Does raising the minimum wage reduce poverty?

[Ray From Cleveland]

More rubbish. The fact is minimum wage exists for a good reason, and the fact it has been ignored and stagnated for decqades is now catching up to all these 'businessmen' who got a free ride on crap wages and now the free ride is ending for them, and they find they never had enough business to justify hiring many people in the first place even at minimum wage on jobs criminal illegal aliens can't dominate. You of course like to pretend all those SS and Medicare costs are going up because destroying the wage base has led to those increases as a percentage of pay, not the other way around. Raise the wages and it makes it viable to lower the percentages back down, duh. If minimum wage was so bad ti would have crashed a long time ago, but it hasn't and it never will cause inflation, it has always lagged inflation, a fact you can't handwave away. Labor cost as a percentage of business costs has dropped off for many years now; just because it might raise costs for some ass clown who sits in a truck playing with himself while his wetbacks mow and trim your yard isn't a reason to do away with minimum wage, it just means the ass clown might have to get off his ass and do his own work is all.

WTF are you even talking about? How would associated costs lower by providing a higher wage? Do you think employers have a choice as to what they give to an employees contribution? No, it's written into law. An employer must match all employee SS and Medicare contributions. It's not negotiable. When employees make more money, they get a higher payout if they get hurt on the job or lose the job and end up on unemployment. Those costs raise as well.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I thought we weren’t supposed to pay attention to the CBO? Oh wait, that was just in the particular case of evaluating the cost of the Build Back Better plan.

Lemmings

What's the CBO accuracy rate, something like 30% now?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

And our parents spouted the same drivel daily as we all quietly benefitted most from FDR's economic reforms and began letting most of them slide away again under Carter, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama, Trump, Biden.. But, make no mistake. It's mostly been due to Reagan and you Reaganites. As workers you never developed any genuine self-respect, so of course you think of government as optional and the enemy most of the time. Of course you'll jump to defend any billionaire before giving a poor person a fucking break. This ideology has been pounded into your skull so hard it would take an immaculately conceived brain fart to blast it away now. That's obvious. But here's a hint anyway -- change happens. Learn to adapt. Quit pining for those good-ole-days that never really were and thinking you're smarter than our kids. You're not. They know it and they know what they're doing. They owe you no explanation. Unlike our parent's generation, ours finally succeeded in generally making life harder for our progeny. Own that fact. Grow some humility. Quit pretending to know everything just because this or that may have happened to you personally. All that stuff ain't worth shit.

The Republicans have always been for the billionaires helping people. Private charities we stand behind and mostly contribute to. It's government charities we are against because our country was not designed that way by our founders.

Giving poor people money is not the way to help them, and in fact makes it worse. Give a man a fish and he eats for the day........ As for change, it does happen, but when you see destructive change, you step up and voice your opposition. FDR? Please.

The War on Poverty: 50 years of failure

This year marks the 50th anniversary of President Lyndon B. Johnson's launch of the War on Poverty. In January 1964, Johnson declared "unconditional war on poverty in America." Since then, the taxpayers have spent $22 trillion on Johnson's war. Adjusted for inflation, that's three times the cost...

www.heritage.org

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It was 2% "last number of years"

The only year it was lower was in 2020 due to recession.

Fine, 2%. It's three times that now.

 

[Dragonlady]

Raising dollar per our wages is not the same as reducing poverty. Others in this thread have tried to explain why you can't actually artificially force up the value somebody has to the market relative to everybody else. You'll just create wage inflation. Your link doesn't seem to show that raising minimum wage reduces poverty. It just makes me think you can't see why causing wage inflation won't reduce poverty. After the market corrects itself they're back to where they started.

I don't agree with the minimum wage for several reasons, but I also don't stop there. I support taxes and social safety nets too. Jacking up the minimum wage is not how we should go about trying to reduce poverty.

Thank you for mansplaining wages to me and helping me to understand that you really don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. After 40 years of working in the financial and legal sectors, I really had no idea that there were people as ignorant and misinformed as you are.

Your assumption is that when wages go up for some people, ALL prices go up by a similar amount and they're no further ahead, and that's simply not true, and never was. Instead of just "thinking" about this stuff, why don't you actually study and read about economics.

Instead of repeating the right wing lies and talking points about raising the minimum wage, try taking a look at what happened when wages for working people were rising steadily.

Then take a look at how much money it costs taxpayers to supplement low wage incomes with social assistance, where every dollar given to the working poor, costs taxpayers $1.50, by the time you add in administration, means testing, and other costs, but each dollar of wages increased costs corporations 79 cents.
Only the gullible and the stupid vote against raising the minimum wages.

 

[Anomalism]

making life harder

Are things really so hard for the overweight iPhone generation? I think saying life is worse is a pretty big stretch. Life is getting better in a variety of ways.

 

[eagle1462010]

ALL TAXES and ALL COSTS of doing business get passed on to the consumer.

Always has been that way. And always will be that way.

 

[initforme]

More young people working and living at home will help the economy. That enables them to save $, not get married and have kids. This means more jobs and employers having to compete for employees. Then wages go up.

 

[Anomalism]

Thank you for mansplaining wages to me and helping me to understand that you really don't know your ass from a hole in the ground. After 40 years of working in the financial and legal sectors, I really had no idea that there were people as ignorant and misinformed as you are.

Your assumption is that when wages go up for some people, ALL prices go up by a similar amount and they're no further ahead, and that's simply not true, and never was. Instead of just "thinking" about this stuff, why don't you actually study and read about economics.

Instead of repeating the right wing lies and talking points about raising the minimum wage, try taking a look at what happened when wages for working people were rising steadily.

Then take a look at how much money it costs taxpayers to supplement low wage incomes with social assistance, where every dollar given to the working poor, costs taxpayers $1.50, by the time you add in administration, means testing, and other costs, but each dollar of wages increased costs corporations 79 cents.
Only the gullible and the stupid vote against raising the minimum wages.

So in your view is there a diminishing return on how much you can artificially raise a person's labor value with government mandates? Can we all be wealthy? And if inflation doesn't happen does that not mean you will limit opportunities for people that are not worth whatever labor cost minimum you mandate?

I'm sure you learned a lot as a bank teller or whatever, but maybe your posturing isn't as relevant as you want it to be.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Then take a look at how much money it costs taxpayers to supplement low wage incomes with social assistance, where every dollar given to the working poor, costs taxpayers $1.50, by the time you add in administration, means testing, and other costs, but each dollar of wages increased costs corporations 79 cents.
Only the gullible and the stupid vote against raising the minimum wages.

We have rising wages today and the worst inflation in over 30 years. Yep, everything costs a lot more especially at the grocery store. Now I understand we are in amidst a fertilizer shortage so it's about to go up more than it has already.

People who milk the system will never stop no matter how high wages are. They will just work less hours to keep their government goodies. I've seen this first hand, experienced it personally, and the reality is that these social programs discourage people from bettering themselves. If you took these social programs away from the so-called working poor, they will do what we did when I was younger which is work more hours, get a second job, no limits on what they can make, and perhaps even be offered a good paying job.

People who work in the temp service industry are masters at this, but in the process, nobody is ever going to offer them a full-time good paying job because employers realize their goal is to work as little as possible, and they don't want to hire such people.

 

[BULLDOG]

At this time there are many openings and so few people filling them, so yeah there are jobs not getting done…

Yes. There are many jobs not getting done right now, and it is causing a widespread slowdown in production. You don't expect the shortage of wanted items to last forever, do you? As long as there is profit to be made, the producers will do anything required to fill that need. Some might go to automation, but many need an actual person to do those previously low paying jobs.

 

[Dragonlady]

The Republicans have always been for the billionaires helping people. Private charities we stand behind and mostly contribute to. It's government charities we are against because our country was not designed that way by our founders.

Giving poor people money is not the way to help them, and in fact makes it worse. Give a man a fish and he eats for the day........ As for change, it does happen, but when you see destructive change, you step up and voice your opposition. FDR? Please.

The War on Poverty: 50 years of failure

This year marks the 50th anniversary of President Lyndon B. Johnson's launch of the War on Poverty. In January 1964, Johnson declared "unconditional war on poverty in America." Since then, the taxpayers have spent $22 trillion on Johnson's war. Adjusted for inflation, that's three times the cost...

www.heritage.org

Using Heritage.org to justify anything is asinine. These are the policies that have crashed your economy 3 times in 40 years. So of course, you keep voting for them.

Of course Ray favours the policy of failure because it punishes poor people the most. He hates the war on poverty because it helps minorities who he sees as stupid and lazy.

The working poor work longer hours and harder than most people, but as long as they're stuck in low wage jobs, they have no hope of a different life. As long as black and brown people are kept down, Ray is good with that.

 

[Dragonlady]

We have rising wages today and the worst inflation in over 30 years. Yep, everything costs a lot more especially at the grocery store. Now I understand we are in amidst a fertilizer shortage so it's about to go up more than it has already.

People who milk the system will never stop no matter how high wages are. They will just work less hours to keep their government goodies. I've seen this first hand, experienced it personally, and the reality is that these social programs discourage people from bettering themselves. If you took these social programs away from the so-called working poor, they will do what we did when I was younger which is work more hours, get a second job, no limits on what they can make, and perhaps even be offered a good paying job.

People who work in the temp service industry are masters at this, but in the process, nobody is ever going to offer them a full-time good paying job because employers realize their goal is to work as little as possible, and they don't want to hire such people.

You have a supply chain problem - not enough workers to do the jobs so employers are competing for worker today. The glut of labour is over and employers are going to going to have to cut executive compensation which has gone up by 1000% since 1980, and start paying living wages to get people to work for them.

As someone who is also sitting on a big chunk of savings from lockdown, I've already bought a some new blue tooth speakers, a couple of new kitchen appliances, and I'm thinking of buying a new TV for bedroom. I also needed new underwear and socks, shoes, and jeans. A lot of things which the government seemed to consider as "non-essential".

Savings are at the highest levels ever. Americans are BUYING at the fastest rate in history and the supply chain can't keep up. Of course prices have gone up - supply and demand. That's how "supply and demand" work. I'm thinking of raising my prices since I can't keep up with demand either.

 

[Dragonlady]

Hey Sally, we're raising your minimum wage at the burger joint a dollar...................Hurray, love my govt.

Hey Joe, we have to lay you off because Sally is getting a raise. Let's Go Brandon.

Hey Sally & Joe, the burger costs 5% more because Sally got a raise. Let's Go Brandon.

Hey Sally & Joe, your rent went up because burgers cost 5% more so Sally could get a raise. Let's Go Brandon.

A Big Mac costs $3.99. McDonald's says that raising the minimum wage $1 will raise the cost of a burger by 10 cents.

Hey dipshit, the price of your McDonald's burger just went up 40 cents so we could give Sally a $4 an hour raise. And your income tax bill just went down by $2500 because Sally no longer needs foods stamps, Section 8 Housing Vouchers, or "earned income credits".

This tax cut is given to you because we were also able to get rid of all of the federal workers who processed the applications, and distributed the funds since these people are no longer necessary. Sally no longer has to work 2 jobs to support herself and is now able to take college courses to upgrade her skills.

There is nothing as stupid as a Republican voter talking about the economy.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You have a supply chain problem - not enough workers to do the jobs so employers are competing for worker today. The glut of labour is over and employers are going to going to have to cut executive compensation which has gone up by 1000% since 1980, and start paying living wages to get people to work for them.

As someone who is also sitting on a big chunk of savings from lockdown, I've already bought a some new blue tooth speakers, a couple of new kitchen appliances, and I'm thinking of buying a new TV for bedroom. I also needed new underwear and socks, shoes, and jeans. A lot of things which the government seemed to consider as "non-essential".

Savings are at the highest levels ever. Americans are BUYING at the fastest rate in history and the supply chain can't keep up. Of course prices have gone up - supply and demand. That's how "supply and demand" work. I'm thinking of raising my prices since I can't keep up with demand either.

The supply chain problem took place when Dementia and the commies decided to pay people to stay home instead of work. If Trump were still in charge, that never would have happened and we would have no supply chain problem today because he never would have signed that bill. The freebies went from February through September of this year, and apparently there are people who saved enough where there is still no hurry to return to work. It has nothing to do with demand.

You are kidding yourself if you think any CEO or management is going to allow their pay to be cut due to increased production costs. It's never happened in the past and won't in the future. All losses get passed down to the consumer and we pay them as we always have. Nobody on top will lose one dime. So as we pay "living wages" (whatever the fuck that is) those costs get passed onto us and that's why we have inflation rates not seen in 30 years.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Using Heritage.org to justify anything is asinine. These are the policies that have crashed your economy 3 times in 40 years. So of course, you keep voting for them.

Of course Ray favours the policy of failure because it punishes poor people the most. He hates the war on poverty because it helps minorities who he sees as stupid and lazy.

The working poor work longer hours and harder than most people, but as long as they're stuck in low wage jobs, they have no hope of a different life. As long as black and brown people are kept down, Ray is good with that.

We on the right always know we won the argument when you leftists try to turn it racial, which is strange since your comrades here voted for the most racist President in our lifetime.

The working poor do not work the most hours unless they are not using any social programs. If they are, it makes more sense to work less and collect the rest from government. As I said, I've seen this repeatedly.

And as I posted there are plenty of good jobs here if people take the initiative to learn how to do them. Some are at no cost and others not expensive at all to the point any poor person could afford them. Again, poverty is a choice, not an infliction by the government or society. YOU choose to be poor and nobody else.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes. There are many jobs not getting done right now, and it is causing a widespread slowdown in production. You don't expect the shortage of wanted items to last forever, do you? As long as there is profit to be made, the producers will do anything required to fill that need. Some might go to automation, but many need an actual person to do those previously low paying jobs.

We can never return back to normal until the people sucking up all that government money run out of it. When they do they will have no choice but to return to work. And when that happens wages will also return back to where they were before.

 

[BULLDOG]

We can never return back to normal until the people sucking up all that government money run out of it. When they do they will have no choice but to return to work. And when that happens wages will also return back to where they were before.

Similar situation to the situation in the 30s when workers no longer were willing to work for starvation wages.

 

[DBA]

Similar situation to the situation in the 30s when workers no longer were willing to work for starvation wages.

They just happened to become enlightened when they started getting money from the government during COVID? Yeah, ok.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Similar situation to the situation in the 30s when workers no longer were willing to work for starvation wages.

No, they will come back but as I stated, it will take several months. When labor equals the amount of jobs those wage offers will return back to normal. After all most MW workers are kids living at home, college kids looking to make a few extra bucks, or stay at home moms that use the opportunity to make some money while the kids are in school. None of them are starving and never were.