Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind the NSA surveillance revelations

[Quantum Windbag]

We don't live in a police state. We live in a republic and our leaders our chosen by a democratic process. The NSA's actions were authorized by the broad spectrum of our government - from life long appointments sitting on the bench, to the elected members of the House who can be tossed out of office every two years. It is inconceivable to me what further authorization you would require.

On the other hand - Snowden's actions were not authorized by my elected representatives, or approved by the courts that were appointed and approved by my elected representatives. On the contrary, Snowden acted in what he thought was best, rather than relying on the sovereign judgement of the American people who selected their government. Is Snowden a sovereign? I think not. Then what authority does he have to set the law aside based solely on his own discretion? Zero. If the facts reported about him are accurate, he is a criminal and deserves a criminal's punishment.

It's amusing to watch the far left liberal side of the aisle line up with the Neo-Con far right side of the aisle.. You're both FULL of it..If you want to live in a totalitarian state, fucking move.. I don't AGREE to shitting all over the US Constitution in the name of security. Some things are STILL sacred to freedom loving Americans.

The only person shitting on the Constitution is you and your terrorist sympathizing ilk. You think you and you alone have the authority to dictate law. The NSA's actions were authorized by all three branches of government, I'm sorry if you don't agree with it.

They were not authorized by all three branches. Obama has repeatedly claimed that Congress was briefed, but Bush claimed the same thing about the water boarding.

something you should really think about, unless you think that one guy telling another guy about something means that the other guy agrees to it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Lawlessness according to whom?



The NSA should clearly always tell the truth. We wouldn't want the terrorists to be misinformed about our intelligence activities.



I just want to know under what authority Snowden determine the government was violating the Constitution - hence granting him authority to violate his oath to not release secret information. Is this just something he thought up himself? Is that how it works? Anyone who has taken an oath to keep government secrets can just - on their own - say "hey, the government's violating the Constitution, so its OK and legal for me to release these secrets" Is that how its supposed to work?

Your response to my observation that NSA is clearly CHARTERED thru legislation historically to AVOID domestic spying and yet even until recently DENIED it -- shows how uncritical your thinking is. They and CONGRESS are propagating that lie to you.. I am a BIG FAN of NSA, but would NEVER have considered that their capabilities would be used against the Homeland. The fact that you believe they can AUTONOMOUSLY lie and be PROTECTED by those exercising oversight means I don't have to take you seriously. You're a danger to yourself and the govt YOU are responsible for..

Perhaps Snowden is smarter than you and recognizes he had ZERO recourse as a whistleblower thru the chain of command. Since CONGRESS is impotent to punish the guilty in ANY of these occurrences and is largely complicit in the crime.. And the claim of "ample oversight" is clearly another lie if whistleblowers have no recourse but to become political prisoners or political refugees..

This NEEDED to be exposed. It is a threat to our system of government and freedom.. When the govt doesn't HAVE to sift thru Millions of garbage cans to get this data, but only needs to lie and intimidate a couple companies and THREATEN them with extra-legal actions -- we've got a problem..

Under what authority did Snowden determine the government was violating the Constitution - hence granting him authority to violate his oath to not release secret information?

The same authority Mark Felt used.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Under what "authority" do you take the 5th Amendment? Under what "authority" do you deny a search of your vehicle? OoopyDoo -- get out of my face with your smokescreened defense of this outrage...

If I were to take an oath of secrecy with the government, how do I determine when it is OK for me to violate that oath? Just whenever I feel like it?

It is never OK for you to violate the oath, there may be times when it is right.

 

[flacaltenn]

Someone please refresh my memory. What's the big leak---people have known about this since Bush. Aren't we just revisiting an old issue ?

There isn't a big leak. The NSA is authorized by Congress and the courts to do exactly what it was 'leaked' they were doing. The only difference is now we - and our enemies - know a few more details.

If Snowden had been caught doing what he did in 1943 he would have been hung and no one would have given a damn except his mother.

Can you show me exactly where Congress authorized it? How about where the courts authorized it?

Didn't think so.

Did you know there is a FISA decision that ruled that something Obama is doing is unconstitutional, but that no one has ever seen it because Obama classified it?

I've gone into circular multi-page discussions with Oopy-Doo before.. He's not here to debate or substantiate his screeds.. He's here to take a bullet for his political heroes that NEVER EVER do anything wrong and are ALWAYS on top of their jobs..

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Edward Snowden: saving us from the United Stasi of America | Daniel Ellsberg | Comment is free | guardian.co.uk

Interesting that Daniel Ellsberg sees this as the most important leak in American history.

The guy that leaked the Pentagon Papers thinks this is a bigger story? And Obamazombies are still defending him?

This is really a fantastic development though. Can you think of a better litmus test to separate actual, well-intentioned liberals, from the neo-cons they've been suckered into following?

What amazes me is that they insist that the right are the ones trying to turn this into a scandal, even though every single right wing Republican I can think of is defending it.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

There isn't a big leak. The NSA is authorized by Congress and the courts to do exactly what it was 'leaked' they were doing. The only difference is now we - and our enemies - know a few more details.

If Snowden had been caught doing what he did in 1943 he would have been hung and no one would have given a damn except his mother.

Can you show me exactly where Congress authorized it? How about where the courts authorized it?

Didn't think so.

Did you know there is a FISA decision that ruled that something Obama is doing is unconstitutional, but that no one has ever seen it because Obama classified it?

I've gone into circular multi-page discussions with Oopy-Doo before.. He's not here to debate or substantiate his screeds.. He's here to take a bullet for his political heroes that NEVER EVER do anything wrong and are ALWAYS on top of their jobs..

I know, but I have to throw in a response occasionally just so he keeps running around in circles.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Under what "authority" do you deny a search of your vehicle?

Is the government never allowed to search a vehicle?

Not without probably cause, no. Of course, they'll be revoking that protection pretty soon too I suspect. Will you be cheering them on?

Probable cause - according to you, right?

 

[flacaltenn]

Is the government never allowed to search a vehicle?

Not without probably cause, no. Of course, they'll be revoking that protection pretty soon too I suspect. Will you be cheering them on?

Probable cause - according to you, right?

That's correct. At that point, we're at a standstill til he gets a judge to sign a warrant. On the other hand, the next ploy is to impound my vehicle until that happens.. And you KNOW who pays for that..

You didn't answer the question about taking the 5th.. didja?

You are truly the Chief of Crash Dummies for the Dem Party aren't you? Denying that your folks are doing no wrong..

 

[Politico]

This guy is obviously full of shit. Let's see how many pages we can get out of it lol.

 

[dblack]

Not without probably cause, no. Of course, they'll be revoking that protection pretty soon too I suspect. Will you be cheering them on?

Probable cause - according to you, right?

That's correct. At that point, we're at a standstill til he gets a judge to sign a warrant. On the other hand, the next ploy is to impound my vehicle until that happens.. And you KNOW who pays for that..

You didn't answer the question about taking the 5th.. didja?

You are truly the Chief of Crash Dummies for the Dem Party aren't you? Denying that your folks are doing no wrong..

I often wonder if partisans realize how weak this approach makes them look? Someone truly confident in their cause is willing to admit mistakes and correct them.

 

[Ravi]

This shit is cracking me up, man.

It's like the UnConservatives woke up about six months ago.

"There's a Department of WHAT!?! Homeland Security? Since when? That sounds like something a NAZI would come up with!!!!!"

Wait til they find out that the government compels employers to give all kinds of information about their employees to the "Nazi" goverment.

 

[Ravi]

Ravi, it's not foreigners. It is you and I. Makes a bit of a difference. Yes I knew that they were monitoring international calls, When i talked to my sons in Germany we would talk about terrorists on purpose just to give NSA some extra work. But I do not expect the Government to have any reason to follow what I do in my private e-mails to my Daughter 200 miles away from me.

I have not seen anything that leads me to believe that the government is monitoring Americans. If you have, please post it.

Have you not read the stories? Do you honestly think everyone who uses Verizon is a foreigner?

Please don't pick and choose what you want to respond to while ignoring my other post to SFO.

 

[dblack]

This shit is cracking me up, man.

It's like the UnConservatives woke up about six months ago.

"There's a Department of WHAT!?! Homeland Security? Since when? That sounds like something a NAZI would come up with!!!!!"

Wait til they find out that the government compels employers to give all kinds of information about their employees to the "Nazi" goverment.

Which is exactly why income tax is so insidious.

 

[Erand7899]

So, unconstitutional, according to whom?

NO ONE has to wait for an Supreme Court case on this. Congress makes laws in ACCORDANCE WITH THE CONSTITUTION.. Youre only point is that it hasn't been RULED unconstitutional in a public court.. By logic and reason, without this LEAK (disclosure), we would have never KNOWN about the lawlessness that exists. In fact, when the phone companies went to PUBLIC COURT to initially BLOCK this grab -- they were sent National Security Letters telling them to immediately DROP the court cases.

Lawlessness according to whom?

Not to mention that last time I checked, there was the gigantic lie on the NSA website that says they "are not involved in domestic surveillance".. You OK with that kind of lie and misrepresentation? That's the country you want to live in?

The NSA should clearly always tell the truth. We wouldn't want the terrorists to be misinformed about our intelligence activities.

WTFuck are you trying to prove here? Trying to out Neo-Con the Neo-Cons?

I just want to know under what authority Snowden determine the government was violating the Constitution - hence granting him authority to violate his oath to not release secret information. Is this just something he thought up himself? Is that how it works? Anyone who has taken an oath to keep government secrets can just - on their own - say "hey, the government's violating the Constitution, so its OK and legal for me to release these secrets" Is that how its supposed to work?

You do realize that authority means permission, don't you? You seem to believe that we all need some "authority" to give us "permission" to do what we believe is right and proper.
Government classifies all sorts of things, from real secrets, to screwups, corruption, and attempts at power grabs. Whistleblowers are the heroes who reveal the screwups, corruption and power grabs. Those who reveal real national security secrets should be prosecuted, and every whistleblower runs the risk of prosecution.

This NSA data mining of all of our electronic information, is patently unconstitutional, has no real impact on national security, and should have been revealed before all the money was spent on it.

Anyone who is comfortable with the government having databases of all of our financial records, health records, court records, E-mails, etc., is a friggin idiot, or a born again slave.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Not without probably cause, no. Of course, they'll be revoking that protection pretty soon too I suspect. Will you be cheering them on?

Probable cause - according to you, right?

That's correct.

So if you're hacking up your passenger with a knife, the officer has to wait for the judge to sign a warrant - or he has to wait for you - the person doing the hacking up - to make the determination there is probable cause - right? That's an interesting understanding of the law, considering that's not at all how the U.S. Courts apply it. I understand that they have no authority though, right?

(Not that you would hack up a passenger with a knife, btw)

At that point, we're at a standstill til he gets a judge to sign a warrant. On the other hand, the next ploy is to impound my vehicle until that happens.. And you KNOW who pays for that..

What if after the judge signs the warrant, FOX News decides the warrant should not have been issued?

 

[Erand7899]

Under what "authority" do you take the 5th Amendment? Under what "authority" do you deny a search of your vehicle? OoopyDoo -- get out of my face with your smokescreened defense of this outrage...

If I were to take an oath of secrecy with the government, how do I determine when it is OK for me to violate that oath? Just, whenever I feel like it?

How about when they murder your neighbor, or when they are stealing from the taxpayers? You determine that it is OK to violate that oath when you believe that the government is doing wrong, and needs to be stopped from continuing to do wrong.

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

NO ONE has to wait for an Supreme Court case on this. Congress makes laws in ACCORDANCE WITH THE CONSTITUTION.. Youre only point is that it hasn't been RULED unconstitutional in a public court.. By logic and reason, without this LEAK (disclosure), we would have never KNOWN about the lawlessness that exists. In fact, when the phone companies went to PUBLIC COURT to initially BLOCK this grab -- they were sent National Security Letters telling them to immediately DROP the court cases.

Lawlessness according to whom?

The NSA should clearly always tell the truth. We wouldn't want the terrorists to be misinformed about our intelligence activities.

WTFuck are you trying to prove here? Trying to out Neo-Con the Neo-Cons?

I just want to know under what authority Snowden determine the government was violating the Constitution - hence granting him authority to violate his oath to not release secret information. Is this just something he thought up himself? Is that how it works? Anyone who has taken an oath to keep government secrets can just - on their own - say "hey, the government's violating the Constitution, so its OK and legal for me to release these secrets" Is that how its supposed to work?

You do realize that authority means permission, don't you? You seem to believe that we all need some "authority" to give us "permission" to do what we believe is right and proper.
Government classifies all sorts of things, from real secrets, to screwups, corruption, and attempts at power grabs. Whistleblowers are the heroes who reveal the screwups, corruption and power grabs. Those who reveal real national security secrets should be prosecuted, and every whistleblower runs the risk of prosecution.

This NSA data mining of all of our electronic information, is patently unconstitutional, has no real impact on national security, and should have been revealed before all the money was spent on it.

Anyone who is comfortable with the government having databases of all of our financial records, health records, court records, E-mails, etc., is a friggin idiot, or a born again slave.

So the law doesn't matter as long as what we are doing feels right?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Lawlessness according to whom?

The NSA should clearly always tell the truth. We wouldn't want the terrorists to be misinformed about our intelligence activities.



I just want to know under what authority Snowden determine the government was violating the Constitution - hence granting him authority to violate his oath to not release secret information. Is this just something he thought up himself? Is that how it works? Anyone who has taken an oath to keep government secrets can just - on their own - say "hey, the government's violating the Constitution, so its OK and legal for me to release these secrets" Is that how its supposed to work?

You do realize that authority means permission, don't you? You seem to believe that we all need some "authority" to give us "permission" to do what we believe is right and proper.
Government classifies all sorts of things, from real secrets, to screwups, corruption, and attempts at power grabs. Whistleblowers are the heroes who reveal the screwups, corruption and power grabs. Those who reveal real national security secrets should be prosecuted, and every whistleblower runs the risk of prosecution.

This NSA data mining of all of our electronic information, is patently unconstitutional, has no real impact on national security, and should have been revealed before all the money was spent on it.

Anyone who is comfortable with the government having databases of all of our financial records, health records, court records, E-mails, etc., is a friggin idiot, or a born again slave.

So the law doesn't matter as long as what we are doing feels right?

Ask the government. They're the ones breaking the law.

 

[LadyGunSlinger]

You do realize that authority means permission, don't you? You seem to believe that we all need some "authority" to give us "permission" to do what we believe is right and proper.
Government classifies all sorts of things, from real secrets, to screwups, corruption, and attempts at power grabs. Whistleblowers are the heroes who reveal the screwups, corruption and power grabs. Those who reveal real national security secrets should be prosecuted, and every whistleblower runs the risk of prosecution.

This NSA data mining of all of our electronic information, is patently unconstitutional, has no real impact on national security, and should have been revealed before all the money was spent on it.

Anyone who is comfortable with the government having databases of all of our financial records, health records, court records, E-mails, etc., is a friggin idiot, or a born again slave.

So the law doesn't matter as long as what we are doing feels right?

Ask the government. They're the ones breaking the law.

QFT!!!!

 

[OohPooPahDoo]

Under what "authority" do you take the 5th Amendment? Under what "authority" do you deny a search of your vehicle? OoopyDoo -- get out of my face with your smokescreened defense of this outrage...

If I were to take an oath of secrecy with the government, how do I determine when it is OK for me to violate that oath? Just, whenever I feel like it?

How about when they murder your neighbor,

The U.S. Government murdered Snowden's neighbor?

or when they are stealing from the taxpayers?

Stealing from the taxpayers according to whom?

You determine that it is OK to violate that oath when you believe that the government is doing wrong, and needs to be stopped from continuing to do wrong.

What's the point of taking the oath if I can just violate it whenever I feel its OK to?