The "Swift-boating" Of Tim Walz is coming...

[JoeB131]

Swift-boaters are hardly ever concerned with actual truths.

To be fair, some of the criticism of Kerry was valid.

Essentially, he was trying to whitewash his time as an anti-war protestor, and the people who were offended by stuff he did had every right to do so.

If Kerry had been more upfront about his anti-war activities (seriously, is anyone arguing Vietnam was a good idea at this point) but also showed remorse for some of the hurt feelings, he would have gotten past it.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

To be fair, some of the criticism of Kerry was valid.

Essentially, he was trying to whitewash his time as an anti-war protestor, and the people who were offended by stuff he did had every right to do so.

If Kerry had been more upfront about his anti-war activities (seriously, is anyone arguing Vietnam was a good idea at this point) but also showed remorse for some of the hurt feelings, he would have gotten past it.

btw, I was no real fan of the man himself, until I met the men who were actually in the Swiftboat with him.

Wrong. There was an orchestrated campaign from the right to go after Kerry. I was volunteering with the Kerry campaign ((through his US Senate Office in Boston) and remember speaking a few times (briefly), with the Presidential Historian Douglas Brinkley. I was with the Veterans who worked with constituent services and more.

The people who were weird about Kerry were that drunken officer who changed his story and Nixon's old pal John O'Neil

Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War - Douglas Brinkley

Covering more than four decades, this is the first full-scale, definitive account of Kerry's Journey from war to peace. Brinkley has drawn on extensive interviews with virtually everyone who knew Kerry in Vietnam.

douglasbrinkley.com

https://www.factcheck.org/2004/08/republican-funded-group-attacks-kerrys-war-record/

Haldeman: This guy now [O’Neill], is gonna, he’s gonna move on Kerry. He’s gonna move around the country.

June 16, 1971: Oval Office meeting with John O’Neill
Nixon: I really feel that what you’re doing, you’ll take brickbats, you go on some of these TV shows like the Cavett thing, you’re gonna get banged, but – you’ll get terribly discouraged and say the whole country’s – and so forth. But I think ya gotta remember, uh, you have to remember, that uh, that uh, now {unintelligible] in Vietnam should be enough, that now you would have the [unint] to get back and reassure people that those few that come back – like Kerry and the rest – don’t speak for all.

[edit]

Nixon: That’s great. Give it to him, give it to him. And you can do it, because you have a pleasant manner, too, because you’ve got – and I think it’s a great service to the country.

excerpts

Throughout, Brinkley deftly deals with issues such as U.S. atrocities in Vietnam and the bombing of Cambodia. Using information from the newly released Nixon tapes, Brinkley reveals how White house aides Charles Colson and H.R. Haldeman tried to discredit Kerry. Refusing to be intimidated, Kerry ran for public office, eventually becoming a senator from Massachusetts. But he never forgot his fallen comrades returning to Vietnam numerous times to look for MIAs and POWs. When president Clinton officially recognized Vietnam in 1995, at long last Kerry’s thirty-year-long tour of duty ended.

Tour of Duty: John Kerry and the Vietnam War - Douglas Brinkley

Covering more than four decades, this is the first full-scale, definitive account of Kerry's Journey from war to peace. Brinkley has drawn on extensive interviews with virtually everyone who knew Kerry in Vietnam.

douglasbrinkley.com

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

btw, I was no real fan of the man himself, until I met the men who were actually in the Swiftboat with him.

The important point to note here is that this piece presents only one side of the story:

Although the men quoted above are often identified as "John Kerry's shipmates," only one of them, Steven Gardner, actually served under Lt. Kerry's command on a Swift boat. The other men who served under Kerry's command continue to speak positively of him:


"In 1969, I was Sen. Kerry's gun mate atop of the Swift boat in Vietnam. And I just wanted to let everyone know that, contrary to all the rumors that you might hear from the other side, Sen. Kerry's blood is red, not blue. I know, I've seen it.

"If it weren't for Sen. John Kerry, on the 28th of February 1969, the day he won the Silver Star . . . you and I would not be having this conversation. My name would be on a long, black wall in Washington, D.C. I saw this man save my life."3
— Fred Short

"I can still see him now, standing in the doorway of the pilothouse, firing his M-16, shouting orders through the smoke and chaos . . . Even wounded, or confronting sights no man should ever have to see, he never lost his cool.
I had to sit on my hands [after a firefight], I was shaking so hard . . . He went to every man on that boat and put his arm around them and asked them how they're doing. I've never had an officer do that before or since. That's the mettle of the man, John Kerry."3
— David Alston

"What I saw back then [in Vietnam] was a guy with genuine caring and leadership ability who was aggressive when he had to be. What I see now is a guy who's not afraid to tackle tough issues. And he knows what the consequences are of putting people's kids in harm's way."2
— James Wasser

-- Snopes article

 

[JoeB131]

The people who were weird about Kerry were that drunken officer who changed his story and Nixon's old pal John O'Neil

So as I recall it, the guys on Kerry's boat liked him, but other boats in the same command didn't care for him, especially since he came back and said they did horrible things.

O'Neil too charge of the boat after Kerry was rotated out after his third purple heart.

So O'Neil and Kerry had a 30 year grudge match over something that was kind of petty, at the end of the day.

I still blame Kerry in that he was kind of disingenuous in how he presented himself. "Look, I'm a veteran, I can guide us out of this war that I voted to let Bush get us into!"

And the main impetus was that they were going to do a bunch of hit pieces on Bush's military service that backfired on them spectacularly when Dan Rather tried to pass off MS Word documents as official memos.

Here's a crazy idea. If someone earned a DD214, instead of taking stuff out of context from documents or relying on the memories of guys in the unit who didn't like you, just give them the credit for serving and move on with it.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

So as I recall it, the guys on Kerry's boat liked him, but other boats in the same command didn't care for him, especially since he came back and said they did horrible things.

Not exactly true.

Those who attacked him were not your average "guys on the other boats." That false narrative took off because of the rightwing noise machine back then having so much influence.

O'Neil too charge of the boat after Kerry was rotated out after his third purple heart.

So O'Neil and Kerry had a 30 year grudge match over something that was kind of petty, at the end of the day.

yes and there is that Texan...

I still blame Kerry in that he was kind of disingenuous in how he presented himself. "Look, I'm a veteran, I can guide us out of this war that I voted to let Bush get us into!"

And the main impetus was that they were going to do a bunch of hit pieces on Bush's military service that backfired on them spectacularly when Dan Rather tried to pass off MS Word documents as official memos.

Here's a crazy idea. If someone earned a DD214, instead of taking stuff out of context from documents or relying on the memories of guys in the unit who didn't like you, just give them the credit for serving and move on with it.

The above is just more of that shit I kept hearing from drunks down at the local Vet clubs... especially the Vietnam Era vets. Not Vietnam War vets or combat vets, but those who got included when it all became Vietnam Era.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

What happened with Kerry will be happening, and is happening with Walz right now. I assume there are plans to deal with the troll narratives and bs that somehow came to define Kerry -- a combat veteran.

 

[rampart]

Beware. Be Ready. The "Swift-boating" Of Tim Walz is coming. I seem to remember some rightwing nuts going after Walz back in 2018. I was there when they went after Kerry on 2004. These people cannot help themselves.

They were desperate then, they will be viciously so now. Get ready. Rightwing rags are ready to go.

Tim Walz left National Guard battalion ‘hanging,’ ‘slithered out the door’ before Iraq deployment: vets

Veterans have accused Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz of “embellishing” his military career and abandoning his National Guard battalion, highlighting that the now-vice presidential pick for the Democrats n…

nypost.com

HE beat them back then. He will do so again. But it will get nasty.

they really hate veterans, don't they?

when trump talks about losers and such they deny it, but that is what they all believe.

 

[Winco]

A drunk driver and an AWOL coward.

Nice pick you've got there...

remember that you are voting for this

A rapist
A convicted felon x34
A con man
A fraud
A pathological liar
A Hillbilly
Great choices

 

[JusticeHammer]

Beware. Be Ready. The "Swift-boating" Of Tim Walz is coming. I seem to remember some rightwing nuts going after Walz back in 2018. I was there when they went after Kerry on 2004. These people cannot help themselves.

They were desperate then, they will be viciously so now. Get ready. Rightwing rags are ready to go.

Tim Walz left National Guard battalion ‘hanging,’ ‘slithered out the door’ before Iraq deployment: vets

Veterans have accused Minnesota Gov. Tim Walz of “embellishing” his military career and abandoning his National Guard battalion, highlighting that the now-vice presidential pick for the Democrats n…

nypost.com

HE beat them back then. He will do so again. But it will get nasty.

Kerry was and still is a lying pussy.

 

[JusticeHammer]

remember that you are voting for this

A rapist
A convicted felon x34
A con man
A fraud
A pathological liar
A Hillbilly
Great choices

Better than any demscum.

 

[SassyIrishLass]

Kerry was and still is a lying pussy.

America dodged a bullet when he lost the election

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I await you proving this statement.

 

[JohnDB]

 

[marvin martian]

except he wasn't AWOL, he completed his term of service... like 30 years or so.

And he was charged of reckless driving, not DUI.

He was arrested for DUI, and blew far over the limit, but because of DemoKKKrat privilege, he pleaded it down to reckless driving.

 

[JoeB131]

The above is just more of that shit I kept hearing from drunks down at the local Vet clubs... especially the Vietnam Era vets. Not Vietnam War vets or combat vets, but those who got included when it all became Vietnam Era.

Well, it's why I don't get drunk or hang out at vet clubs. I freely admit, most of my military service was sitting behind a desk filling out paperwork. Any who served deserves my respect unless proven otherwise.

I'm proud of the fact that I made the rank of E=6, but then again, so did Timothy McVeigh.

But I don't care what you did in the service, vets had a good reason to be pissed off at Kerry, because he said awful things about what they were doing over there.

 

[JoeB131]

He was arrested for DUI, and blew far over the limit, but because of DemoKKKrat privilege, he pleaded it down to reckless driving.

What kind of privilege did he have in 1996 before he ever got elected to office?

He got it pleaded down because the officer didn't follow procedure.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Well, it's why I don't get drunk or hang out at vet clubs. I freely admit, most of my military service was sitting behind a desk filling out paperwork. Any who served deserves my respect unless proven otherwise.

I'm proud of the fact that I made the rank of E=6, but then again, so did Timothy McVeigh.

But I don't care what you did in the service, vets had a good reason to be pissed off at Kerry, because he said awful things about what they were doing over there.

My Lai? It was not as much an aberration as some still insist...

and what Kerry testified to in a Congressional hearing is what he said others had claimed. He gave them a voice.


"Hundreds of Vietnamese civilians died at the hands of American soldiers, but Lieutenant Calley was the only one found guilty."

"Harry Stanley, a machine gunner from Charlie Company, said during the U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Division inquiry that the killings started without warning. He first observed a member of 1st Platoon strike a Vietnamese man with a bayonet. Then the same trooper pushed another villager into a well and threw a grenade in the well. Next, he saw fifteen or twenty people, mainly women and children, kneeling around a temple with burning incense. They were praying and crying. They were all killed by shots to the head.[37]" -- Wikipedia

"In 1998, 30 years after the massacre, Thompson and the two other members of his crew, Andreotta and Colburn, were awarded the Soldier's Medal (Andreotta posthumously), the United States Army's highest award for bravery not involving direct contact with the enemy.[2] Thompson and Colburn returned to Sơn Mỹ to meet with survivors of the massacre at the Sơn Mỹ Memorial in 1998. In 1999, Thompson and Colburn received the Peace Abbey Courage of Conscience Award." -- Wikipedia

William L. Calley Jr., Convicted in My Lai Massacre, Is Dead at 80

My Lai massacre - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Hugh Thompson: True American Hero - Profile-in-courage

Hugh Thompson Jr. - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[JoeB131]

My Lai? It was not as much an aberration as some still insist...

I'm sure it wasn't. As an aside, Rusty Calley passed away recently.

But it's kind of like tarring all police officers with Darrin Chauvin. Most of them are out there, trying to do a good job under difficult circumstances.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I'm sure it wasn't. As an aside, Rusty Calley passed away recently.

But it's kind of like tarring all police officers with Darrin Chauvin. Most of them are out there, trying to do a good job under difficult circumstances.

Calley was a guilty dick, but they did hold him out as a Scapegoat burying other similar shit. I know as a kid some returning soldiers would brag about nasty deeds and the commies. But later being in Vet clubs and groups, their stories and narratives changed.

Kerry did not try and tar the whole military with the crimes he testified about hearing others tell him. That's always been an issue for me. The bs narratives. Even before I did not care for the man himself, before I met the men in the boat(s) with him...

And I personally saw how two Medal of Honor recipients treated the Senator (with respect), and I became close enough with Senator Max Cleland.