Dogs refuse to eat vegan "meat"...

[kathydunn]

Buttercup is picking and choosing verses to support her position, while ignoring others that dispute he/she/its position. It's called being a Cafeteria Christian. Take what you want and leave the other.

No, Buttercup is not picking and choosing. God created us in his image, and gave us Dominion to care for and protect, to make flourish all of the rest of the creation. When God made each aspect of creation, each day he created, he paused and said it was good. When he finished creating he said it was very good. All of it working together made his creation very good. When sin entered the world violence and corruption entered the world. What man did truly is hand over the keys to the earthly Kingdom to Satan and his own character and image became more Satan like. What God does is meet man where he's at and tries to redeem him and bring him to his perfect will for us, he tries to restore and reconcile his creation. He tries to restore and reconcile relationships. We, his crown creation, we're supposed to rule with kindness and love and according to Yahweh's will. But what we do is we use it for ourselves, we decide what we think is right and wrong and we don't listen to God or understand what his word is actually saying. If you read the Bible from the beginning to the end and study it with an open mind and an open heart, you will begin to see how man in his stubbornness, in his willfulness, rejects God and God has to use what is available to him to try to redeem us and the created order. He uses war, he uses this broken corrupted human-made Satan looking world and tries to bring good out of it, tries to steer it toward the day in which he will send Jesus back to end this age. When Jesus was in the desert being tempted by Satan, Satan said to him he would give Jesus all the kingdoms of the world if he would bow down and worship Him. See the world around us is Satan's, these are his kingdoms. The Roman world at the time Jesus was here. Today what we see is Satan ruling in a modern world with war, division, politics, and any number of other corrupted systems. He uses man for his own purposes. God is good. His heart is for nonviolence. His heart is to restore his very good creation, the relationships between man the earth and the animals and himself.

 

[westwall]

I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree more. UNLESS we are talking about someone who sincerely does not know what goes on in the animal industries. And to be fair, there are many people like that.

But once one knows, then there is no longer the excuse of ignorance.

That's why I said to Westwall that I have more respect for people like him who don't claim to be huge animal lovers, rather than people who always tell others they are animal lovers and post cute animal videos withemojis but then eat and use animal products.

I love animals. I love riding horses, I love my dog, I love the grace and beauty of the raptors that fly around my home, and I LOVE eating tasty critters!

To be honest I try and only eat the stupid ones. Sheep are beyond stupid. Possums are so stupid they will literally fall asleep in the middle of a street.

Chickens are pretty brainless, but turkeys are damned smart, so I leave them alone, pigs are smart little bastards too, but damn, I love bacon, so they are the one exception to the rule.

Cows, morons, fish, beyond dumb, I leave sharks alone, and pretty much all of the greater predatory fish.

So that is as close as I will get to your POV, stupid critters are fair game. Smart ones I tend to leave alone.

Even coyotes. They are considered pests around here, but I admire the hell out of their ability to adapt, so we pass each other by with a respectful nod of the head to each other.

 

[MarathonMike]

I have tried veggie food that tastes like straw and veggie food that I could not tell the difference from real meat. Like a lot of things it depends on how it is made.

 

[kathydunn]

I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree more. UNLESS we are talking about someone who sincerely does not know what goes on in the animal industries. And to be fair, there are many people like that.

But once one knows, then there is no longer the excuse of ignorance.

That's why I said to Westwall that I have more respect for people like him who don't claim to be huge animal lovers, rather than people who always tell others they are animal lovers and post cute animal videos withemojis but then eat and use animal products.

I agree with Buttercup. All animals are sentient. All of them feel pain and suffer at our hands. Humans are the most schizophrenic creatures on the planet. We use some for food we use some for clothing, we use some for entertainment, we hunt and cause havoc and violence to the Animal Kingdom in every way shape and form. We destroy their habitat for ourselves we pollute their water we pollute the land, the outdoors is their home. And yet for some, cats and dogs and other small little creatures perhaps become our "pets"and again for some we treat them like they are our family members. And yet we do this dis service to the rest of the animal kingdom, we torture, we maim, we neglect, we abuse them in horrific ways. You don't have to believe me all you have to do is look it up. The reality is there you have to look for it and you will find it. We cage some and call them experiments. We cage others and call them entertainment. And some countries chasing a bull around and pummeling it full of stab wounds until it bleeds to death and is tortured and horrifically murdered, it's called entertainment. We are incredibly corrupt. Those bulls feel everything your cat and dog would. And Jesus asks us to be kind and merciful to all. He says the righteous man is kind to animals. Righteous incidentally, means right related. When we are right related to animals and to God himself we are kind and merciful.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

To be honest I try and only eat the stupid ones. Sheep are beyond stupid. Possums are so stupid they will literally fall asleep in the middle of a street.

I USED to think this.

When I grew up I kept finding myself having to eat lower and lower on the food chain.

You are simply WRONG in the statement I quoted.
I have a dear friend who is a wildlife rehabber. She specializes in raccoons, opossums, and skunks. They are far from stupid. You just don't know what you don't know, and you seem unwilling to learn.

I know how you're reacting because I was there too. And I was wrong too.

 

[buttercup]

Not all animal products are from factory farm operations. And not all vegans are ethical animal lovers.

Actually, according to the stats, an extremely high percentage of meat comes from factory farms. From what I've read, it's something like 99%.

But even if someone gets their animal flesh from a small farm where it's supposedly humane (there is no such thing as humane slaughter, but that's a topic for its own thread) those people most likely still eat at restaurants once in a while, so they are most likely still participating in the animal industries.

Anyway, my point was simply that there's a lot of cognitive dissonance that goes on, with some people more than others.

 

[Coyote]

As long as you don't think too much about it.

I guess you can say you love babies but can still support turning them into hamburger

We are all part of a natural cycle. You want to put humanity outside of it. I disagree with that because I believe it comes with a certain arrogance, like the arrogance you use when you put down people who choose to eat meat. Or the judgemental view that it must be all or nothing. I.E. if you aren’t a vegan, you can’t love animals.

Just as farming can be done in a sustainable fashion, animals can be raised ethically with respect and kindness.

 

[Coyote]

I USED to think this.

When I grew up I kept finding myself having to eat lower and lower on the food chain.

You are simply WRONG in the statement I quoted.
I have a dear friend who is a wildlife rehabber. She specializes in raccoons, opossums, and skunks. They are far from stupid. You just don't know what you don't know, and you seem unwilling to learn.

I know how you're reacting because I was there too. And I was wrong too.

We are constantly finding out how little we actually know about the intelligence of other creatures…it’s mind blowing.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Even INSECTS feel pain and experience pleasure.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Even INSECTS seem to feel love (I KNOW they can feel anger)

 

[westwall]

I USED to think this.

When I grew up I kept finding myself having to eat lower and lower on the food chain.

You are simply WRONG in the statement I quoted.
I have a dear friend who is a wildlife rehabber. She specializes in raccoons, opossums, and skunks. They are far from stupid. You just don't know what you don't know, and you seem unwilling to learn.

I know how you're reacting because I was there too. And I was wrong too.

I have watched a possum go to sleep in the middle of Cathedral Oaks road in Santa Barbara. Don't dare to tell me what I have, or have not seen with my own eyes. Racoons I agree are smart. I leave them alone. Skunks are incredibly smart, I leave them alone too. Besides they are damned cute too. But cows, sheep, and chickens? Stupid. Totally stupid.

 

[buttercup]

I love animals. I love riding horses, I love my dog, I love the grace and beauty of the raptors that fly around my home, and I LOVE eating tasty critters!

To be honest I try and only eat the stupid ones. Sheep are beyond stupid. Possums are so stupid they will literally fall asleep in the middle of a street.

Chickens are pretty brainless, but turkeys are damned smart, so I leave them alone, pigs are smart little bastards too, but damn, I love bacon, so they are the one exception to the rule.

Cows, morons, fish, beyond dumb, I leave sharks alone, and pretty much all of the greater predatory fish.

So that is as close as I will get to your POV, stupid critters are fair game. Smart ones I tend to leave alone.

Even coyotes. They are considered pests around here, but I admire the hell out of their ability to adapt, so we pass each other by with a respectful nod of the head to each other.

Believe it or not, I used to say that about cows. I specifically remember saying "cows are OK to eat, because they're dumb." How wrong I was! But even if is IS true that they are not as smart as other animals, they are undeniably sentient. They have emotions, they have individual personalities, they feel pain, they still suffer. They suffer greatly in the dairy industry (read my sig) when their babies are taken away on Day One, and the mother cow cries out for days, or sometimes weeks for her baby.

(I honestly hate to be the bearer of bad news, because I understand where you all are coming from, but the truth still needs to be spoken, uncomfortable as it may be.)

 

[westwall]

We are all part of a natural cycle. You want to put humanity outside of it. I disagree with that because I believe it comes with a certain arrogance, like the arrogance you use when you put down people who choose to eat meat. Or the judgemental view that it must be all or nothing. I.E. if you aren’t a vegan, you can’t love animals.

Just as farming can be done in a sustainable fashion, animals can be raised ethically with respect and kindness.

Exactly. Plants TOO experience pain, and have feelings. But vegans ignore those facts because the plants are immobile for the most part. But experiment after experiment has proven that plants react to music, to speaking to them, if you praise them they grow, if you curse them they wilt. We talk to our plants and we have fantastic plant growth. Far better than our neighbors.

We have ferns that are 18 years old. One of them was left outside in the winter one time and we thought we had lost it, but we nursed it back to health. We kept encouraging it and it bounced back. But it was touch and go.

 

[kathydunn]

Such a nice little bigot you are. If you want to have a chance you had better lose that sanctimonious arrogance you exhibit.

Gosh I don't come on here very often and I'm reading through this thread. There is nothing whatsoever sanctimonious or arrogant about what Buttercup said! What's up with the personal attacks? There should be respect in these forms for one another.

 

[westwall]

Believe it or not, I used to say that about cows. I specifically remember saying "cows are OK to eat, because they're dumb." How wrong I was! But even if is IS true that they are not as smart as other animals, they are undeniably sentient. They have emotions, they have individual personalities, they feel pain, they still suffer. They suffer greatly in the dairy industry (read my sig) when their babies are taken away on Day One, and the mother cow cries out for days, or sometimes weeks for her baby.

(I honestly hate to be the bearer of bad news, because I understand where you all are coming from, but the truth still needs to be spoken, uncomfortable as it may be.)

I never claimed they weren't sentient. I claimed I don't care. If I get lost in the forest, and I am injured, and have no tools to help me.....I am a gonner. The animals will have a field day on my carcass. As happens every day, all over the planet.

 

[westwall]

Gosh I don't come on here very often and I'm reading through this thread. There is nothing whatsoever sanctimonious or arrogant about what Buttercup said! What's up with the personal attacks? There should be respect in these forms for one another.

Calling someone a carcass eater is a perjorative.

look it up.



That's because you are a sock puppet.

 

[kathydunn]

Exactly. Plants TOO experience pain, and have feelings. But vegans ignore those facts because the plants are immobile for the most part. But experiment after experiment has proven that plants react to music, to speaking to them, if you praise them they grow, if you curse them they wilt. We talk to our plants and we have fantastic plant growth. Far better than our neighbors.

We have ferns that are 18 years old. One of them was left outside in the winter one time and we thought we had lost it, but we nursed it back to health. We kept encouraging it and it bounced back. But it was touch and go.

Plants respond to stimuli. But they do not have a nervous system. It is impossible for them to feel pain.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Donkeys MOURNING a death among them
A few years ago I let my kitten see his mother who died suddenly. She was a stray who wouldn't quite let me take her in. The cry of that kitten was chilling. I'll never forget that.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Gosh I don't come on here very often and I'm reading through this thread. There is nothing whatsoever sanctimonious or arrogant about what Buttercup said! What's up with the personal attacks? There should be respect in these forms for one another.

She pricks their conscience.

 

[skye]

Gosh I don't come on here very often and I'm reading through this thread. There is nothing whatsoever sanctimonious or arrogant about what Buttercup said! What's up with the personal attacks? There should be respect in these forms for one another.

she/he/ it is trying to shove her or his ideas down our throats the wrong way.

that's what's wrong.