Don’t Believe the Democrat Attacks on Tax Reform. Here Are the Facts.

[Darkwind]

The status quo (doing nothing) won't work. Tax increases won't work. Tax cuts a step in the right direction but look government waste and fraud alone this year...over $400 billion that will pay for the tax cuts 3 times over. That's 10% of the Federal budget.

How about you discuss the actual bill instead of irrelevancies?

Can you explain why increasing debt by 1.7T dollar to prop up "WINNING!" economy with tax cuts for the rich is such a great idea???

Don't care about debt? Ok, then why not blow this money on DIRECTLY reducing cost of employment of Americans? DIRECTLY giving all low and mid income Americans a major tax cut instead of left overs?

Why do we simply give-away to corporations, instead of cutting their loopholes in exchange for lower rate?

How do you give a tax cut to someone who pays no taxes?

 

[Skull Pilot]

We need to scrap our income tax completely and either institute a flat tax on income or a consumption tax.

Tramp is cutting the consumption tax from 35% to 20%.

that's the corporate tax isn't it?

As far as I know we do not have a consumption tax in the US

We have all kinds of consumption taxes in the U.S., you have state and local sales taxes and various excise taxes at the federal level (e.g. gasoline).

We just don't have a uniform, transparent (i.e. right there on the price sticker) consumption tax at the federal level, which is unfortunate since IMHO it would be a FAR more efficient, less subject to corruption and just than the income tax system.

State taxes aren't worth talking about on a national forum.

What "national forum" are you referring to? isn't state and local consumption based taxation a part of the tax burden in the US?

Beyond that; like I said, the Federal Government DOES also levy consumption based taxes on a national level.

You said

As far as I know we do not have a consumption tax in the US

I updated your information by pointing out why "as far as you know" was inaccurate since we have many consumption based taxes in the U.S.

You're welcome.

State taxes differ too much to have a meaningful discussion. So for you further reference if you ever respond to any of my posts on taxes you now know that I mean FEDERAL taxes only.

Federal taxes affect everyone so those are what I talk about. You don't give a shit about taxes in my state if you don't live in my state so why talk about them here?

 

[AntonToo]

We need to scrap our income tax completely and either institute a flat tax on income or a consumption tax.

Tramp is cutting the consumption tax from 35% to 20%.

that's the corporate tax isn't it?

As far as I know we do not have a consumption tax in the US

As everyone knows, any corporate taxes are passed on to the consumer in the price for the goods and services consumed. So the corporate tax IS a consumption tax, and we are told by the CON$ that corporate taxes are bad but consumption taxes are "fair."

Except the only ones that "know this" are corporatist shills.

PROFITS are taxed, not costs. If corporation's after-tax-profits increase that DOES NOT AT ALL mean that products will now be correspondingly cheaper or they will hire more or pay more salaries.

Apple makes SILLY profit margin on their iPhones and no matter how much after-tax profits they make they will STILL want more after-tax profit and will charge for their product AS MUCH AS THEY CAN GET AWAY WITH no matter how much tax they pay.

 

[Skull Pilot]

But those payroll taxes fund social security and medicare that the middle class uses far more than the rich.

They are part of the general fund and payroll tax surpluses funded Bush's tax cuts, for example.

Tax cuts do not have to be funded. Spending has to be funded

 

[Skull Pilot]

Most middle class folk will get a very small decrease. Why didn't they propose a much larger decrease only for the middle class? If you want extra money in peoples hands then do it. A couple hundred will not spur job growth or more importantly massive wage increases....like double as we have been told.

Most of the so called middle class pay very little income tax anyway

That includes you.

Maybe maybe not. You don't know how much I make and I sure ain't telling you.

 

[Skull Pilot]

We need to scrap our income tax completely

Ok thanks for your 2 cents, come again when that has anything to do with anything..

Cherry pick and quote huh?

Either quote the whole post or don't quote at all Asswipe

You don't get it - scraping income tax is NOT IN THIS DISCUSSION. It has nothing to do with this thread about tax-cuts on the table right now.

Stop diluting the thread.

Fuck you.

If I want to add an opinion I will.

Don't like it? Don't read my fucking posts.

Don't worry snowflake, you of are of course are free to post your stupid comments and disregard all good advice.

If I want good advice you are the last person I would ask.

 

[AntonToo]

The status quo (doing nothing) won't work. Tax increases won't work. Tax cuts a step in the right direction but look government waste and fraud alone this year...over $400 billion that will pay for the tax cuts 3 times over. That's 10% of the Federal budget.

How about you discuss the actual bill instead of irrelevancies?

Can you explain why increasing debt by 1.7T dollar to prop up "WINNING!" economy with tax cuts for the rich is such a great idea???

Don't care about debt? Ok, then why not blow this money on DIRECTLY reducing cost of employment of Americans? DIRECTLY giving all low and mid income Americans a major tax cut instead of left overs?

Why do we simply give-away to corporations, instead of cutting their loopholes in exchange for lower rate?

How do you give a tax cut to someone who pays no taxes?

Bullshit.

 

[NightFox]

Tramp is cutting the consumption tax from 35% to 20%.

that's the corporate tax isn't it?

As far as I know we do not have a consumption tax in the US

We have all kinds of consumption taxes in the U.S., you have state and local sales taxes and various excise taxes at the federal level (e.g. gasoline).

We just don't have a uniform, transparent (i.e. right there on the price sticker) consumption tax at the federal level, which is unfortunate since IMHO it would be a FAR more efficient, less subject to corruption and just than the income tax system.

State taxes aren't worth talking about on a national forum.

What "national forum" are you referring to? isn't state and local consumption based taxation a part of the tax burden in the US?

Beyond that; like I said, the Federal Government DOES also levy consumption based taxes on a national level.

You said

As far as I know we do not have a consumption tax in the US

I updated your information by pointing out why "as far as you know" was inaccurate since we have many consumption based taxes in the U.S.

You're welcome.

State taxes differ too much to have a meaningful discussion. So for you further reference if you ever respond to any of my posts on taxes you now know that I mean FEDERAL taxes only.Federal taxes affect everyone so those are what I talk about. You don't give a shit about taxes in my state if you don't live in my state so why talk about them here?

Okay, I get it , for whatever reason you don't like discussing state taxes, fair enough, however as I said FEDERAL consumption taxes exist, thus you've learned something new today which should prove useful to you in future discussions involving FEDERAL taxation.

 

[Skull Pilot]

that's the corporate tax isn't it?

As far as I know we do not have a consumption tax in the US

We have all kinds of consumption taxes in the U.S., you have state and local sales taxes and various excise taxes at the federal level (e.g. gasoline).

We just don't have a uniform, transparent (i.e. right there on the price sticker) consumption tax at the federal level, which is unfortunate since IMHO it would be a FAR more efficient, less subject to corruption and just than the income tax system.

State taxes aren't worth talking about on a national forum.

What "national forum" are you referring to? isn't state and local consumption based taxation a part of the tax burden in the US?

Beyond that; like I said, the Federal Government DOES also levy consumption based taxes on a national level.

You said

As far as I know we do not have a consumption tax in the US

I updated your information by pointing out why "as far as you know" was inaccurate since we have many consumption based taxes in the U.S.

You're welcome.

State taxes differ too much to have a meaningful discussion. So for you further reference if you ever respond to any of my posts on taxes you now know that I mean FEDERAL taxes only.Federal taxes affect everyone so those are what I talk about. You don't give a shit about taxes in my state if you don't live in my state so why talk about them here?

Okay, I get it , for whatever reason you don't like discussing state taxes, fair enough, however as I said FEDERAL consumption taxes exist, thus you've learned something new today which should prove useful to you in future discussions involving FEDERAL taxation.

And they on just a few things.

When speaking of a consumption tax to replace the income tax it is generally understood that it is a tax on everything consumed not just a few things

 

[Darkwind]

The status quo (doing nothing) won't work. Tax increases won't work. Tax cuts a step in the right direction but look government waste and fraud alone this year...over $400 billion that will pay for the tax cuts 3 times over. That's 10% of the Federal budget.

How about you discuss the actual bill instead of irrelevancies?

Can you explain why increasing debt by 1.7T dollar to prop up "WINNING!" economy with tax cuts for the rich is such a great idea???

Don't care about debt? Ok, then why not blow this money on DIRECTLY reducing cost of employment of Americans? DIRECTLY giving all low and mid income Americans a major tax cut instead of left overs?

Why do we simply give-away to corporations, instead of cutting their loopholes in exchange for lower rate?

How do you give a tax cut to someone who pays no taxes?

Bullshit.

You didn't answer My question. I am not surprised. Your graph is meaningless, btw. Unless it provides methods and data.

Half of this country does not pay taxes. So, if they don't pay taxes, how do you give them a tax break?

 

[AntonToo]

But those payroll taxes fund social security and medicare that the middle class uses far more than the rich.

They are part of the general fund and payroll tax surpluses funded Bush's tax cuts, for example.

Tax cuts do not have to be funded. Spending has to be funded

Do you seriously not get that if you cut your revenues and do not have other income to MAKE UP for that loss (amid growing deficits as far as the eye can see) your DEBT goes up?

 

[AntonToo]

The status quo (doing nothing) won't work. Tax increases won't work. Tax cuts a step in the right direction but look government waste and fraud alone this year...over $400 billion that will pay for the tax cuts 3 times over. That's 10% of the Federal budget.

How about you discuss the actual bill instead of irrelevancies?

Can you explain why increasing debt by 1.7T dollar to prop up "WINNING!" economy with tax cuts for the rich is such a great idea???

Don't care about debt? Ok, then why not blow this money on DIRECTLY reducing cost of employment of Americans? DIRECTLY giving all low and mid income Americans a major tax cut instead of left overs?

Why do we simply give-away to corporations, instead of cutting their loopholes in exchange for lower rate?

How do you give a tax cut to someone who pays no taxes?

Bullshit.

You didn't answer My question. I am not surprised. Your graph is meaningless, btw. Unless it provides methods and data.

Half of this country does not pay taxes. So, if they don't pay taxes, how do you give them a tax break?

YES I did, you are just too stupid to get it.

"Half of this country don't pay taxes" is bullshit. It is only true if you NARROWLY isolate federal income tax. People still pay federal payroll taxes and AS MY GRAPH SHOWS, even bottom 20% of earners pay Federal taxes.

 

[Darkwind]

The status quo (doing nothing) won't work. Tax increases won't work. Tax cuts a step in the right direction but look government waste and fraud alone this year...over $400 billion that will pay for the tax cuts 3 times over. That's 10% of the Federal budget.

How about you discuss the actual bill instead of irrelevancies?

Can you explain why increasing debt by 1.7T dollar to prop up "WINNING!" economy with tax cuts for the rich is such a great idea???

Don't care about debt? Ok, then why not blow this money on DIRECTLY reducing cost of employment of Americans? DIRECTLY giving all low and mid income Americans a major tax cut instead of left overs?

Why do we simply give-away to corporations, instead of cutting their loopholes in exchange for lower rate?

How do you give a tax cut to someone who pays no taxes?

Bullshit.

You didn't answer My question. I am not surprised. Your graph is meaningless, btw. Unless it provides methods and data.

Half of this country does not pay taxes. So, if they don't pay taxes, how do you give them a tax break?

YES I did you are just too fucking stupid to get it.

"Half of this country" is bullshit. People still pay federal payroll taxes and AS MY GRAPH SHOWS, even bottom 20% of earners pay Federal taxes.

You call others stupid when you're that fucking dumb?

They get every dime of those taxes back plus MORE. In other words, they pay no taxes.

God, you're a fucking idiot.

 

[busybee01]

As usual, DemocRATs scream how it “favors the rich” and “raises taxes on the middle class.” And, as usual, it’s nothing but bull poop! This article spells out some of the truths and is worth reading.

Regarding the middle class, Democrats fail to mention that under the new House plan, the standardized deduction would almost double from $6,350 to over $12,000 for single filers, and $12,700 to $24,000 for married couples filing jointly. That means the number of Americans who claim the standard deduction would likely go from 60 percent of all filers to 90 percent.

Critics also fail to mention that the tax credit per child would increase from $1,000 to $1,600.

Additionally, critics don’t admit that the impact of simplifying the tax code would disproportionately help lower- and middle-income taxpayers, most of whom would be able to file their taxes using a simple postcard.

More @ Don't Believe the Democrat Attacks on Tax Reform. Here Are the Facts.

Here is the real truth. The rich will get large tax cuts across the board. The effect on the middle class will be mixed with some paying higher taxes. The Democrats are partially right. You lose the personal exemption and despite the increase in the standard deduction, you lose money from the loss of the personal exemption if you have more than 3 people in your family. Also the standard deduction is not indexed for inflation and the brackets are indexed using the chained CPI which is lower than the CPI. People will be pushed into higher tax brackets. Also you have the loss of the deduction of state and local taxes which means you will be paying taxes on taxes. That will hurt taxpayers who live in the suburbs as well as red states.

What matters is what you are paying in taxes not the size of the tax form. The size has no impact.

 

[AntonToo]

How about you discuss the actual bill instead of irrelevancies?

Can you explain why increasing debt by 1.7T dollar to prop up "WINNING!" economy with tax cuts for the rich is such a great idea???

Don't care about debt? Ok, then why not blow this money on DIRECTLY reducing cost of employment of Americans? DIRECTLY giving all low and mid income Americans a major tax cut instead of left overs?

Why do we simply give-away to corporations, instead of cutting their loopholes in exchange for lower rate?

How do you give a tax cut to someone who pays no taxes?

Bullshit.

You didn't answer My question. I am not surprised. Your graph is meaningless, btw. Unless it provides methods and data.

Half of this country does not pay taxes. So, if they don't pay taxes, how do you give them a tax break?

YES I did you are just too fucking stupid to get it.

"Half of this country" is bullshit. People still pay federal payroll taxes and AS MY GRAPH SHOWS, even bottom 20% of earners pay Federal taxes.

You call others stupid when you're that fucking dumb?

They get every dime of those taxes back plus MORE. In other words, they pay no taxes.

God, you're a fucking idiot.

No they don't, you are clueless.

Want to dispute that? Ok bring data on TOTAL Federal taxation, not just cherry picked income tax, while pretending that other Federal taxes are not being paid.

 

[NightFox]

When speaking of a consumption tax to replace the income tax it is generally understood that it is a tax on everything consumed not just a few things

Uh-huh, that's probable if one happens to find oneself discussing that with a group of superficial sheeple, however that wasn't my objective

My objective was to correct your ignorance of the fact that consumption taxes already exist in the U.S.

The polite thing to do would be to just say "Thank You".

Hasta la vista

 

[PredFan]

Not one believes anything the democrats say. That’s why Trump is potus despite the massive effort by the left to destroy him.

....here is your argument:

Trump is not lying because he won.

It's a STUPID argument.

When Trump says that this bill will not help millionares and billionares like him he is FULL OF SHIT. And it's bizzare that instead of using your own head and calling him out you are here making these dumb-ass deflective comments.

No idiot, that is not my argument. Learn to read.

 

[jc456]

Not one believes anything the democrats say. That’s why Trump is potus despite the massive effort by the left to destroy him.

I believe most everyone today understands the left have become the Peanut's human voices.... wha, wha, wha, wha, wha.

 

[jc456]

Not one believes anything the democrats say. That’s why Trump is potus despite the massive effort by the left to destroy him.

....here is your argument:

Trump is not lying because he won.

It's a STUPID argument.

When Trump says that this bill will not help millionares and billionares like him he is FULL OF SHIT. And it's bizzare that instead of using your own head and calling him out you are here making these dumb-ass deflective comments.

No idiot, that is not my argument. Learn to read.

ah, they're talking for you again.

 

[bendog]

It is the gop congressional donors' relief bill.