, transportation expenses and workers’ compensation.

And more:

Opposed NAFTA, CAFTA, permanent normal trade relations (PNTR) with China, the TPP, and other free-trade agreements. These deals kill American jobs by shifting work overseas to nations which fail to provide worker protections and pay extremely low wages.

That’s why Bernie has been a strong supporter of the Employee Free Choice Act, which would make it easier for workers to organize and bargain collectively.

In 2008, Sen. Sanders traveled to the tomato fields of southern Florida and met with migrant workers who were paid paltry wages for back-breaking work. After his visit, Sanders invited leaders of the Coalition of Immokalee Workers to come to Washington and testify at a Senate committee hearing where they confronted growers on abusive labor practices. The result in Immokalee, Florida was better working conditions and increased pay.

But how many more Immokalees are out there? How many fields or factories are there where people – often without legal status – are used up and thrown away? We cannot continue to run an economy where millions are made so vulnerable because of their undocumented status.

Many in the business community have argued for a massive expansion of temporary guest worker programs as the answer to the immigration issue. That is not the answer. As the Southern Poverty Law Center has documented, guest workers are routinely cheated out of wages, held virtually captive by employers who seize their documents, forced to live in inhumane conditions and denied medical treatment for on-the-job injuries.

What he will not do is demonize the powerless. He will go after those that have the power. That is the primary difference between many on the right who operate on the if you terrorize them then they will leave on their own method and Sanders.

Bernie Sanders has spoken a lot about how the trade policies have done damage not just to the US but to other countries. He has also been very vocal about the disaster that we call the IMF. It puts the Democrats and the Republicans on notice. You cannot go into another country and wreak havoc that benefits no one but those at the top and not expect people to try to leave the country or for their to be an increase in violence. This is the world that the trade policies and the IMF in combination with the World Bank has created. It does not serve the people.

All of these issues are connected.

He's the only one bringing up these trade policies that have hurt the average worker in this country.

He's been very vocal about H1B visas, IMF, trade policies and labor and backs it up. In fact, he makes Luis Guttierez look like a douche without trying and absolutely smacked the crap out of Juan Carlos Lopez at the debates. I mean, unless Juan Carlos Lopez somehow profits from slavery and has some insane reason to keep hiring undocumented workers. Poor activists won't have anything to protest if you fix it.

And like the OP points out, he wants amnesty and expansion... Weird..

You have to be eligible to participate in the programs especially DACA. Just because it exists does not guarantee eligibility. If you tie the border fence into legislation then you will not get it through. You still have a law on the books for a fence. It was passed in 2006. If you put more into border patrol and not into the hiring of Judges and staff then you are at risk, as Obama has created it, of releasing just as many back into the street to await for court. So, does putting more into border patrol where they currently have more than ever and nothing into courts to process them make sense to you? Of course it does.

Does saying: hey come out of the shadows and we can nail the businesses that are hiring you promise that they will meet eligibility requirements? Of course not. Except in your world.

You either want rhetoric or you want to get shit done. You prefer rhetoric.

I would like to actually fix the immigration problem. Not give all these people amnesty and EXPAND the bullshit we already have for them.
Talk about rhetoric, WTF do you think amnesty is going to do? Has it EVER worked?
I like solutions. Not this bullshit. You people need to grow the fuck up.

 

[TNHarley]

Here : TNHarleys solution to the immigration problem | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum

Disir