Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind the NSA surveillance revelations

[Kondor3]

Based on what I understand of the situation so far, and the range of spying that the Federal Government is being accused-of, beyond the legal and/or ethical range of their powers, I'm not convinced that this Snowden kid did anything bad... he might very well have violated a zillion different Security Clearance protocols and laws but he appears to have done a good thing on behalf of the country. Perhaps I've got it wrong. But, if that sort of thinking is 'right' (ethically, anyway) then the kid should probably get a medal rather than a trial for a capital offense.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind the NSA surveillance revelations | World news | guardian.co.uk

It's probable that the government is going to go after this hero, harshly, when, in fact, they should be the ones arrested.

He is not a hero.

He is not a villain necessarily, either.

But let's not get all carried away.

The laws exist for a reason and he intentionally took it upon himself to decide what worth the law was in regard to the secret nature of this information.

It was not his call to make. Nobody elected him.

Yes, the laws exist for a reason, and the government broke them. It doesn't matter that he wasn't elected. He exposed the crimes of people who were elected. He tried to complain to the people above him, as he explains in the interview, but they wouldn't listen. So he decided that we should all decide for ourselves, and I'm glad he made that decision and admire his bravery in doing so. You can say it wasn't his decision to make, but it wasn't the U.S. government's decision to spy on every American in such a fashion, and that is what we should be worried about. The government is not going to hold itself accountable, and we can't if we don't know what they're doing.

Spot on. It's actually quite simple:
Who watches the watchers?

 

[Interpol]

He watched the transition of info being used against terrorists to being used against political enemies of Obama.

OK, recall that the Obama Campaign had computer systems and programs to provide state of the art information about voters and voting patterns. It was mind boggling in its sophistication.
What are the odds that information gleaned at NSA was used in constructing that system? Not saying it happened. But what are the odds? And if true, should Obama be impeached, removed, tried and jailed?

I don't think that the President is very implicated in these things because he is not a paranoid man the way Nixon was or how the Neo-Cons are.

I think this stuff is much bigger than the President and the executive branch of power. Under the previous administration, laws were written to favor the NSA and to make these methods of surveillance legal.

I think that Obama was right in his speech a couple weeks ago on national security to bring up the idea of getting "We the People" to think hard about what kind of powers should be afforded to the federal government, from the executive branch on down, where all this stuff has grown to be a systematic problem.

There are people in jobs that the President isn't even aware of who appear to be able to do dubious things, and what the heck, the Patriot Act covers them for doing so. We should change that.

On the matter of Snowden, however, as the law exists already, he appeared to take the law into his own hands when he decided to leak stuff. It may be totally fair why he did it, but the law does not appear to allow him to do so.

Snowden should have resigned in protest and then go on a big book and speaking tour to get out the message about how to change things for the better so we can have freedom and security in more harmony.

 

[IlarMeilyr]

He is not a hero.

He is not a villain necessarily, either.

But let's not get all carried away.

The laws exist for a reason and he intentionally took it upon himself to decide what worth the law was in regard to the secret nature of this information.

It was not his call to make. Nobody elected him.

Yes, the laws exist for a reason, and the government broke them. It doesn't matter that he wasn't elected. He exposed the crimes of people who were elected. He tried to complain to the people above him, as he explains in the interview, but they wouldn't listen. So he decided that we should all decide for ourselves, and I'm glad he made that decision and admire his bravery in doing so. You can say it wasn't his decision to make, but it wasn't the U.S. government's decision to spy on every American in such a fashion, and that is what we should be worried about. The government is not going to hold itself accountable, and we can't if we don't know what they're doing.

Spot on. It's actually quite simple:
Who watches the watchers?

The old question was: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? Who will guard the guards, themselves? The answer is not exactly supposed to be a locked-room mystery.

We do. Or, we are supposed to.

But that doesn't justify intentionally breaking a law involving classified information.

 

[Ravi]

He is not a hero.

He is not a villain necessarily, either.

But let's not get all carried away.

The laws exist for a reason and he intentionally took it upon himself to decide what worth the law was in regard to the secret nature of this information.

It was not his call to make. Nobody elected him.

Yes, the laws exist for a reason, and the government broke them. It doesn't matter that he wasn't elected. He exposed the crimes of people who were elected. He tried to complain to the people above him, as he explains in the interview, but they wouldn't listen. So he decided that we should all decide for ourselves, and I'm glad he made that decision and admire his bravery in doing so. You can say it wasn't his decision to make, but it wasn't the U.S. government's decision to spy on every American in such a fashion, and that is what we should be worried about. The government is not going to hold itself accountable, and we can't if we don't know what they're doing.

Spot on. It's actually quite simple:
Who watches the watchers?

the FISA court, which you, along with all the other nutters, went along with back when Bush agreed to stop warrantless wiretaps.

 

[flacaltenn]

He watched the transition of info being used against terrorists to being used against political enemies of Obama.

OK, recall that the Obama Campaign had computer systems and programs to provide state of the art information about voters and voting patterns. It was mind boggling in its sophistication.
What are the odds that information gleaned at NSA was used in constructing that system? Not saying it happened. But what are the odds? And if true, should Obama be impeached, removed, tried and jailed?

I don't think that the President is very implicated in these things because he is not a paranoid man the way Nixon was or how the Neo-Cons are.

I think this stuff is much bigger than the President and the executive branch of power. Under the previous administration, laws were written to favor the NSA and to make these methods of surveillance legal.

I think that Obama was right in his speech a couple weeks ago on national security to bring up the idea of getting "We the People" to think hard about what kind of powers should be afforded to the federal government, from the executive branch on down, where all this stuff has grown to be a systematic problem.

There are people in jobs that the President isn't even aware of who appear to be able to do dubious things, and what the heck, the Patriot Act covers them for doing so. We should change that.

On the matter of Snowden, however, as the law exists already, he appeared to take the law into his own hands when he decided to leak stuff. It may be totally fair why he did it, but the law does not appear to allow him to do so.

Snowden should have resigned in protest and then go on a big book and speaking tour to get out the message about how to change things for the better so we can have freedom and security in more harmony.

A book and tour? Oh that would be effective. Maybe Oprah would pick it up. Yeah then it wouldn't be leaking would it?? Since we have no real oversight of this program, even by the folks who THINK they are watching, Snowden did the right thing..
And damaged approximately NOTHING in the process.

 

[Ravi]

Perhaps outsourcing the intelligence department was a stupid mistake. At least we haven't outsourced it to India.

 

[Jarlaxle]

How far will the Chinese go to protect Snowden? They have a knowledgeable defector who can lay waste to the government. The US extradites and the Chinese say no.

Obama will not make this man his Helen of Troy.

When Xi was patting obama on the head making nice Xi KNEW that he had the goods.

Snowden doesn't NEED to spill anything to the Chinese to be valuable to them.. He's not a defector -- he's a genuine political refugee fleeing persecution.. It's a CLEAR case of giving him asylum because his country is persecuting him..

Actually --- it's quite brilliant. They'll never extradite him.. Not even to trade for any of their "political refugees".. And they will give him cameras, and internet sites and all access to the media so that he can continually discuss Civil Rights and Civil DisObedience in the United State of America.

Anytime we pound them on Civil Rights issues, he'll be their response. "You Yankee Dogs want to kill this man for telling your people you were spying on them extalegally. Shame be on you for lecturing us"..

In that case...he will either be killed, or he will be muzzled (threats against family, maybe).

 

[Katzndogz]

Snowden's family could be smuggled out of the country. Their lives are in danger.

 

[Contumacious]

I've been away all day, so I don't know if this has been posted or not.



More: Edward Snowden Is A Ron Paul Supporter

Thanks for providing that character reference. I trust his judgement more now you moron.
That's all ya got????

Do you even UNDERSTAND that Ron Paul is one of the HANDFUL politicians INNOCENT of any complicity in this matter? Or is complicity too big a word for you?

Ron Paul isn't all bad: he's only half insane.

Coming from you a genuine socialist fucktard, that is a compliment.

.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Someone please refresh my memory. What's the big leak---people have known about this since Bush. Aren't we just revisiting an old issue ?

There isn't a big leak. The NSA is authorized by Congress and the courts to do exactly what it was 'leaked' they were doing. The only difference is now we - and our enemies - know a few more details.

If Snowden had been caught doing what he did in 1943 he would have been hung and no one would have given a damn except his mother.

The truly servile mindset: "As long as the government has given itself permission to steal everybody's data, it must be ok."

He's just a natural-born boot-licker.

 

[flacaltenn]

How far will the Chinese go to protect Snowden? They have a knowledgeable defector who can lay waste to the government. The US extradites and the Chinese say no.

Obama will not make this man his Helen of Troy.

When Xi was patting obama on the head making nice Xi KNEW that he had the goods.

Snowden doesn't NEED to spill anything to the Chinese to be valuable to them.. He's not a defector -- he's a genuine political refugee fleeing persecution.. It's a CLEAR case of giving him asylum because his country is persecuting him..

Actually --- it's quite brilliant. They'll never extradite him.. Not even to trade for any of their "political refugees".. And they will give him cameras, and internet sites and all access to the media so that he can continually discuss Civil Rights and Civil DisObedience in the United State of America.

Anytime we pound them on Civil Rights issues, he'll be their response. "You Yankee Dogs want to kill this man for telling your people you were spying on them extalegally. Shame be on you for lecturing us"..

In that case...he will either be killed, or he will be muzzled (threats against family, maybe).

Did you mean by the Chinese? or by us? I think you meant the latter.. Good luck with that. Doing a hit on Chinese soil or making the cover-up a bigger issue. Won't be a coincidence if "sumtin awful were to happen to youse family" right now or EVEN in a year from now.

 

[Jarlaxle]

OOpyDoo is too dense to know when his door has busted, his dog shot, and he's cuffed with his stuff going out the door without a warrant that his rights have been violated..

No, worse than that. He knows, and he APPROVES.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Under what "authority" do you deny a search of your vehicle?

Is the government never allowed to search a vehicle?

Not without probably cause, no. Of course, they'll be revoking that protection pretty soon too I suspect. Will you be cheering them on?

Probably...he's just a born boot-licker.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Under what "authority" do you take the 5th Amendment? Under what "authority" do you deny a search of your vehicle? OoopyDoo -- get out of my face with your smokescreened defense of this outrage...

If I were to take an oath of secrecy with the government, how do I determine when it is OK for me to violate that oath? Just whenever I feel like it?

It is never OK for you to violate the oath, there may be times when it is right.

There are times when it is your DUTY.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Yes, the laws exist for a reason, and the government broke them. It doesn't matter that he wasn't elected. He exposed the crimes of people who were elected. He tried to complain to the people above him, as he explains in the interview, but they wouldn't listen. So he decided that we should all decide for ourselves, and I'm glad he made that decision and admire his bravery in doing so. You can say it wasn't his decision to make, but it wasn't the U.S. government's decision to spy on every American in such a fashion, and that is what we should be worried about. The government is not going to hold itself accountable, and we can't if we don't know what they're doing.

Spot on. It's actually quite simple:
Who watches the watchers?

the FISA court, which you, along with all the other nutters, went along with back when Bush agreed to stop warrantless wiretaps.

Fuck off and die, you lying whore. I was against is then, I am against it now.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Snowden's family could be smuggled out of the country. Their lives are in danger.

I suspect they are already under surveillance. Trying to get them out might get them killed.

 

[Jarlaxle]

Snowden doesn't NEED to spill anything to the Chinese to be valuable to them.. He's not a defector -- he's a genuine political refugee fleeing persecution.. It's a CLEAR case of giving him asylum because his country is persecuting him..

Actually --- it's quite brilliant. They'll never extradite him.. Not even to trade for any of their "political refugees".. And they will give him cameras, and internet sites and all access to the media so that he can continually discuss Civil Rights and Civil DisObedience in the United State of America.

Anytime we pound them on Civil Rights issues, he'll be their response. "You Yankee Dogs want to kill this man for telling your people you were spying on them extalegally. Shame be on you for lecturing us"..

In that case...he will either be killed, or he will be muzzled (threats against family, maybe).

Did you mean by the Chinese? or by us? I think you meant the latter.. Good luck with that. Doing a hit on Chinese soil or making the cover-up a bigger issue. Won't be a coincidence if "sumtin awful were to happen to youse family" right now or EVEN in a year from now.

Wouldn't be hard, actually. Tell him something along the lines of: "If you don't keep your trap shut, your wife/sister/daughter will be kidnapped and gang-raped by fifty men, and it will be recorded and posted on the Internet for you to see." A hit would be even easier...arrange for him to be "accidentally" be killed by a random street thug or a runaway truck.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I have not seen anything that leads me to believe that the government is monitoring Americans. If you have, please post it.

Have you not read the stories? Do you honestly think everyone who uses Verizon is a foreigner?

Please don't pick and choose what you want to respond to while ignoring my other post to SFO.

I didn't see your other post, what's your point?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

This is really a fantastic development though. Can you think of a better litmus test to separate actual, well-intentioned liberals, from the neo-cons they've been suckered into following?

What amazes me is that they insist that the right are the ones trying to turn this into a scandal, even though every single right wing Republican I can think of is defending it.

I am a right wing Republican, and I am not defending it. I commend Snowdon for bringing it out into the open, and I hope that public opinion will be strong enough to put a stop to this nonsense.

I supported the NSA monitoring overseas communications to see who was communicating with terrorists. That is their job. And, that is a far reach from setting up a system to spy on all US citizens and store that information for future use.

I should have been clearer in my post, my apologies. I was referring to the right wing Republicans in Congress, not average people.