Does Spanking kids Work?

[Ringel05]

I apologize that my earlier post was so unclear. I rewrote/retyped it and then didn't correct it.

I have studied this all my life but I am no where near the authority of some here. I was a child who was not expected, not supposed to survive.

Some may want to read Sanford's book, Strong At the Broken Places. Her research shows that those who were hit as children do not grow up to hit their own children.

My question is, where do people learn that hitting children is okay or even, good?

What you experienced no child should have to go through but the unfortunate reality is some do, my wife was physically abuse up until third grade when it was notice by school authorities who put a stop to the physical abuse. The mental and emotional abuse continued up to adulthood. Your personal experience left an indelible impression on you that appears to color your ability to differentiate spanking from harm. This is not a condemnation of you, it's fairly normal for those in your position to see this as black and white with no room for the grey making it nearly impossible to answer your question.
I wish there was some way to show you that all spanking isn't bad and I wish that there was some way that spanking wasn't necessary with some children but it is one tool that, used appropriately, works for many (see Wake's example).
Hopefully one way to convey the difference is, I and my brothers were spanked as a children when we did something very bad (when we deserved it), we also knew our parents loved us and the punishment was for our actions. We feared punishment, not our parents.
It is my most sincere wish that you and those who have experienced what you have find the healing and answers you seek and that you may one day shed the anger and pain. I found that forgiving those who have wronged me (whether they know it or not) frees me from my hurt and anger allowing me to move on. Don't know if that would help you or not, simply offering it as an alternate option.

 

[Iceweasel]

I have never seen a bully who wasn't hit by his parents.

Cool story. You met every bully on Earth.

 

[Meister]

Most of the people I corresponded with in prison ministry were beaten severely as children. Some went on to boot camp, all went on to prison. The common denominator with all of them was their parents used violence as a teaching tool and it backfired. More discipline is not what brought them around. Love brought them around and love transformed them.

You could go to any prison and ask them if its the punishment there that will keep them from returning. They will tell you that isn't it. It's finding their self worth and purpose and feeling loved that will keep them from returning.

The topic is spanking, not beatings. Jesus Christ.

Distinction without a difference.

There very much is a difference. Yes, a spanking can go too far to where it is a beating. But, there are spankings that aren't beatings that gets the attention of a child and goes no further.

 

[Chaussette]

The topic is spanking, not beatings. Jesus Christ.

Distinction without a difference.

There very much is a difference. Yes, a spanking can go too far to where it is a beating. But, there are spankings that aren't beatings that gets the attention of a child and goes no further.

Spanking is hitting. Hitting children is cowardly.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I'm aware of people that have never been slaves and have never even seen an American who beat their kids.

I'm aware of Africans that abuse their children. My point is that it is not the norm in African culture. This is something Black Americans picked up from slavery. This and other bad habits.

In Ghana, not only do the parents spank their children, but any adult in range of the disrespectful or disobedient child. I don't presume that everyone in Ghana does, but no one objected either time I witnessed it. They are not descendents of slaves nor does their spanking of other people's children come from whites. In the villages, where I saw this, it is very rare to see a white person. You see more whites in Acra, but I didn't see spanking there so not sure if it is regional. I assume it is. Africa is huge with many many different cultures and languages.

Sounds like there is no place where a child is safe from being hit by any adult who gets it in their head that the child needs hitting.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

I could cripple a child for life by paddling his/her butt.



No. It is NEVER necessary, it is NEVER justified, and it is NEVER the right thing to do. Anyone doing it needs to be stopped by any means necessary up to and including lethal force.

Jarl, it would go far beyond the bounds of disciplinary spanking to cause that kind of damage. I feel that's less than honest of you to say that, because of all the times I've been spanked the worst was a slightly red bottom that stung for a few minutes.

Well, you certainly have the right to an opinion. It's just extreme and unreasonable, but so long as that sentiment doesn't influence our laws that's alright. I want to understand better where this sentiment is coming from. Were you ever spanked? What were your experiences?

My psychopathic father used me as a punching bag on an almost daily basis. He cost me my health and most of my sanity.

Just as with rape, most people have no idea of the life-long physical effects of abuse.

Not all scars can be seen and not all damage heals.

 

[Montrovant]

Distinction without a difference.

There very much is a difference. Yes, a spanking can go too far to where it is a beating. But, there are spankings that aren't beatings that gets the attention of a child and goes no further.

Spanking is hitting. Hitting children is cowardly.

Ah, so now spanking during play is cowardly, huh? Spanking is hitting and all that....

And I wonder what, exactly, you think those who spank are afraid of?

 

[Pogo]

There very much is a difference. Yes, a spanking can go too far to where it is a beating. But, there are spankings that aren't beatings that gets the attention of a child and goes no further.

Spanking is hitting. Hitting children is cowardly.

Ah, so now spanking during play is cowardly, huh? Spanking is hitting and all that....

And I wonder what, exactly, you think those who spank are afraid of?

Creative thinking, I'd say. Violence is the absolutely least creative method of problem resolution there is.

A violent application is immediate, visceral and simple: "if I run into the street I'll get spanked". The effect of a non-violent approach is not so simple. With the physical pain no longer in the forefront dominating the mind the child is free to (and forced to) analyze what happened and why. In fact we could add this as a much-less-obvious factor: hitting one's kids teaches those kids (by example of omission) to not think creatively. That is, it passes up a chance, both to incite that analysis for the current event, and to demonstrate the wonder of wisdom, creative thinking, and deductive reasoning. That opportunity should never be passed up, if one can but grasp it.

Matter of fact the simplicity of "if I run into the street I'll get spanked" could just as easily be interpreted "if I run I'll get spanked" because the child just isn't given context to ruminate with.

Seems to me those who counter that children just don't think like adults might be lacking confidence in their own children's abilities and reluctant to credit them with enough intelligence to figure it out. I think kids are a lot smarter than some give them credit for, and no one will disagree that as newcomers to this planet they're always curious. Take advantage of that curiosity by giving them something to think about rather than just physically feel, sez I.

 

[Pogo]

SuperNanny never hits a child.

Supernanny hasn't any children of her own

Who in the fuck is "SuperNanny"?

 

[Pogo]

What you experienced no child should have to go through but the unfortunate reality is some do, my wife was physically abuse up until third grade when it was notice by school authorities who put a stop to the physical abuse. The mental and emotional abuse continued up to adulthood. Your personal experience left an indelible impression on you that appears to color your ability to differentiate spanking from harm.

This might be a worthwhile tangent -- I tried to go down this process path yesterday with Wake and we didn't finish... when you say this girl (now your wife) was being physically abused and authorities put a stop to it -- how did they do that? Presumably the adults visiting the abuse on her were not spanked as a remedy, so how did they get it stopped?

Looking for motivational cause and effects here.

 

[Asclepias]

SuperNanny never hits a child.

Supernanny hasn't any children of her own

Who in the fuck is "SuperNanny"?

She is actually pretty good. More people should watch her show on how to raise children.

 

[Meister]

Distinction without a difference.

There very much is a difference. Yes, a spanking can go too far to where it is a beating. But, there are spankings that aren't beatings that gets the attention of a child and goes no further.

Spanking is hitting. Hitting children is cowardly.

 

[beagle9]

Distinction without a difference.

There very much is a difference. Yes, a spanking can go too far to where it is a beating. But, there are spankings that aren't beatings that gets the attention of a child and goes no further.

Spanking is hitting. Hitting children is cowardly.

Do you have children ? If so then be glad that you didn't give birth to a child that needs to be spanked sometimes or every once in a while for being bad. You probably have a child that needs to be spanked sometimes, but you have bought the coolaid the whole picture full in liberal theology, and so you want to let the government or the school system raise your child instead maybe ? Do you believe in drugs raising your child also ? Are you even fit to have a child or children umm do you think ? These are all important questions, and you should be honest with yourself about it all somehow. What works for you isn't the only tool in the box for all, so becareful of your judgement of others, especially if your not a trained physcologist or even a scholar on the subject. Abuse is one thing, and I think all know what abuse is, but disipline in the form of a spanking or a quick pop on the hand or the butt is something altogether different than a abusive situation in which people have seen and understood abuse to be.

The whole thing is part of a broader plan by government, to take control of the children in the plan, and it has worked brilliantly on the populous over the years, because we the people have drunk the coolaid of the liberal elite in this nation, and it isn't over yet.

 

[G.T.]

100% opposed to spanking children. Obedience under the threat of physical violence doesn't really sound right to me.

 

[Tresha91203]

I agree it was extreme, that was my point. It is the degree of each. Each can be taken too far. I would have much preferred the former, but would not have preferred a beating, I think. People are different, though. My twin could care less about being ostricised, but I certainly did. That is how the ostricization crossed the line from my perspective. 10 minutes would have worked for neither of us. It would be worth it for many infractions. Then, it escalates and becomes an hour ... is that the line? All I know is that I learned he uses love to control. As long as I behave as he wants (even into adulthood), we are "good." If I disagree, I don't exist. We get along well enough now, but he does not know me. That is what I learned, hide my true self to keep the family. Believe it or not, he is a good man. He was beaten, as were his 6 siblings, as a child and worked hard to never hit us so as not to repeat the cycle. In a very real way, he did. He chose another, more humane in his mind, method. When it didn't work, he doubled down on it until it did, and in my mind, crossed the line. I don't think he really saw another option and don't actually fault him for it. He feels he broke the cycle of abuse ... I am not so sure, but maybe he is right. None of his children are physical abusers so that cycle is broken. I don't and wont have children, and his other children refuse to ignore (ostricization), so maybe he succeeded after all. It just took 3 generations to break it. I don't know.

I understand that you did not mean prolongued neglect, just as most here are not referring to the spanking of 2 generations ago. IMO, the degree of each matters. If you have to escalate your preferred method, perhaps it is time to try another. There are many forms of mild loving correction. Find the one that works for your child, and be grateful if the effective method is one you do not find distasteful. Please recognize, though, that each child is different and responds to a different method. Withdrawal definitely teaches a message ... a different one to different children. Please be conscious of degree and emotional impact. Often, words or lack of is more harmful than a swat to a certain personality.

I maintain that ostracism is one of the most powerful tools. I forgot where I picked it up but I read a book where if you did something outside of the tribal laws they acted like you did not exist or you were a ghost. It was either a NA tribe or an African tribe.

My dad did that. I learned that he loves me ... sometimes, but not to count on it. It can be taken too far and be more traumatic than a swat on the butt. Its the degree of either method. A swat on the butt, lecture, hug, then done ... or withdraw all affection until that grade comes up (9 weeks). I consider the latter neglect. The former, I'm not bothered about. I've not experienced the former, so could be wrong, but I don't believe so.

Thats pretty damn extreme and not at all what I am talking about. When I say ostracism I mean at most 10 minutes. Go sit in a room and get yourself together. When you do call me and we can talk about what happened to make you mad, act up, etc. At that point age appropriate punishment will be handed out. If you have an exceptionally good reason you get a pass.

 

[Ringel05]

What you experienced no child should have to go through but the unfortunate reality is some do, my wife was physically abuse up until third grade when it was notice by school authorities who put a stop to the physical abuse. The mental and emotional abuse continued up to adulthood. Your personal experience left an indelible impression on you that appears to color your ability to differentiate spanking from harm.

This might be a worthwhile tangent -- I tried to go down this process path yesterday with Wake and we didn't finish... when you say this girl (now your wife) was being physically abused and authorities put a stop to it -- how did they do that? Presumably the adults visiting the abuse on her were not spanked as a remedy, so how did they get it stopped?

Looking for motivational cause and effects here.

She's never said. Just said it stopped after the school authorities intervened but that the emotional and mental abuse was much worse.
My assumption is her parents (this I know) were thought of highly at work and among friends so anything that might mar said public image they would have eschewed. Their public image was more important to them than anything.

 

[beagle9]

100% opposed to spanking children. Obedience under the threat of physical violence doesn't really sound right to me.

A little story my daughter just told me about her friend and the encounter she had with her mom back in the day. Her friend began getting older as a teen ager, and she bagn hanging with the wrong crowd and such, as well as being influenced in the wrong ways also, so of course she bagn to get tougher and tougher, and more unruley as the days went by. Finally it came to a climax one day, where the teen called her mom a physcopathic B. The teen friend of my daughter said to her that it was the last time she ever tried that one, because all she remembers is picking herself up off of the floor after that burst of verbal outrage. She told my daughter that it was the hardest slap she thinks she ever got for being bad like that. She also told my daughter that till this very day, she don't mess with her mom like that anymore. The teenager now turned woman is 32years old, has three children of her own (2) boy's and one girl, and they are all doing great in their lives. She still, and will always love her mother and father is what she says, but she won't try her mom like that ever again.

Sad it had to come to that, but that is what happened in that incident. Worked for her and the teen girl in the situation at the time, but it could be construed by another as abuse, but would they be right on that ?

 

[G.T.]

100% opposed to spanking children. Obedience under the threat of physical violence doesn't really sound right to me.

A little story my daughter just told me about her friend and the encounter she had with her mom back in the day. Her friend began getting older as a teen ager, and she bagn hanging with the wrong crowd and such, as well as being influenced in the wrong ways also, so of course she bagn to get tougher and tougher, and more unruley as the days went by. Finally it came to a climax one day, where the teen called her mom a physcopathic B. The teen friend of my daughter said to her that it was the last time she ever tried that one, because all she remembers is picking herself up off of the floor after that burst of verbal outrage. She told my daughter that it was the hardest slap she thinks she ever got for being bad like that. She also told my daughter that till this very day, she don't mess with her mom like that anymore. The teenager now turned woman is 32years old, has three children of her own (2) boy's and one girl, and they are all doing great in their lives. She still, and will always love her mother and father is what she says, but she won't try her mom like that ever again.

Sad it had to come to that, but that is what happened in that incident. Worked for her and the teen girl in the situation at the time, but it could be construed by another as abuse, but would they be right on that ?

Yes, I would construe that as abuse.

Just like if it happened on the street, it would be an arrest able offense called assault.

People in these anecdotal fairy tale cases number one, have all different definitions for "turned out fine," and two - don't know everyone's deep dark secrets, behind closed doors things, to even judge turned out fine.....

and last point: She didn't turn out fine. She deems it ok to get knocked out cold by her parent - she respects her mom for it - - - - - so now she'll not feel too bad knocking out her own kids?

Did her mom "turn out fine" if she loses her temper so badly she knocks her daughter out, cold, like a boxer? That's "turned out fine," someone who will knock their kid out cold because of their bad temper?

 

[Pogo]

What you experienced no child should have to go through but the unfortunate reality is some do, my wife was physically abuse up until third grade when it was notice by school authorities who put a stop to the physical abuse. The mental and emotional abuse continued up to adulthood. Your personal experience left an indelible impression on you that appears to color your ability to differentiate spanking from harm.

This might be a worthwhile tangent -- I tried to go down this process path yesterday with Wake and we didn't finish... when you say this girl (now your wife) was being physically abused and authorities put a stop to it -- how did they do that? Presumably the adults visiting the abuse on her were not spanked as a remedy, so how did they get it stopped?

Looking for motivational cause and effects here.

She's never said. Just said it stopped after the school authorities intervened but that the emotional and mental abuse was much worse.
My assumption is her parents (this I know) were thought of highly at work and among friends so anything that might mar said public image they would have eschewed. Their public image was more important to them than anything.

Assuming that is the way it went down, and it's reasonable to assume, that makes the case that the non-punitive method of social pressure was effective. That's why I keep coming back to cultural mores rather than punitive ones like laws or spanking.

In other words, you and I and the posters here don't walk down the street hitting people. Do we not do that because the law would lock us up, or do we not do that because it's simply the wrong thing to do within our cultural mores? Seems obvious which motivation is the more effective.

 

[Pogo]

There very much is a difference. Yes, a spanking can go too far to where it is a beating. But, there are spankings that aren't beatings that gets the attention of a child and goes no further.

Spanking is hitting. Hitting children is cowardly.

Do you have children ? If so then be glad that you didn't give birth to a child that needs to be spanked sometimes or every once in a while for being bad. You probably have a child that needs to be spanked sometimes, but you have bought the coolaid the whole picture full in liberal theology, and so you want to let the government or the school system raise your child instead maybe ? Do you believe in drugs raising your child also ? Are you even fit to have a child or children umm do you think ? These are all important questions, and you should be honest with yourself about it all somehow. What works for you isn't the only tool in the box for all, so becareful of your judgement of others, especially if your not a trained physcologist or even a scholar on the subject. Abuse is one thing, and I think all know what abuse is, but disipline in the form of a spanking or a quick pop on the hand or the butt is something altogether different than a abusive situation in which people have seen and understood abuse to be.

The whole thing is part of a broader plan by government, to take control of the children in the plan, and it has worked brilliantly on the populous over the years, because we the people have drunk the coolaid of the liberal elite in this nation, and it isn't over yet.

Oh Jesus Christ on a Cracker...

This is not a political topic. Close your comic book before the pages get all stuck together.