Does raising the minimum wage reduce poverty?

[Grumblenuts]

Should what's too low really be the governments decision?

Sure appears to beat leaving it up to you!

It doesn't really make a difference to me in the end.

 

[Anomalism]

Wait, before moving your own goalposts from simply "raising" the existing MW of $7.25 / hr to $15 / hr or $15 - $20 / hr.. Before pretending no cash economy exists or that what there is can somehow just be ignored as insignificant.. Before continuing to reduce people to widgets whose apparent worth to you is only their job, income, or working "opportunity".. Before injecting ever more but whattaboutthis and whattaboutthat..

You titled this "Does raising the Minimum Wage reduce poverty?".. Well, does it, punk? If you're so cock sure that doesn't at least provide some compelling statistical evidence to support your claim.

Does increasing the minimum wage reduce poverty in developing countries?

Whether raising minimum wages reduces—or increases—poverty depends on the characteristics of the labor market

wol.iza.org

That link says raising minimum wage can sometimes do the opposite of what it's supposed to. It can increase poverty instead, and I bet the reasons are related to what I've already said.

Maybe there are better ways to reduce poverty. Maybe the government shouldn't be trying to control wages.

 

[Anomalism]

Sure appears to beat leaving it up to you!

I think it should be left up to the employer and the employee.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That link says raising minimum wage can sometimes do the opposite of what it's supposed to. It can increase poverty instead, and I bet the reasons are related to what I've already said.

Maybe there are better ways to reduce poverty. Maybe the government shouldn't be trying to control wages.

Our government (particularly on the left) believe in rewarding people that don't try. Can you blame people when they don't? Extra unemployment from February until September gave us a labor shortage and contributed to our inflation that we haven't seen in 30 years. Social programs are generous enough where people can support themselves so there is no reason to work. For those that do work if you increase their wages, they will work less hours so as not to interfere with what government gives them.

 

[Anomalism]

Our government (particularly on the left) believe in rewarding people that don't try. Can you blame people when they don't? Extra unemployment from February until September gave us a labor shortage and contributed to our inflation that we haven't seen in 30 years. Social programs are generous enough where people can support themselves so there is no reason to work. For those that do work if you increase their wages, they will work less hours so as not to interfere with what government gives them.

If there's a problem with lethargy among the poor in this country I'm sure it's related to the obesity crisis.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

If there's a problem with lethargy among the poor in this country I'm sure it's related to the obesity crisis.

Actually most of it is related to drugs. I've seen so many good people lose their jobs even though hard workers, dependable, and even people who were promoted within the company.

Several years ago I was renting to a young couple. She worked at Pizza Hut and him at McDonald's. They were late with rent all the time, but I was never the kind of landlord that demanded rent be at the first of the month. Just as long as I got it.

They drove an old beat up car, replaced tires on the damn thing every two weeks, but somehow they always made it to work. The problem? Big pot smokers and neither would (or could) give it up. They moved about six years ago and I don't know what happened to them, but I always hoped they'd give up the dope and start to pursue a career of some kind.

I used to deliver to a local steel factory. The guy who loaded me asked if I knew anybody looking for a good job? I asked why they didn't just put an ad in the Help Wanted section, and he told me they do it all the time. They bring everybody in on one day and meet in the company cafeteria. The HR person who conducted the interviews held a seminar about the company and opportunities available. He said they usually got in the area of 15 people. The first thing the HR person does is inform everybody they do random drug screenings, and if anybody there couldn't pass one, they are wasting their time sitting through the seminar and application process. He said out of the 15, about a dozen would walk out of the room.

We will never be able to stop companies from drug screens. They get cheaper workman's comp rates if they have them, and as we all know, insurance companies actually control this country so drug tests will never be illegal.

 

[danielpalos]

If the answer is no, and I'm pretty sure it is, then why have a minimum wage at all? If you raise the minimum wage to $15 all you're doing is ensuring that any job worth less than that won't exist legally, and that means unskilled people will have less job opportunities and less possibilities for expanding their value in the market. Grown people should not be inhibited by the government when it comes to their ability to negotiate their own labor. It's immoral, patronizing and it doesn't actually achieve its intended effect. It does ensure less jobs and less business opportunities though.

The minimum wage is well-intentioned, and our economy can survive despite it, but all it really does is limit the people that are worth the least. The impact a $15/hr minimum wage would have on the job market, particularly in more rural states, is no doubt massive. I consider myself left wing. I support a lot of left wing ideas. This is not one of them though. There shouldn't be a minimum wage. It's not actually helping poor people. I think it's bad for everybody.

It can reduce poverty it just can't solve simple poverty.

 

[DudleySmith]

I realize that you do not understand basic economics but you have bought into the crazy economics. There are those that use those type of things in the hope that it makes them appear smart.

Nah, I just understand math a lot better than you do, and know for a fact that it isn't wages driving up prices, wages always lag inflation, not lead it. In fact wages have lagged inflation by so much that now the hacks have gullible people believing $20 an hour is some drastic amount, mostly people who themselves would feel embarrassed at barely making minimum wage now and need to feel 'Special' because they're making more than some person making $10 an hour. I realize you feel embarrassed by what minimum wages would be if properly adjusted for inflation, because that reality would make many here look like true dumbasses for working so cheap.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Nah, I just understand math a lot better than you do, and know for a fact that it isn't wages driving up prices, wages always lag inflation, not lead it.

If we had a normal economy you'd be correct. But this is the first time in history the government paid people to stay home instead of work. That created a labor shortage and the only way for business to get the available labor was to drastically increase wage offers. The more they pay for labor, the more they have to charge for products or services. Yes, that leads to inflation.

 

[DudleySmith]

Nobody is forced to work minimum wage. It's a choice.

lol rubbish. First the right is claiming 'minimum wages causes inflation;, which is patently false, then in the next narrative they claim nobody is paying it anyway; can't make up their minds on which argument to use, since they're basically making both arguments up anyway, base on ideology, not 'economics'.

 

[DudleySmith]

If we had a normal economy you'd be correct. But this is the first time in history the government paid people to stay home instead of work. That created a labor shortage and the only way for business to get the available labor was to drastically increase wage offers. The more they pay for labor, the more they have to charge for products or services. Yes, that leads to inflation.

One day right wingers brag about ' low employment' under Trump, the next they claim 'everybody is screwing off and companies can't find enough cheap help'. Do we have low unemployment rates or not? I already pointed out outsourcing high productivity jobs and trying to replace them with low productivity service industry jobs isn't a good thing, but you seem think that means 'all those other people are somehow obligated to work harder and cheaper' to keep business owners and shareholders fat and happy or something, Then you express disappointment when they do make all those 'choices' you claim they have, like telling businessmen to fuck off unless they make offers worthwhile to get out of bed for.

Skills make more??? Rubbish. The country needs more bricklayers? Hire trainees, like they had to do in the good old days. Job sucks too bad when there are better ones out there? Too bad, shouldn't have fucked over the last ones by hiring criminal illegal aliens who wandered off to do something else instead of hanging around starving waiting for business to pick up for years.

There are only X numbers of bricklayer jobs open; if there are suddenly 4X numbers of people with that skill, wages are not going to go up, period, they will go down, and 3X numbers of people will go away eventually and never come back to bricklaying.

 

[eagle1462010]

One day right wingers brag about ' low employment' under Trump, the next they claim 'everybody is screwing off and companies can't find enough cheap help'. Do we have low unempoyment rates or not? I already pointed out outsourcing high productivity jobs and trying to replace them with low productivity service industry jobs isn't a good thing, but you seem think that means 'all those other people are somehow obligated to work harder and cheaper' to keep business owners and shareholders fat and happy or something, Then you express disappointment when they do make all those 'choices' you claim they have, like telling businessmen to fuck off unless they make offers worthwhile to get out of bed for.

Plannedemic changed all that. Boom to bust in a matter of months. Small businesses getting destroyed. And FREE MONEY for all. So when we open back up people didn't want to go back to work when they can sit and get a check at more money than before.

Then people go why aren't people taking the jobs.................Now shortages.......inflation.........and lack of people wanting to work..............Nice job if you were trying to totally screw our nation.

 

[DudleySmith]

Plannedemic changed all that. Boom to bust in a matter of months. Small businesses getting destroyed. And FREE MONEY for all. So when we open back up people didn't want to go back to work when they can sit and get a check at more money than before.

Then people go why aren't people taking the jobs.................Now shortages.......inflation.........and lack of people wanting to work..............Nice job if you were trying to totally screw our nation.

Booms and busts have been going on forever. If you think people should work for nothing then lead by example and rescue the country.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

lol rubbish. First the right is claiming 'minimum wages causes inflation;, which is patently false, then in the next narrative they claim nobody is paying it anyway; can't make up their minds on which argument to use, since they're basically making both arguments up anyway, base on ideology, not 'economics'.

Actually it's proof of what we say. Correct, very few are making minimum wage today, and prior to this labor shortage very few made MW back then; something like 2.5% of the workforce. But the reason we fought a $15.00 minimum wage was to avoid what we're experiencing today. We have a labor shortage because people were conditioned to stay home and inflation because everything costs so much more.

You can't raise wages for just one group of people. It creates a domino effect.

The two leftist myths we've been trying to put to rest are 1. When the employer has more business costs, he must dig deeper into his pocket. Never happened and never will. He or she pass all costs to the consumer. 2. Wages are the only concern an employer has. Wrong. Wages are just the start. When an employer increases wages, they have many other costs that go up as well such as matching the employees SS and Medicare contributions, higher workman's compensation and unemployment insurance rates, losing more money when the employee is paid for not working such as vacation and holidays.

 

[eagle1462010]

Booms and busts have been going on forever. If you think people should work for nothing then lead by example and rescue the country.

Not the same and you know it. This was a manipulated bust on an epic scale while they slung money out windows to the mob so they wouldn't lynch the politicians.

Now the end result is BS. And it didn't change a damned thing with Covid.

 

[WTH_Progs?]

Govt. needs to stay out of it.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

One day right wingers brag about ' low employment' under Trump, the next they claim 'everybody is screwing off and companies can't find enough cheap help'. Do we have low unemployment rates or not? I already pointed out outsourcing high productivity jobs and trying to replace them with low productivity service industry jobs isn't a good thing, but you seem think that means 'all those other people are somehow obligated to work harder and cheaper' to keep business owners and shareholders fat and happy or something, Then you express disappointment when they do make all those 'choices' you claim they have, like telling businessmen to fuck off unless they make offers worthwhile to get out of bed for.

Skills make more??? Rubbish. The country needs more bricklayers? Hire trainees, like they had to do in the good old days. Job sucks too bad when there are better ones out there? Too bad, shouldn't have fucked over the last ones by hiring criminal illegal aliens who wandered off to do something else instead of hanging around starving waiting for business to pick up for years.

There are only X numbers of bricklayer jobs open; if there are suddenly 4X numbers of people with that skill, wages are not going to go up, period, they will go down, and 3X numbers of people will go away eventually and never come back to bricklaying.

What do you think I meant when I said the union was asking their retirees to find people interested in the trade, that meant finding journeymen? Of course that means trainees, WTF did you think it meant? The union will train people for free if they are willing to do the job. Yes, when you become a journeyman you will make five times more than a McDonald's worker. What do you mean skilled labor doesn't pay more?

Now you're going to use the excuse people shouldn't take the job because one day there may be too many bricklayers? Do you know how stupid of an argument that is? What if doctors and engineers looked at their potential careers the same way?

Nobody has to go into low paying service industries when there are plenty of fields of work that pay well and very much in demand.

 

[Grumblenuts]

That link says raising minimum wage can sometimes do the opposite of what it's supposed to. It can increase poverty instead, and I bet the reasons are related to what I've already said.

What do you mean you bet? You couldn't even be bothered to read the whys? Once more, your title asks "Does raising the Minimum Wage reduce poverty?" The answer provided by that link is yes, most of the time, for those experiencing poverty (of course), but it's far from being the only solution. If you meant to title it "Can a minimum wage increase poverty in some cases?" then that's what you should have done. Then everyone could just say "Duh!" and you'd have your jollies.

Alternate (dumb) questions:
"Would paying people nothing generally reduce poverty?"
"Is there any wage that's too little?"
"Could a maximum wage reduce poverty?"
"Do employers generally prefer paying people less?"
If, as Ray suggests, this all comes down to those damn pot smokers, drug screens, and workman's comp rates, then "Who's job is it to tell those insurance behemoths to go fish? {choices: a). the gubmint? or b). the employer/union bosses?}"
"Who mostly pays for lobbyists and to bribe congress critters {choices: a). workers? b). the poor? c). employers?"

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

For those who support raising the minimum wage, have you ever seen a dog run around in circles, trying to catch their tail? That's how minimum wage works.

That's that is what minimum wage does. Raise MW, prices go up, and those earning MW have less earning power and want to raise the MW again so they can afford the newer higher prices everyone is forced to pay.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

Minimum wage should only apply to businesses that meet a net profit threshold.