Dogs refuse to eat vegan "meat"...

[kathydunn]

she/he/ it is trying to shove her or his ideas down our throats the wrong way.

that's what's wrong.

No, it doesn't appear that way at all. No one is trying to shove anything down someone's (there is no "it" here) throat. It is the way that certain people are taking it. Getting defensive. Sometimes the truth puts people's backs up. The truth is humans are incredibly insensitive to animals, humans are anthropocentric entirely. It's all about us in our world. It's all about what will serve me and my needs and make me happy as a human. That's what happens in this world and that's the kind of systems we design. We use the power that God gave us to care for this world, each other, and animals, in self-centered ways to completely serve ourselves. And if creatures along the way get harmed we don't want to know about it. We simply want what we want that makes us happy. And none of this is right. If we think long and hard and look deep inside of ourselves we will know it! God wrote right and wrong on our hearts. It's wrong to be so cruel to animals like we are and at some very basic level we know it. And this is why people get upset when it's brought up. Many people don't want to change. They don't want to look at themselves. But if we are going to build a world where love is central, where kindness, goodness, mercyfulness is central to all we do and we would love our neighbor as ourselves, then we have to put away our pride and look at the truth. We don't have to look far in this world to see how disrespectful humans are. The planet is a mess, it's being polluted to the point where it is not sustainable. And humans are responsible for this. All of us are. And what I'm seeing with most vegans anyway, is that they are trying to bring awareness to this, because we are all responsible for it. And vegans are trying to back out of this system, to be kind and merciful, and to try to make love central in all they do. It's for the benefit of all of us, including the planet and the animal kingdom. And what on e earth is wrong with that? I think a lot of people simply want to be self-serving.

 

[westwall]

Thanks, but again, sometimes in debates like this euphemisms need to be done away with. I don't do that all the time, it depends on the conversation, but sometimes a dose of reality is needed.

What you *won't* find me doing is constantly calling people "scum" or other hateful names just because they have different political views, as some on this thread do. Those people who constantly name-call and have a very hateful tribalistic mindset need to look at themselves in the mirror, because their condemnation on this thread is hollow and the height of hypocrisy.

Fine. You do what you do, but you aren't going to get any converts. Ultimately your arguments are moralistic (i.e. religious) in nature. Most people simply don't care about your religion. It's just that simple. ALL living things feel, communicate, and interact with their kind. I am educated enough to understand that, and because I actually like living, I made the decision long ago to eat animals and plants.

So, you keep on keepin on, but you are always going to remain fringe because of it.

 

[westwall]

No, it doesn't appear that way at all. No one is trying to shove anything down someone's (there is no "it" here) throat. It is the way that certain people are taking it. Getting defensive. Sometimes the truth puts people's backs up. The truth is humans are incredibly insensitive to animals, humans are anthropocentric entirely. It's all about us in our world. It's all about what will serve me and my needs and make me happy as a human. That's what happens in this world and that's the kind of systems we design. We use the power that God gave us to care for this world, each other, and animals, in self-centered ways to completely serve ourselves. And if creatures along the way get harmed we don't want to know about it. We simply want what we want that makes us happy. And none of this is right. If we think long and hard and look deep inside of ourselves we will know it! God wrote right and wrong on our hearts. It's wrong to be so cruel to animals like we are and at some very basic level we know it. And this is why people get upset when it's brought up. Many people don't want to change. They don't want to look at themselves. But if we are going to build a world where love is central, where kindness, goodness, mercyfulness is central to all we do and we would love our neighbor as ourselves, then we have to put away our pride and look at the truth. We don't have to look far in this world to see how disrespectful humans are. The planet is a mess, it's being polluted to the point where it is not sustainable. And humans are responsible for this. All of us are. And what I'm seeing with most vegans anyway, is that they are trying to bring awareness to this, because we are all responsible for it. And vegans are trying to back out of this system, to be kind and merciful, and to try to make love central in all they do. It's for the benefit of all of us, including the planet and the animal kingdom. And what on e earth is wrong with that? I think a lot of people simply want to be self-serving.

I don't believe in God. I DO observe Mother Nature in all her glory. I will go with Mother Nature and the world that she created. You feel free to go your way, just don't expect me to pay attention to you.

 

[skye]

LOL! No, calling someone a carcass eater is what they are, carcass eaters. If we're eating dead bodies we are eating carcasses. If we're eating dead animals, the carcass or body of the animal is dead, and we are then eating carcasses so thus caucus eaters.

you are a moron....what sort of answer is that....are you another freak? carcass???? you are crazy

 

[kathydunn]

and why your funny Death Angel?

she/he/it is being very arrogant indeed.

No, she (there are no "it's" here) is trying to live in such a way to do as little harm as possible. When people who don't care if their actions do harm well that then would be more indicative of arrogance.

 

[skye]

No, she (there are no "it's" here) is trying to live in such a way to do as little harm as possible. When people who don't care if their actions do harm well that then would be more indicative of arrogance.

go preach somewhere else.

here you are wasting your "precious" time.

 

[Coyote]

Actually, statistically speaking, 98% of what you find in the grocery stores of our food

Statistically speaking means nothing since you have no idea where individual non vegan animal lovers shop.

Actually, statistically speaking, almost all of our food comes from factory farms. In most of our mainstream grocery stores anyway, the likes of Cub foods etc. To find alternatives one has to diligently seek them out. Plus the industry discourages small farming it makes it very difficult for them to survive. Small farms who want to practice sound animal husbandry are under extreme pressure not to be able to do so, and to conform to industry standards.

Agree, though I live in a state with a lot small farms and good farm markets.

I don't hear any judgmental qualities in any of these statements. These are just facts. And no one is judging meat eaters.

It is very judgemental to say if you aren't vegan you don't love animals.

I don't hear that here at all. I do hear and see truth being pointed out, that when we eat them we are participating in a very cruel system. This is just a fact. And there comes a time in our lives when we have to ask ourselves if participating in these cruel systems is against our values. And if it's against our values, in other words if we wouldn't be able to treat animals, even animals we might eat, the way the industry does, then why are we participating in this system? Do we not care the animals suffer in such cruel ways? We are truly responsible for all our actions, even those actions that might not be explicit, but implicit. We live in a world where it is nearly impossible to be totally self-sufficient anymore. Our society is built in a way where having our food produced for us, having our clothing produced for us, and on and on it goes. In fact these things are so controlled by the government and other systems that are in place that we cannot do these things ourselves in many cases, take the small farm example, they are so regulated it's impossible for them almost to stay in business, they are forced to get bigger get out. In fact that was the motto that was used back when factory farming began.

Agree with some but what is killing small farms is much more than regulation.

 

[kathydunn]

When you use perjoratives to describe anyone who disagrees with you.....yeah, you ARE an extremist.

No pejorative was used here. She simply called eating a dead animal eating a carcass. What is a dead animal? What is that dead body? If you're driving down the road and there's a dead animal on the road people say there's an animal carcass on the road.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Genesis 9:3

3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.

That verse kind of blows your theory, doesn't it?

​

 

[kathydunn]

You can be an animal lover and not be vegan.

What is an animal lover? What is loving an animal mean? What does love mean? If the biblical description of love is true and 1st Corinthians chapter 13, and if this is how we define love, then we can't be an animal lover and not be vegan. The two are in opposition of each other.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Gosh I don't come on here very often and I'm reading through this thread. There is nothing whatsoever sanctimonious or arrogant about what Buttercup said! What's up with the personal attacks? There should be respect in these forms for one another.

She is using the Bible to justify her personal choices. She ignores the parts with which she doesn't agree. That is the epitome of sanctimonious and arrogant.

 

[Coyote]

What is an animal lover? What is loving an animal mean? What does love mean? If the biblical description of love is true and 1st Corinthians chapter 13, and if this is how we define love, then we can't be an animal lover and not be vegan. The two are in opposition of each other.

By that definition the only animal lovers are those who are or live like the Jains.

 

[kathydunn]

I love animals. I love riding horses, I love my dog, I love the grace and beauty of the raptors that fly around my home, and I LOVE eating tasty critters!

To be honest I try and only eat the stupid ones. Sheep are beyond stupid. Possums are so stupid they will literally fall asleep in the middle of a street.

Chickens are pretty brainless, but turkeys are damned smart, so I leave them alone, pigs are smart little bastards too, but damn, I love bacon, so they are the one exception to the rule.

Cows, morons, fish, beyond dumb, I leave sharks alone, and pretty much all of the greater predatory fish.

So that is as close as I will get to your POV, stupid critters are fair game. Smart ones I tend to leave alone.

Even coyotes. They are considered pests around here, but I admire the hell out of their ability to adapt, so we pass each other by with a respectful nod of the head to each other.

To God, the animals and our mutual creator, there are no stupid animals. They are all precious in his sight. As is the sanctity of life.

 

[westwall]

To God, the animals and our mutual creator, there are no stupid animals. They are all precious in his sight. As is the sanctity of life.

So, you are anti abortion then too. Right?

 

[kathydunn]

Wrong again. It's amazing how little you know about plants. Plants HAVE a central nervous system, it is just different from ours. They communicate, they have memory, they COUNT, they have reactions to music and other stimuli. In other words, plants DO think.

Disagree and the majority of studies done scientifically will prove that. Yes you are absolutely right they respond to stimuli. They communicate in certain ways. I do know quite a lot about plant life. And, they are intelligent life made by the hand of God! And they were given to us for food according to Genesis 1:29. And, quote: Given that plants do not have pain receptors, nerves, or a brain, they do not feel pain as we members of the animal kingdom understand it. Uprooting a carrot or trimming a hedge is not a form of botanical torture, and you can bite into that apple without worry. Do Plants Feel Pain?. Read the article.

 

[westwall]

Disagree and the majority of studies done scientifically will prove that. Yes you are absolutely right they respond to stimuli. They communicate anyways. They are intelligent life made by the hand of God! And they were given to us for food according to Genesis 1:29. And, quote: Given that plants do not have pain receptors, nerves, or a brain, they do not feel pain as we members of the animal kingdom understand it. Uprooting a carrot or trimming a hedge is not a form of botanical torture, and you can bite into that apple without worry. Do Plants Feel Pain?.

You are flat wrong. The video's are proof positive of what I claim. Trot out your "studies" that say otherwise.


From YOUR link...


"However, it seems that many plants can perceive and communicate physical stimuli and damage in ways that are more sophisticated than previously thought."


DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

 

[kathydunn]

We are all part of a natural cycle. You want to put humanity outside of it. I disagree with that because I believe it comes with a certain arrogance, like the arrogance you use when you put down people who choose to eat meat. Or the judgemental view that it must be all or nothing. I.E. if you aren’t a vegan, you can’t love animals.

Just as farming can be done in a sustainable fashion, animals can be raised ethically with respect and kindness.

This natural cycle that you talk about, is not natural at all. It is a fallen violent system / cycle that was never intended to happen. God created a world that was very good and all things worked together, were guided by him and were peaceful. In fact it's the word shalom. Which is far more than peace. What has been happening from the beginning is unnatural. Someone mentioned dinosaurs and that this system of death and life, this cycle of life and death, has been going on forever. It really has not been going on forever. I do not find faith and the biblical perspective to be in conflict with science. I hold the view of old Earth creationists. This is a great article and Greg Boyd, theologian and pastor, has written a lot of great articles on this topic. He has also done sermons on this topic. Evolution as Believers-A Clarification - Greg Boyd - ReKnew

 

[westwall]

This natural cycle that you talk about, is not natural at all. It is a fallen violent system / cycle that was never intended to happen. God created a world that was very good and all things worked together, were guided by him and were peaceful. In fact it's the word shalom. Which is far more than peace. What has been happening from the beginning is unnatural. Someone mentioned dinosaurs and that this system of death and life, this cycle of life and death, has been going on forever. It really has not been going on forever. I do not find faith and the biblical perspective to be in conflict with science. I hold the view of old Earth creationists. This is a great article and Greg Boyd, theologian and pastor, has written a lot of great articles on this topic. He has also done sermons on this topic. Evolution as Believers-A Clarification - Greg Boyd - ReKnew

What a load of baloney.

 

[kathydunn]

You are flat wrong. The video's are proof positive of what I claim. Trot out your "studies" that say otherwise.


From YOUR link...


"However, it seems that many plants can perceive and communicate physical stimuli and damage in ways that are more sophisticated than previously thought."


DURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR

I agree. In fact, they are discovering that underneath the forest floor there is a whole world of communication going on. That trees even communicate with each other and share resources, and other plants do the same thing. The thing I am trying to say is they do not have a brain. They do not have pain receptors or nerves. So they cannot feel pain. Are they intelligent life forms? Absolutely. Are they sentient? No, not like mammals / other animals including humans we are animals too. They are a different kind of creation. They are still intelligent life and they are alive. And they communicate and they thrive because their God, The God who created all things, created them this way. He also created them to be food for us. When we eat dead things we're eating death. When we eat living things that God intended us to eat, we are eating life which is what was intended. This life gives our bodies more life.

 

[kathydunn]

As an aside, there has been some incredible stuff found out about how trees communicate through their roots and micro organisms in the soul. It is absolutely incredible!

Yet...here you. arrogantly eating dead plant carcasses.

Yes I just responded in that thread about the incredible research being done with trees and forests and other plants. Underground they communicate in a magnificent ways, sharing resources even. Yet from a physical perspective they lack nerves and a brain which is required in order to have pain receptors. So yes, they are extremely intelligent life forms. I'd say that there's a whole ton yet we have to learn. But they don't feel pain, they can't, they lack the physical aspects of what causes pain, which is nerves and a brain. This is basic biology. We can agree that they are intelligent. There is a God who created all life and it is very intelligent all of it. It was all designed for a certain purpose. And eating plants was designed by God, for humans and animals to eat plants. It wasn't until the fall, when man corrupted all of creation, that violence entered the created order.