Evangelicals and Trump

[Correll]

2. That you can divide a group against itself and into smaller groups is a powerful political weapon.

Are you giving liberals ....

I am citing your ability to spread division with Identity Politics. I was clear about that. You can address it, or not. You will not mischaracterize it and then ask me to defend your made up shit.

 

[Correll]

My problem is YOUR agenda to marginalize my group and culture.

I have no such agenda. I Celebrate Christmas and say MERRY CHRISTMAS when it ‘‘tis the season to be jolly FA LA LA LA - LA LA LA LAAAAAAA

You are a jerk but have a merry CHRISTmas anyway.

Your behavior in this thread, says otherwise.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

I am citing your ability to spread division with Identity Politics.

I cited a black preacher and a white Baptist church goer with both articulating a thoughtful contradiction to your Christian Nation crusade. You cannot muster a response to the substance of their ‘majority’ Christian view that repeating your Christian Nation falsehood is not good for secular civility or religion.

How are they pushing identity politics?

It is absolutely necessary to identify who exactly it is spreading your Christian Nation lie. Black Evangelicals aren’t spreading it.

That you get all butt hurt when identifying the culprit by race because that is pertinent, indicates to me you think white evangelicals cannot be criticized because they are Christian and somehow always perfect and truthful.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

3. When you attack Christians for doing the same behavior that you accept from everyone else, you are persecuting Christians.

you are such a liar. You know I’m ‘attacking’ if you must call it that, a specific lie being spread by a minority of Christians. Only the Christians that are spreading the lie. No other group is spreading the lie and provocation telling me I live in a Christian Nation.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Your behavior in this thread, says otherwise.

Point it out - liar. And then we can discuss

Were you wounded severely or lost a loved one or had your property ransacked and destroyed by the barbaric Infidel heathen non-Christian invaders in the Great War on Christmas. Didn’t know you were a casualty in that tragic needless cruel war. I now understand your emotional distress and that explains the fear and hatred that eats away at your soul. Hope you recover soon and allow Jesus Christ to revive the love and compassion that existed in your soul before you were caught up in the Great War on Christmas as narrated by Bill O’Riley on FOX News.. where it has been confirmed that Jesus and his father in heaven are card carrying Republicans and support Trump.

Perhaps this will make you feel better:

Opinion: There has never been a war on Christmas
Tom Klarr Staff Reporter. Watch out! Take Cover! Head for your basement exercise room turned self-made bunker because there is a war going on right here in America. No, the Islamic State has not invaded the homeland. This war is far more sinister with plans to destroy the very fabric of this once-great, now just okay, nation. The lefty-liberals and their monstrous “political correctness police” are waging a “War on Christmas” if you believe the talking heads of the Christian conservative base.
First and foremost in my systematic dismantling of their argument, I must debunk easily accepted myths. For starters: Jesus was likely not born on Dec. 25.While the bible offers no clear indication of the exact date, some scholars believe a spring birth was more likely due to the mention of shepherds keeping watch over their flock at night in 2ndLuke Verse 8. Second: Christmas did not originate as a pagan holiday. While the Romans celebrated the solstice with a weeklong holiday called Saturnalia, Christians co-opted the end of the celebration, Dec. 25, to convert more Roman pagans. However, in a Slate article written by Andrew Santella, a scholarly theory of an ancient Jewish tradition dating a prophet’s death on the same day of his conception lends credence to the origin of Christmas in December.
Now that we all understand Christmas has an entirely arbitrary date, we must learn Christmas is not truly under attack. Christmas first mounted a defense on Dec. 7, 2004, whenThe O’Reilly Factor ran a segment called “Christmas Under Siege”. Bill O’Reilly is the holiday’s greatest defender. In that same segment he claims, “Americans will lose their country if they don’t begin to take action. Any assault on Judeo-Christian philosophy should be fought.” He publicly called American Christians to take up arms against anyone who seeks to undermine the spirit of Christmas. This is a very strong defense strategy for a holiday that seems to be doing pretty well for itself.
Who or what is mounting an assault that needs such stout retaliation from the Christian right? The simple answer is liberals and corporate America catering to the multitude of cultures deeply rooted on home soil. In 2004, O’Reilly took issue with Macy’s no longer greeting shoppers with “Merry Christmas.” In 2005, Wal-Mart received flak from Catholics for carefully avoiding the word Christmas in their advertising campaigns. Retailers including The Home Depot, Lowes, Gap and Best Buy have all come under fire in recent years by the misguided, bile spewing rhetoric of right wing hotheads.
The most recent and, quite frankly, unbelievably stupid controversy the Rupert Murdoch puppets have lost the plot over is Starbucks new holiday red cup for 2015. A quick google search will reveal that, contrary to the belief of the Christian right, Starbucks has never had holiday cups directly using the word Christmas. In fact, most of the designs before the plain red one of this year have centered on winter celebrations.
The War on Christmas is fabricated by conservative news outlets to incite fear and anger over practices of inclusion and respect of other beliefs and cultures. The liberal “gestapo” will not enter your home to remove the nativity scene and the star from your “holiday tree.” So this holiday season instead of forwarding misinformed chain e-mails to your nephews in college to “teach them a lesson about the true meaning of Christmas,” sit down by a fire with hot chocolate and ask your family how they are doing or what plans they have for the new year. Christmas is a time for respect and appreciation of the good things in life. Do not degrade that sentiment with your own hate of others. For myself, Christmas is a month of rampant consumerism and overconsumption and I’m quite happy with that.

Have yourself a cup of hot chocolate and some CHRISTmas cookies beside you CHRISTmas tree on Jesus birthday.,

 

[Correll]

I am citing your ability to spread division with Identity Politics.

I cited a black preacher and a white Baptist church goer with both articulating a thoughtful contradiction to your Christian Nation crusade. You cannot muster a response to the substance of their ‘majority’ Christian view that repeating your Christian Nation falsehood is not good for secular civility or religion.

No, it is not. But if you want to discuss their point that my position is "not good" then make their point yourself and we will discuss it. Them disagreeing with me, and being Christian or white or black, is not relevant.

How are they pushing identity politics?

They weren't. You are. When you make it all about their race, instead of their ideas. You want to discuss their ideas, sure fine, ,lets do it. You want me to defer to them, because of their race, fuck no.


You were all about the fact that they disagreed with me, as though the very fact that they disagreed with me, refuted my position.

It does not. My position is not built on majority agreement with my view.


I have explained this many times. You seem to be willfully not understanding it, to avoid having to address it.

It is absolutely necessary to identify who exactly it is spreading your Christian Nation lie. Black Evangelicals aren’t spreading it.

It is my opinion. YOu calling it a "lie"is just you being an ass and/or you playing rhetorical propaganda games. Either way, knock that shit off.

That you get all butt hurt when identifying the culprit by race because that is pertinent, indicates to me you think white evangelicals cannot be criticized because they are Christian and somehow always perfect and truthful.

Bullshit. I made a point that is seemed shady to me the way you kept making long lists of smears against your enemies, and that you seemed to be conflating white Christians and White Nationalists, two very different groups, with very little overlap, because one is a tiny, tiny fringe.


THe rest of your post is strawmen. You can go play with your strawmen yourself. THey have nothing to do with me.

 

[Correll]

3. When you attack Christians for doing the same behavior that you accept from everyone else, you are persecuting Christians.

you are such a liar. You know I’m ‘attacking’ if you must call it that, a specific lie being spread by a minority of Christians. Only the Christians that are spreading the lie. No other group is spreading the lie and provocation telling me I live in a Christian Nation.

This entire thread's op, which you are supporting, is that there is something inherently wrong in Evangelical Christians supporting President Trump, because he is not "one of them".

Your obsession with whether or not America was "Founded as a Christian Nation" was offered in SUPPORT of that position, so that you could have an excuse to attack Evangelical Christians, instead of directly supporting the OP, which was stupid and wrong and obviously anti-Christian bigotry.

The crux of your argument is a game of semantics, where you try to gin up a controversy over definitions of the words, instead of any real...anything real beyond word games.


And now, that I addressed it seriously, now you are reduced to stonewalling and gaslighting to maintain your final line of defense.


Pretty stand debate with a liberal, for me.

 

[Correll]

Your behavior in this thread, says otherwise.

Point it out - liar. And then we can discuss

Were you wounded severely or lost a loved one or had your property ransacked and destroyed by the barbaric Infidel heathen non-Christian invaders in the Great War on Christmas. Didn’t know you were a casualty in that tragic needless cruel war. I now understand your emotional distress and that explains the fear and hatred that eats away at your soul. Hope you recover soon and allow Jesus Christ to revive the love and compassion that existed in your soul before you were caught up in the Great War on Christmas as narrated by Bill O’Riley on FOX News.. where it has been confirmed that Jesus and his father in heaven are card carrying Republicans and support Trump.

Perhaps this will make you feel better:

Opinion: There has never been a war on Christmas
Tom Klarr Staff Reporter. Watch out! Take Cover! Head for your basement exercise room turned self-made bunker because there is a war going on right here in America. No, the Islamic State has not invaded the homeland. This war is far more sinister with plans to destroy the very fabric of this once-great, now just okay, nation. The lefty-liberals and their monstrous “political correctness police” are waging a “War on Christmas” if you believe the talking heads of the Christian conservative base.
First and foremost in my systematic dismantling of their argument, I must debunk easily accepted myths. For starters: Jesus was likely not born on Dec. 25.While the bible offers no clear indication of the exact date, some scholars believe a spring birth was more likely due to the mention of shepherds keeping watch over their flock at night in 2ndLuke Verse 8. Second: Christmas did not originate as a pagan holiday. While the Romans celebrated the solstice with a weeklong holiday called Saturnalia, Christians co-opted the end of the celebration, Dec. 25, to convert more Roman pagans. However, in a Slate article written by Andrew Santella, a scholarly theory of an ancient Jewish tradition dating a prophet’s death on the same day of his conception lends credence to the origin of Christmas in December.
Now that we all understand Christmas has an entirely arbitrary date, we must learn Christmas is not truly under attack. Christmas first mounted a defense on Dec. 7, 2004, whenThe O’Reilly Factor ran a segment called “Christmas Under Siege”. Bill O’Reilly is the holiday’s greatest defender. In that same segment he claims, “Americans will lose their country if they don’t begin to take action. Any assault on Judeo-Christian philosophy should be fought.” He publicly called American Christians to take up arms against anyone who seeks to undermine the spirit of Christmas. This is a very strong defense strategy for a holiday that seems to be doing pretty well for itself.
Who or what is mounting an assault that needs such stout retaliation from the Christian right? The simple answer is liberals and corporate America catering to the multitude of cultures deeply rooted on home soil. In 2004, O’Reilly took issue with Macy’s no longer greeting shoppers with “Merry Christmas.” In 2005, Wal-Mart received flak from Catholics for carefully avoiding the word Christmas in their advertising campaigns. Retailers including The Home Depot, Lowes, Gap and Best Buy have all come under fire in recent years by the misguided, bile spewing rhetoric of right wing hotheads.
The most recent and, quite frankly, unbelievably stupid controversy the Rupert Murdoch puppets have lost the plot over is Starbucks new holiday red cup for 2015. A quick google search will reveal that, contrary to the belief of the Christian right, Starbucks has never had holiday cups directly using the word Christmas. In fact, most of the designs before the plain red one of this year have centered on winter celebrations.
The War on Christmas is fabricated by conservative news outlets to incite fear and anger over practices of inclusion and respect of other beliefs and cultures. The liberal “gestapo” will not enter your home to remove the nativity scene and the star from your “holiday tree.” So this holiday season instead of forwarding misinformed chain e-mails to your nephews in college to “teach them a lesson about the true meaning of Christmas,” sit down by a fire with hot chocolate and ask your family how they are doing or what plans they have for the new year. Christmas is a time for respect and appreciation of the good things in life. Do not degrade that sentiment with your own hate of others. For myself, Christmas is a month of rampant consumerism and overconsumption and I’m quite happy with that.

Have yourself a cup of hot chocolate and some CHRISTmas cookies beside you CHRISTmas tree on Jesus birthday.,

Your hysterical overreaction is noted.

My point stands.

We have been tolerant of others for generations.

This thread, is about YOUR side attacking US, for doing normal political activity, while being NOT you.


That is YOU not being tolerate of US.


Thus proving that Multiculturalism was never about us all living together in tolerance and harmony,


but about you people marginalizing and suppressing US.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

Them disagreeing with me, and being Christian or white or black, is not relevant.

The fact that a white evangelical Christian minority and you are pushing the same bold-faced Christian Nation lie is extremely important. And the fact that most Christians including black Christians are not buying your “Christianity dominates the American Nation” culture war offensive is extremely relevant.

Why is Christian NATION rabble rousing limited to a small minority of Christians and you?

Your argument tries to rely on irrelevant polls or sociological guesses that pits Christianity as the dominant religion of America from 1787 to the present day against every other religion and non-religion in America.

But your argument counts every imagined Christian that ever lived in America even though roughly 4/5 of that Christian community either disagree with your Christian Nation fallacies or could care less about it. To them, there is no need reason to identify their religion as the dominant and dominating religion in America.

So being dishonest as you are you must list black church members to your cause to run up the numbers. You ridiculously run up your Christian Nation crusade by counting all Christians who are also who wouid consider you a Right wing whacko Trumphumper and don’t want America to be identified as a Christian Nation in reference to Christianity being the dominant religion.

And you cannot see the absurdity when you say “Them disagreeing with me, and being Christian or white or black, is not relevant.” When your argument in favor of identifying America as a Christian dominated Nation depends on the majority of Americans being Christians.

The reality is and of course you know the truth about it is that the vast number of Christian Americans are not buying the crap you are selling.

You argunent right now is a joke since it is nothing more than - I’m a Christian and I am right because I a Christian say so”

It is also RELEVANT to point out that the DOMINANT CULTURE you and ding are defending is also a white and male Dominant culture.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

This thread, is about YOUR side attacking US, for doing normal political activity, while being NOT you.

This thread is about your lies. I have encouraged liars like you to be fully politically active in the political arena. And specifically all you TrumpOroids who have merged white evangelical Christianity and Trumpism Into a political force to be reckoned with.

I can shred Trump’s lack of morality and lack of toleration and respect for anyone who does not agree with him or worship him.

I would be worried if Trumpism and his brand of hate and ignorance had managed to infect more than a third of Americans. But it’s now apparent that most Americans including most Christians reject the “tolerance” that Trump the huckster is selling.

22 Days from now history will record Trump as a broken incompetent loser and that will finally put an end to this sad tragic four years. Who knows what white evangelical Christians will demand of me when they don’t have a Trump in such a high position of power.

But it’s guaranteed they won’t be convincing very many outside their flock that America was founded as a Christian Nation.

Trump can properly be Politically condemned and ridiculed and if you want to take that as an assauit on the Dominant Christian culture you are a fool.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

The crux of your argument is a game of semantics, where you try to gin up a controversy over definitions of the words,

Definition of what words?


Found 3 : to establish (something) often with provision for future maintenance found an institution.

Founder -One who establishes something or formulates the basis for something.


Christian - This is one who defines being a Christian -
Our president and my church: An evangelical Christian on the president’s damage to his faith community
By JOHN FEA
NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
OCT 12, 2020

This is an election between one man who believes that the president should be a steward of democracy and another man who is a racist, nativist and narcissist willing to undermine democracy with almost every word he speaks.​

And most white evangelicals, whether they love Trump or held their noses and voted for him, are complicit. I know that statement will anger a lot of the Christians in my evangelical tribe, but I am also angry. How long will evangelicals continue to support — either directly or indirectly through their silence — this immoral president? In his Second Inaugural Address, Abraham Lincoln preached national unity. He called us to “bind up the nation’s wounds” and “achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace.” But let us remember that Lincoln delivered his address after the Union victory over the slave-holding Confederacy was all but secured.​

The cancer at the heart of the republic and evangelical Christianity must be cut out. When Trump is gone, I hope and pray I will be ready to participate in the healing process.​

Fea is Distinguished Professor of American History at Messiah University in Mechanicsburg, Pa. Our president and my church: An evangelical Christian on the president’s damage to his faith community​

So what semantics issue is going on around here?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

My position is not built on majority agreement with my view.

I know. It’s based on the majority of the population being Christian. An argument That is made preposterous based on the fact that the majority size of the population has nothing to do as to why and how the Constitution was written

 

[NotfooledbyW]

you seemed to be conflating white Christians and White Nationalists two very different groups, with very little overlap,

I have directed your attention to white Christian nationalists who promote as historical fact, not just opinion, that America was founded as a Christian Nation. I have not injected white nationalists and their racism into this discussion. That’s all you.

I don’t associate today’s white Christian nationalists with racism in any way.

Race is mentioned only in reference to historical fact that colonial America Christianity was white, Protestant and male dominated. That is a fact that you can not deny.

 

[NotfooledbyW]

#854 reply to #832

1. It is not any "Authority" we have the makes our definition be the one that is true, but the strength of the supporting arguments.


2. In the past, I've seen demographic trends on the percentages of self identified Christians in the US. The numbers until recently, if I recall correctly were all very high. A group that is vastly majority something can be defined as that group.

3. My position is not that America was one denomination. Thus any differences between individual beliefs is irrelevant.

Why do you keep avoiding the Madison Question?

 

[NotfooledbyW]

2. In the past, I've seen demographic trends on the percentages of self identified Christians in the US.

You do admit that in the year of our Lord 1787 the dominant religion in the United States was white Protestant Christian. That is the religion of all white ethnicity that you say gets to set America’s religious identity as founded as a Christian nation. That’s the demographic reality - There is no dispute about it. So since that is your baseline you need to carry Demographic reality forward to the present day.

Where are White Protestant Christians in the religious market place of today?

​

Among the major findings:

1. White Christians now account for fewer than half of the public. Today, only 43% of Americans identify as white and Christian, and only 30% as white and Protestant. In 1976, roughly eight in ten (81%) Americans identified as white and identified with a Christian denomination, and a majority (55%) were white Protestants.
2. White evangelical Protestants are in decline—along with white mainline Protestants and white Catholics. White evangelical Protestants were once thought to be bucking a longer trend, but over the past decade their numbers have dropped substantially. Fewer than one in five (17%) Americans are white evangelical Protestant, but they accounted for nearly one-quarter (23%) in 2006. Over the same period, white Catholics dropped five percentage points from 16% to 11%, as have white mainline Protestants, from 18% to 13%.

So by your insistence that America was founded based on a white Protestant majority in 1787 you have locked yourself in to that definition of Christian.

With that your argument must be that America is no longer a Christian nation based upon a majority of self identified white Christian Protestants at only 30% of the population.

I’m reminded that a prominent Christian NATIONALIST Mr Rockwell holds the position I agree with that America is not a Christian Nation anymore.

So if America is not a Christian Nation any more, that makes the case that it never was.

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

The Left's obsession with the Evangelicals is really weird

 

[BreezeWood]

The Left's obsession with the Evangelicals is really weird

.
you must be one of them - try revulsion ...

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

The Left's obsession with the Evangelicals is really weird

.
you must be one of them - try revulsion ...

I's not a Christian, what are the Evangelicals doing that is "revulsive"

 

[BreezeWood]

The Left's obsession with the Evangelicals is really weird

.
you must be one of them - try revulsion ...

I's not a Christian, what are the Evangelicals doing that is "revulsive"

.

The Left's obsession with the Evangelicals is really weird

I's not a Christian, what are the Evangelicals doing that is "revulsive"

.
just a suggestion christian, your call give a clue you have for their "obsession" -

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

The Left's obsession with the Evangelicals is really weird

.
you must be one of them - try revulsion ...

I's not a Christian, what are the Evangelicals doing that is "revulsive"

.

The Left's obsession with the Evangelicals is really weird

I's not a Christian, what are the Evangelicals doing that is "revulsive"

.
just a suggestion christian, your call give a clue you have for their "obsession" -

maybe you need a translator lol