Even If Classified Documents Were Recovered In Trump Raid, It Looks Like Chances Of Conviction Are Quite Slim

[Independent thinker]

But they can’t prove they knew they were deleting work emails because her lawyer had already had gone through them and submitted them to State Dept.

Why were Hillary and the left so upset that Trump supposedly asked Russia for help in finding the deleted emails if there was nothing to be found with them anyway?

 

[Orangecat]

I listen to the experts. Because they're experts.

Some of us prefer to evaluate information and come to our own conclusions. “Experts” are often used to manipulate useful idiots.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

"The country deserves a thorough and immediate explanation of what led to the events of Monday," McConnell said in a statement. "Attorney General Garland and the Department of Justice should already have provided answers to the American people and must do so immediately."

Be careful what you wish for!
With respect to what was bound to happen, particularly after Garland's statement on Thursday, many Republicans are acting like fools.
ABC reports, "Congressional Republicans were quick to pan Merrick Garland's Thursday remarks on the FBI search of Donald Trump's Mar-a-Lago -- calling the attorney general's comments insufficient and insisting the Justice Department release more information behind the unprecedented raid even as Garland said he wants the search warrant unsealed.
"But GOP lawmakers said the Justice Department's motion to unseal parts of the warrant would not cut it, demanding that more information behind the search's genesis was needed given the gravity of the operation at a former president's home."

The GOP lawmakers got their wish. Their comments are laughable now.

 

[Sandy Shanks]

Be careful what you wish for!

The Senate Intelligence Committee on Tuesday reaffirmed its support for the U.S. intelligence community’s conclusion that the Russian government interfered in the 2016 presidential election with the goal of putting Donald Trump in the Oval Office.https://www.politico.com/news/2020/...rms-russia-aimed-to-help-trump-in-2016-198171

The seized documents were part of an inquiry into violation of the Espionage Act and two other laws.​

The Times reports, "A list of documents removed from former President Donald J. Trump’s Florida residence, Mar-a-Lago, includes materials marked as top secret and meant to be viewed only in secure government facilities, according to a copy of the warrant obtained by The New York Times.

"Federal agents who executed the warrant did so to investigate potential crimes associated with violations of the Espionage Act, which outlaws the unauthorized retention of national security information that could harm the United States or aid a foreign adversary; a federal law that makes it a crime to destroy or conceal a document to obstruct a government investigation; and another statute associated with unlawful removal of government materials.

"Of the three criminal laws cited in the search warrant, one stood out as raising new questions: Section 1519 of Title 18 of the United States Code. Section 1519 is an obstruction law. It applies to document crimes undertaken “with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter” within the jurisdiction of federal departments or agencies. That raises the question: What do investigators suspect that Trump, by hoarding the documents, was trying to impede?"

A better question is, what was Trump going to do with the set of documents marked as “TS/SCI documents,” which refers to “top secret/sensitive compartmented information?”

 

[Foxfyre]

You spelled DENIED incorrectly.
Team trump LIED, and they declined them access to those additional boxes.
It took an informant to tell the FBI where to look for the boxes they were denied (LIED about) in June

FFS.
team trump LIED, there were additional documents.
In June, they didn't have a warrant, they went in nicely and ASKED nicely.
The FBI was LIED to.
The asked if there were ANY other boxes, team trump LIED.
The FBI just couldn't go look for them.
And team trump denied that there was additional boxes.

No matter how many times you repeat these assigned talking points, you still do not know what happened in June and it is irresponsible to pretend you do. Numerous witnesses have described the June event and there is ZERO evidence supporting your talking points and a lot of witnesses who contradict your talking points.

 

[Foxfyre]

If they had a warrant, it would have been ALL over the same RW news outlets.
The FBI went in nicely, and were lied to.
Thus denied access to those additional boxes that were there in JUNE.
You think those 20+ boxes got there later (probably planted)

How about the additional 20+ boxes they got through the warrant.
You know, the boxes that the FBI was LIED to about.

They were not lied to. They were given FULL ACCESS to those boxes and could have taken them at that time if they wanted them. They did not want them but suggested in case they were needed in the future, an extra lock should be put on the storage room door. That was done

You are obviously not willing to read anything I've written on this so I won't be responding to you further. It gets really really boring having you say the same things over and over and over and it just doesn't make them any truer.

 

[Care4all]

link? Just asking.

FBI Director Admits Hillary Clinton Emails Were Not Properly Marked Classified

Hillary Clinton's political and media critics jumped all over a key portion of FBI Director James Comey's lengthy statement on the investigation into email practices at the State Department in which Comey said that a “very small number” of emails sent or received by Secretary Clinton “bore...

www.mediaite.com

 

[MinTrut]

In the warrant (LINK), the laws allegedly broken are included....

"All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or
other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 2071 , or 1519

Here are links to the three statutes...

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy

www.law.cornell.edu

I am not a lawyer, but my read is that it will difficult to prove violation of these statutes, even if classified material was actually seized, for the reasoning I include below (my opinions, not cut and pasted or researched anywhere).

You Biden supporters and/or Trump haters can let me know why I am wrong.

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information​

Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation...

This statute requires that the person not only be in possession of the material, but that they person believes the material is to be used for injury to the US. No one, even Trump haters with a brain, would think that Trump was going to use the material to cause damage to the United States. What was Trump planning to do, sell nuclear secrets to Kim Jong Un in exchange for billions of dollars? Release the rcords to the NYT to damage the reputation of the US? Doesn't seem credible.

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally​

Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so

This statute requires willful intent. So if Team Trump did not know there was classified material in the boxes, it would appear to be a successful defense against any relevant charge. Also, if there was no concealment or attempt to destroy, and Team Trump had told the FBI to come and get the material anytime it wanted to, like Trump has posted on Truth Social, then there would be no violation...
View attachment 681946

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy​

Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter

This statute also requires intent. It's relevance is probably that it has been reported that Trump's lawyer signed a statement saying there was no classified material at Mar-A-Lago in June....

Trump's lawyer told the DOJ that ALL classified docs were returned

One of the lawyers working for Former President Donald Trump signed a written statement in June confirming that all classified material had been returned to the government.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If that signed statement was believed to be true at the time, there is no violation of this statute.

Opinions?

He'll be fine, and should be elcted president again in 2024.

It's another deranged Democrat witch hunt.

 

[2aguy]

Obama’s records are in custody of the National Archives.

Where they should be.

Trump really treats you like morons.

And this is where you are sooo wrong...........we were told lots of things by the media and the government over the last 6 years to smear and discredit Trump.....only to find out they were smears and lies by the press working to help the democrats....

The most recent....

1st, the lie.....

More than 50 former senior intelligence officials have signed on to a letteroutlining their belief that the recent disclosure of emails allegedly belonging to Joe Biden’s son “has all the classic earmarks of a Russian information operation.”

Hunter Biden story is Russian disinfo, dozens of former intel officials say

More than 50 former intelligence officials signed a letter casting doubt on the provenance of a New York Post story on the former vice president's son.

www.politico.com

Then, when the lie was no longer helpful or needed...

The Daily Mail and The Washington Post both say they have authenticated at least some material contained in the laptop, upon which they have based their stories (POLITICO has not undergone the process to authenticate the laptop, but reporter BEN SCHRECKINGER has confirmed the authenticity of some emails on it.)

The Holy War over Hunter Biden’s laptop

www.politico.com

The Washington Post and the lie...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/03/27/mainstream-media-disinformation-hunter-biden/

The Washington post after it wasn't necessary to push the lie anymore....

Washington Post finally admits Hunter Biden's laptop is real

The Washington Post revealed it had cyber forensics experts validate material from Hunter Biden's abandoned laptop, after months of publishing articles suggesting it could be Russian disinformation.

www.dailymail.co.uk

The New York times......and the lie....

new york times hunter biden laptop story is disinformation


Then, the truth......after it wasn't necessary to protect biden...

the-times-finally-admits-hunter-bidens-laptop-is-real


So the National Archive trying to protect obama isn't going to sell here.........try selling it to biden voters....

 

[Jim H - VA USA]

Not intended to deceive? So if you don't intend to break the law, it's okay?

It's what he said, and I use in the premise of this thread to defend Trump, not that my help is needed.

Why don't they apply that standard to Donald J. Trump?

Seems to me that they would have to, since that's what most of the statutes in the warrant state.

We really need to see the affidavit to explain things, but that's not going to happen from what I see.

 

[BWK]

In the warrant (LINK), the laws allegedly broken are included....

"All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or
other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 2071 , or 1519

Here are links to the three statutes...

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy

www.law.cornell.edu

I am not a lawyer, but my read is that it will difficult to prove violation of these statutes, even if classified material was actually seized, for the reasoning I include below (my opinions, not cut and pasted or researched anywhere).

You Biden supporters and/or Trump haters can let me know why I am wrong.

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information​

Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation...

This statute requires that the person not only be in possession of the material, but that they person believes the material is to be used for injury to the US. No one, even Trump haters with a brain, would think that Trump was going to use the material to cause damage to the United States. What was Trump planning to do, sell nuclear secrets to Kim Jong Un in exchange for billions of dollars? Release the rcords to the NYT to damage the reputation of the US? Doesn't seem credible.

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally​

Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so

This statute requires willful intent. So if Team Trump did not know there was classified material in the boxes, it would appear to be a successful defense against any relevant charge. Also, if there was no concealment or attempt to destroy, and Team Trump had told the FBI to come and get the material anytime it wanted to, like Trump has posted on Truth Social, then there would be no violation...
View attachment 681946

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy​

Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter

This statute also requires intent. It's relevance is probably that it has been reported that Trump's lawyer signed a statement saying there was no classified material at Mar-A-Lago in June....

Trump's lawyer told the DOJ that ALL classified docs were returned

One of the lawyers working for Former President Donald Trump signed a written statement in June confirming that all classified material had been returned to the government.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If that signed statement was believed to be true at the time, there is no violation of this statute.

Opinions?

8 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally​

Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so

This statute requires willful intent. So if Team Trump did not know there was classified material in the boxes, it would appear to be a successful defense against any relevant charge. Also, if there was no concealment or attempt to destroy, and Team Trump had told the FBI to come and get the material anytime it wanted to, like Trump has posted on Truth Social, then there would be no violation...

Ignorance is no defense.

You need to get the take from the experts. You are throwing shit up against the wall;

​

 

[BWK]

It's what he said, and I use in the premise of this thread to defend Trump, not that my help is needed.


Seems to me that they would have to, since that's what most of the statutes in the warrant state.

We really need to see the affidavit to explain things, but that's not going to happen from what I see.

What Trump said, was he declassified documents. He also said the FBI planted documents. Trump is his own worst enemy, because he puts his foot in his mouth. Which story is true, or are both stories lies?

 

[MagicMike]

Those present at that time say that he did. And said ANYTHING else they wanted just ask and it would be provided immediately. You are libeling a person here when you have zero first hand knowledge of what happened in June. TDS is so strong in the woke and hate filled left that it is scary sometimes.

Your TWS (Trump Worship Syndrome) is showing.

 

[MagicMike]

You are a liar, dude.

I know you are but what am I?

 

[2aguy]

In the warrant (LINK), the laws allegedly broken are included....

"All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or
other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 2071 , or 1519

Here are links to the three statutes...

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy

www.law.cornell.edu

I am not a lawyer, but my read is that it will difficult to prove violation of these statutes, even if classified material was actually seized, for the reasoning I include below (my opinions, not cut and pasted or researched anywhere).

You Biden supporters and/or Trump haters can let me know why I am wrong.

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information​

Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation...

This statute requires that the person not only be in possession of the material, but that they person believes the material is to be used for injury to the US. No one, even Trump haters with a brain, would think that Trump was going to use the material to cause damage to the United States. What was Trump planning to do, sell nuclear secrets to Kim Jong Un in exchange for billions of dollars? Release the rcords to the NYT to damage the reputation of the US? Doesn't seem credible.

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally​

Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so

This statute requires willful intent. So if Team Trump did not know there was classified material in the boxes, it would appear to be a successful defense against any relevant charge. Also, if there was no concealment or attempt to destroy, and Team Trump had told the FBI to come and get the material anytime it wanted to, like Trump has posted on Truth Social, then there would be no violation...
View attachment 681946

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy​

Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter

This statute also requires intent. It's relevance is probably that it has been reported that Trump's lawyer signed a statement saying there was no classified material at Mar-A-Lago in June....

Trump's lawyer told the DOJ that ALL classified docs were returned

One of the lawyers working for Former President Donald Trump signed a written statement in June confirming that all classified material had been returned to the government.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If that signed statement was believed to be true at the time, there is no violation of this statute.

Opinions?

No classified documents at Trump home, and the DOJ knew it.....sent in the stasi thugs anyway...

Damning political documents that make the Obama administration look bad are declassified—and then, the feds knock down the door at Mar-a-Lago. And now, we have memos showing that certain documents were either declassified or that none were present at Trump’s home. It looks like this circus just added another tent.

Did the Justice Department Already Know That No Classified Docs Were at Mar-a-Lago?

townhall.com

 

[Care4all]

Clearly? Were you there? Did you see it? Are you trusting a government that has lied and lied and lied again, especially about Trump, to tell the truth here? Maybe they are. Maybe they aren't.

For damn sure had the FBI wanted any of the documents in June they could have asked for them. And it would have been willingly handed to them or they could have picked them up themselves as they had full access to that storage room. If they had asked for anything later it would have been turned over. Nothing they asked for was denied them.

You clearly can't know or say what was clearly marked on anything.

But it wasn't until the informant, told them that trump did NOT turn them all over, which was recently, and well after the June subpoena visit by the FBI, and one of the reasons they were able to, and did, go for a search warrant this time, instead of another subpoena....

 

[MagicMike]

No classified documents at Trump home, and the DOJ knew it.....sent in the stasi thugs anyway...

Damning political documents that make the Obama administration look bad are declassified—and then, the feds knock down the door at Mar-a-Lago. And now, we have memos showing that certain documents were either declassified or that none were present at Trump’s home. It looks like this circus just added another tent.

Did the Justice Department Already Know That No Classified Docs Were at Mar-a-Lago?

townhall.com

"This defense will fail because the three laws that they selected to put on the search warrant don't require that the documents be classified," McQuade said to guest host Cori Coffin. "I think until we saw that unsealed search warrant on Friday, we expected that they would charge the statute that was used for General David Petraeus and [former NSA adviser] Sandy Berger, which does require the mishandling of classified information. Instead, they require only one charge of government records, another charge related to national defense, and another concealment of records when the government comes calling for them."

Trump's "declassified" defense after FBI raid "is going to fail": McQuade

The former U.S. attorney said Saturday that the statutes listed on the FBI's search warrant have nothing to do with classification status.

www.newsweek.com

 

[2aguy]

In the warrant (LINK), the laws allegedly broken are included....

"All physical documents and records constituting evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or
other items illegally possessed in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 793, 2071 , or 1519

Here are links to the three statutes...

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally

www.law.cornell.edu

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy

www.law.cornell.edu

I am not a lawyer, but my read is that it will difficult to prove violation of these statutes, even if classified material was actually seized, for the reasoning I include below (my opinions, not cut and pasted or researched anywhere).

You Biden supporters and/or Trump haters can let me know why I am wrong.

18 U.S. Code § 793 - Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information​

Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to the advantage of any foreign nation...

This statute requires that the person not only be in possession of the material, but that they person believes the material is to be used for injury to the US. No one, even Trump haters with a brain, would think that Trump was going to use the material to cause damage to the United States. What was Trump planning to do, sell nuclear secrets to Kim Jong Un in exchange for billions of dollars? Release the rcords to the NYT to damage the reputation of the US? Doesn't seem credible.

18 U.S. Code § 2071 - Concealment, removal, or mutilation generally​

Whoever willfully and unlawfully conceals, removes, mutilates, obliterates, or destroys, or attempts to do so, or, with intent to do so

This statute requires willful intent. So if Team Trump did not know there was classified material in the boxes, it would appear to be a successful defense against any relevant charge. Also, if there was no concealment or attempt to destroy, and Team Trump had told the FBI to come and get the material anytime it wanted to, like Trump has posted on Truth Social, then there would be no violation...
View attachment 681946

18 U.S. Code § 1519 - Destruction, alteration, or falsification of records in Federal investigations and bankruptcy​

Whoever knowingly alters, destroys, mutilates, conceals, covers up, falsifies, or makes a false entry in any record, document, or tangible object with the intent to impede, obstruct, or influence the investigation or proper administration of any matter

This statute also requires intent. It's relevance is probably that it has been reported that Trump's lawyer signed a statement saying there was no classified material at Mar-A-Lago in June....

Trump's lawyer told the DOJ that ALL classified docs were returned

One of the lawyers working for Former President Donald Trump signed a written statement in June confirming that all classified material had been returned to the government.

www.dailymail.co.uk

If that signed statement was believed to be true at the time, there is no violation of this statute.

Opinions?

This too............you guys.....I would feel sorry for you if you weren't such asshats...oh.....and obama and his directives also support Trump......



The Article III Project added some context on precautions taken for former presidents. “Former presidents have government-paid staff and offices, Secret Service protection, security clearances, and secure facilities to store classified records, so there’s no legitimate concern that President Trump’s records could have gotten into the wrong hands,” Davis told Bloomberg.
---------

Trump believes he’s supported by Bush and Obama-era executive orders detailing that a sitting president does not have to go through the stringent rules required for others to treat classified documents.

The president’s detractors in Congress, the DOJ, and the intelligence community are likely to contest the president’s arguments. But officials familiar with national security law said courts generally have held the president’s power to declassify is far-reaching and that the process for how that happens can be more happenstance, something the Bush and Obama executive orders from 2003 and 2009 made clear.

Obama’s executive order no. 13526, issued in 2009, laid out the stringent process all federal officials and agencies needed to follow for declassification, but explicitly exempted the sitting president and vice president from having to follow those procedures.

Trump Says the Docs Taken in Mar-a-Lago Raid Were Declassified Because He's the One Who Did It

Donald Trump says he knows the documents the FBI took in the notorious Mar-a-Lago raid on Monday were declassified because he’s the one who declassified them....

pjmedia.com

 

[Foxfyre]

But it wasn't until the informant, told them that trump did NOT turn them all over, which was recently, and well after the June subpoena visit by the FBI, and one of the reasons they were able to, and did, go for a search warrant this time, instead of another subpoena....

You mean their mole they say they planted in his office? Decent people do that? Who is to say that person is telling the truth? That they actually got something in the raid? When they don't allow witnesses? GIven their willingness to dishonorably and maliciously frame him before, who could hate him so much as to believe there is no way they are doing that now?

 

[Winco]

They were given FULL ACCESS to those boxes and could have taken them at that time if they wanted them.

The Wall Street Journal reported Thursday that Jay Bratt, the Justice Department’s counterintelligence chief, made a written request June 8 — five days after the initial meeting — for a stronger lock on the basement door, signing his note: “Thank you.” A source told the paper that a new lock was put in place the next day.

At some point in the following days, according to the outlet, investigators received a tip that there may be additional classified documents at the resort.

Feds served subpoena, seized documents from Trump’s Mar-a-Lago in June: report

This week’s FBI search at Mar-a-Lago isn’t the first time the feds came to former president Donald Trump’s Florida resort seeking classified documents, according to a report Thurs…

nypost.com