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So, no abortion... what about self defense?
I added to my post, so our posts must've crossed. But let me ask you, why would you think a vegan would be against self-defense? I mean pretty much everyone understands that self-defense is not the same thing as taking an innocent life.
I'm sorry, I thought this thread was long settled. It started out about fake meat and why dogs don't see it as food and then having lost that argument morphed to whether dogs were primary meat eaters (carnivores) or not and Coyote SETTLED that with her chart on the evolutionary tree. But now that the first argument was lost and then the second, now it has morphed into an ideological and philosophical one on the corruption of Mother Nature? C'mon.
What next, whether dogs come back to us in the next life???
Even with these inflated meat prices I can feed our golden retriever great food for less than a dollar a day with only 2hrs. of effort a month.
Ol Sawyer (the dog) wont even eat processed meat let alone the completely phony stuff..
Sacred describes something that is dedicated or set apart for the service or worship of a deity; is considered worthy of spiritual respect or devotion; or inspires awe or reverence. The Bible says over and over in many different passages that all creation worships God. All creation worships God. In Revelation and in other prophetic passages, all creation is described as coming around God's throne and worshiping him in the new age, when this age comes to an end. And to understand the sacredness of life one has to understand the beginning and what he created, what kind of world he created. He created a world that was non-violent and described each and every step of his process in creating as being good. When he finished creating this world, the creatures and us, he called it all very good. It all works together for the purpose that he created it for. Including eating plants. Humans and animals were to eat plants not each other. All life is sacred because of the purpose that God set it aside for. Plants are sacred they are our food. Animals and people were created to be in a relationship with one another and with God. This is why they are sacred. All life is sacred because it should inspire awe not in and of itself but because of its creator, it all serves a purpose that God created it for, and it is all deserving of spiritual respect. It all was designed to serve God's purposes.You claimed all life is sacred. How far does that extend?
Answer the question please.
Thank you. Well said.Sacred describes something that is dedicated or set apart for the service or worship of a deity; is considered worthy of spiritual respect or devotion; or inspires awe or reverence. The Bible says over and over in many different passages that all creation worships God. All creation worships God. In Revelation and in other prophetic passages, all creation is described as coming around God's throne and worshiping him in the new age, when this age comes to an end. And to understand the sacredness of life one has to understand the beginning and what he created, what kind of world he created. He created a world that was non-violent and described each and every step of his process in creating as being good. When he finished creating this world, the creatures and us, he called it all very good. It all works together for the purpose that he created it for. Including eating plants. Humans and animals were to eat plants not each other. All life is sacred because of the purpose that God set it aside for. Plants are sacred they are our food. Animals and people were created to be in a relationship with one another and with God. This is why they are sacred.
I am merely trying to determine what your limits are. Same as for Kathy, she keeps dodging the question though.
Some people are so pacifist they will not defend themselves.
it's not "phony" ya putz. It's BEANS. PROTEIN WITHOUT THE FAT.
I am merely trying to determine what your limits are. Same as for Kathy, she keeps dodging the question though.
Some people are so pacifist they will not defend themselves.
Yes, some are so pacifist they will not defend themselves. But some, like Greg boyd, theologian and teaching pastor, who is well known for his warfare worldview of theology and open theism, believes we shouldn't be violent even to the point of defending ourselves. The humble Jesus did not defend himself when violence was imposed upon him. There is a place for pacifism and complete nonviolence. And if one is to believe the Bible and make it authoritative, then there are worse things than to lose one's life during this age, meaning before the second coming of christ. To lose our souls is a far greater loss than our physical lives now. The Bible says it is appointed for man to die once and then the resurrection. And there is a saying that says something like know Christ die once, no Christ die twice. (Editing this again, I realize this is not how it goes the saying goes something like this I think Born twice die once; born once die twice; we must be born again to be able to participate in eternal life with Christ when this age ends).I am merely trying to determine what your limits are. Same as for Kathy, she keeps dodging the question though.
Some people are so pacifist they will not defend themselves.
Defend himself with what? Farming tools against the Roman Legion?The humble Jesus did not defend himself when violence was imposed upon him.
You do know that Jesus loved a good t-bone.But then Jesus eschewed politics entirely.
The Bible says that everything was put on this Earth for Man to enjoy and use. If God didn't want us eating steak, he wouldn't have invented animals.But we are talking about something entirely different in this thread.
The Bible says that everything was put on this Earth for Man to enjoy and use. If God didn't want us eating steak, he wouldn't have invented animals.
God wants us to enjoy life, but not at the expense of others... including the animals who God created and loves and entrusted to us to manage, but not in a selfish, exploitative way.
Genesis 9:3
3 Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. And as I gave you the green plants, I give you everything.
That verse kind of blows your theory, doesn't it?
It is how Christians ought to live. Many Christians are waking up to this. I don't know a lot about Jainism. I know some about it, when it comes to the Animal Kingdom it is a kinder more christ-like way to view animals. Unfortunately the God that saves isn't worshiped there or followed.By that definition the only animal lovers are those who are or live like the Jains.
.it's not "phony" ya putz.
It's BEANS. PROTEIN WITHOUT THE FAT.
Enjoy your clogged arteries
.. golly, I don't think I've ever offended a bean lover before .. 
Nope, it is honoring God's perfect will, as opposed to what God permits in this fallen world due to our hardness of heart.
No, I don't think so. The overall view of what the Bible teaches as she has described it throughout this thread, is the view of scripture that renders all of scripture most coherent. God is meeting people where they are when you see violent portraits of him. Also sometimes it's on the writer of the particular book or part of scripture, where they write from their particular view of God at that time. Take for example God enjoying the smell of burning flesh of animals during sacrifices. Is God enjoying the burning flesh of animals or is it the people who enjoy it so they think God does too? See you have to understand how to read these books. Also language changes over time. A very thorough understanding of Hebrew and of Aramaic is needed to interpret scripture correctly. And understanding of the Hebrew culture, God's chosen people, is necessary to understand how to interpret scripture to understand what's going on. Every genre of the Bible one needs to understand how to read. We're also reading ancient texts, and there's a need to understand culture as was said, what was going on at that time, how the people viewed the world. At one time people thought the dome above us, the sky, was a hard dome that could be cracked and it could fall down upon us, not understanding the atmosphere as we know it today because of what science has done for us. We don't take that part literally do we! So we have to really be careful. God is love. He can't be his anti-thesis. 1 Corinthians chapter 13 describes what love is, this is God. Everything that doesn't look like the sacrificial Jesus dying on a cross for his own people who utterly rejected him and hung him on the cross and the first place, and all people, who could deserve it less, is not from God. It's from someone else or something else. It's from the enemy. I've said in this thread somewhere else that Satan is the prince of this world according to scripture. Jesus when being tempted in the desert was brought before the kingdoms of the world and Satan told Jesus that he would give him all these kingdoms if Jesus bowed down and worshiped him. This tells us that the world we know then which was under Roman rule, and now which is our modern rule under all nations that carry the sword, are under the influence and power of Satan.She is using the Bible to justify her personal choices. She ignores the parts with which she doesn't agree. That is the epitome of sanctimonious and arrogant.
Deuteronomy 14:3-21 “You shall not eat any abomination. These are the animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the goat, the deer, the gazelle, the roebuck, the wild goat, the ibex, the antelope, and the mountain sheep. Every animal that parts the hoof and has the hoof cloven in two and chews the cud, among the animals, you may eat. Yet of those that chew the cud or have the hoof cloven you shall not eat these: the camel, the hare, and the rock badger, because they chew the cud but do not part the hoof, are unclean for you. ...
We already went over this. Please read what I posted to Admiral in post #234.
But also, I'll put it in a different way.
Christians are supposed to have an eternal perspective. (Phil 3:19)
Picture a timeline.
1. First you have the pre-Fall world (the Garden of Eden, which was basically paradise, no flesh eating)
2. Then after that we have this current temporary fallen world of sin, violence, death, pain, suffering, misery, carnism, etc.
3. And at the end of this age, when Jesus returns, that peaceful Edenic world will be restored, according to the prophetic scriptures. We will go back to no flesh eating, which was God's intent in the first place.
So here was my point, put in a different way....
YOU (and many others, of course) are focusing on #2 on the timeline, this temporary fallen world, because you want to eat flesh, you are looking in the bible for anything that would support what you want to do. But that is not God's perfect will. His perfect will never changed. Yes, he did set up some rules for the Israelites, but that is because God often works with us where we're at. When we are stubborn, selfish, inclined toward doing our own thing, God will give us certain rules and permit certain things in this fallen world. Like divorce, for example, God hates divorce but He allows it because of our hardness of heart. (see Mark 10:5) But that doesn't mean we have to do those things. As the bible says, just because something is permissible doesn't mean it's beneficial.
Again, Christians are told to have an eternal perspective, to want God's perfect will, which is not how things are in this messed up, fallen world. We are told to pray for God's kingdom to come and will to be done "on earth as it is in heaven." In the pre-fall world and the future restored world, there is no exploitation, brutality, killing, etc.
As I said to Admiral, if you're not a Christian I wouldn't expect you to agree with me or for this to apply to you. I'm just replying to you (and Admiral) from a biblical and big picture perspective, which is what Christians are told to have.
