Everyone has solutions, - lets hear yours: North Korea

[usmbguest5318]

Understanding North Korea

Military strike--millions die.
Diplomacy--no one has tried since .... when? But reports are the guy is a maniac who can't be reasoned with.
The assassination thing, which if it could be accomplished, probably would have been done years ago.
So we sit back and wait for him to perfect his nukes? Watch as he fires more and more technically capable missiles into the Sea of Japan?

Do I hear a motion for the millions dying?

I hear a motion for the millions dying?

I can't say I'd aim to kill off millions, but their demise isn't something over which I'll lose any sleep.

I'm not sure I like the idea of killing off millions of North and South Koreans just because they had the great misfortune of being born there and NK has the leader it does. So much of life is the luck of where you're born, isn't it?
So you don't agree that China has the magic wand to fend off this maniac?

I'm not sure I like the idea of killing off millions of North and South Koreans just because they had the great misfortune of being born there and NK has the leader it does.

I don't particularly like the notion, but I'm not troubled by it as goes NK.

So much of life is the luck of where you're born, isn't it?

Yes. One need not without exception be limited by their circumstance of birth, but if one doesn't act to not be constrained by it, one will be. That's as much the case for North Koreans as it is of every other creature on the planet.

So you don't agree that China has the magic wand to fend off this maniac?

I don't know whether China has a "magic wand" that can contain, constrain or change that loon. I know only that they've either (1) been reticent to use it if they have one, or (2) the "magic in their wand" doesn't work. They've now had, what, five or six missile tests worth of time to wave whatever "wand" they have. I'm sorry, but I've seen no "rabbits popping out of the hat," only ballistic missiles flying through the sky and nuclear weapons exploding.

You and Unk seem to both have a lot of back story here. I know absolutely nothing about NK except what I learned from M.A.S.H. and what I've heard in the past few months about their missile strikes. I know you could tell me to research it, but I don't know who to trust, and I would trust both of you to tell me why you are so dead set against this guy? I don't doubt you, I just don't know why.

I don't know who to trust

I can't say that I trust anyone as much as I simply listen to what it's reported that the man thinks. Just today, for example, it was reported that KJU thinks the U.S. has designs on his nation. Now why he thinks that is beyond me. What's there that anyone, most especially the U.S., would want? Sure, there's the possibility that NK has about 2/3rds of the world's mineable rare earth elements, but the U.S. would sooner help a nation develop those resources than take over (annex) it. Given his populace's relative ignorance about the world, there's no way the U.S. would want to get too heavily involved with them.

As for learning about NK, I'd suggest the following:

• Understanding North Korea
  
• North Korea: U.S. Relations, Nuclear Diplomacy, and Internal Situation Emma Chanlett-Avery, Coordinator -- Jan 2016 CRS presentation of the state of affairs in NK. If I were seeking one source that has reliable and concisely presented information -- sort of the "Cliff Notes" on NK -- this is what I'd read.
• Unraveling North Korea ’s Preferences and Managing its Nuclear Threat -- Pre-2011, but still relevant and worth reading along with more recent analysis and exposition, such as the CRS report above, for comparison and contrast purposes, "lessons learned" if you will, provided one reads it with a critical eye and doesn't place unwarranted importance on the comparatively insignificant factors.
  
• North Korea’s Provocation and Escalation Calculus: Dealing with the Kim Jong-un Regime
  
• Profile: Kim Jong-un, North Korea's supreme commander - BBC News
  
• The Collapse of North Korea: A Prospect to Celebrate or Fear? -- This is an excellent essay that examines the "and then what" aspect of NK's demise as a nation state.
  • Preparing for the Possibility of a North Korean Collapse -- This is a vastly more detailed consideration of the potential of NK-ean collapse and its impacts.

If you are of a mind to learn more about NK and what considerations are in play -- be they re: my "assassination" route or any other -- I'd say the place to start is with the CRS report and one of the other two bold-italicized documents.

 

[Sunni Man]

N.Korea is an irrational regime based on a dictatorial family who rules it like a fiefdom. Someone needs to kill this fat boy king and exterminate his line same as the Bolsheviks exterminated the Tsar. .

Why is who rules N Korea any of our business? Many countries are ruled by dictators.

Time for the U.S. to chill out and worry about problems within its own borders. ....

 

[Timmy]

Is Nk really a threat to us ? Ohhhh maybe they have a missle that has. 30% chance of working!

Why would they waste it on the Us when they have more important rivals .

And the leaders are crazy like a fox . They don't want any of this shit .

 

[Onyx]

Is Nk really a threat to us ? Ohhhh maybe they have a missle that has. 30% chance of working!.

They are a geopolitical and economic threat to the United States. Not a physical one.

If they ever develop a missile capable of hitting the United States, they would use it for deterrence. Even if they did launch one though, it wouldn't destroy more than a city block.

 

[OldLady]

Understanding North Korea

Military strike--millions die.
Diplomacy--no one has tried since .... when? But reports are the guy is a maniac who can't be reasoned with.
The assassination thing, which if it could be accomplished, probably would have been done years ago.
So we sit back and wait for him to perfect his nukes? Watch as he fires more and more technically capable missiles into the Sea of Japan?

Do I hear a motion for the millions dying?

I hear a motion for the millions dying?

I can't say I'd aim to kill off millions, but their demise isn't something over which I'll lose any sleep.

I'm not sure I like the idea of killing off millions of North and South Koreans just because they had the great misfortune of being born there and NK has the leader it does. So much of life is the luck of where you're born, isn't it?
So you don't agree that China has the magic wand to fend off this maniac?

I'm not sure I like the idea of killing off millions of North and South Koreans just because they had the great misfortune of being born there and NK has the leader it does.

I don't particularly like the notion, but I'm not troubled by it as goes NK.

So much of life is the luck of where you're born, isn't it?

Yes. One need not without exception be limited by their circumstance of birth, but if one doesn't act to not be constrained by it, one will be. That's as much the case for North Koreans as it is of every other creature on the planet.

So you don't agree that China has the magic wand to fend off this maniac?

I don't know whether China has a "magic wand" that can contain, constrain or change that loon. I know only that they've either (1) been reticent to use it if they have one, or (2) the "magic in their wand" doesn't work. They've now had, what, five or six missile tests worth of time to wave whatever "wand" they have. I'm sorry, but I've seen no "rabbits popping out of the hat," only ballistic missiles flying through the sky and nuclear weapons exploding.

You and Unk seem to both have a lot of back story here. I know absolutely nothing about NK except what I learned from M.A.S.H. and what I've heard in the past few months about their missile strikes. I know you could tell me to research it, but I don't know who to trust, and I would trust both of you to tell me why you are so dead set against this guy? I don't doubt you, I just don't know why.

I don't know who to trust

I can't say that I trust anyone as much as I simply listen to what it's reported that the man thinks. Just today, for example, it was reported that KJU thinks the U.S. has designs on his nation. Now why he thinks that is beyond me. What's there that anyone, most especially the U.S., would want? Sure, there's the possibility that NK has about 2/3rds of the world's mineable rare earth elements, but the U.S. would sooner help a nation develop those resources than take over (annex) it. Given his populace's relative ignorance about the world, there's no way the U.S. would want to get too heavily involved with them.

As for learning about NK, I'd suggest the following:

• Understanding North Korea
  
• North Korea: U.S. Relations, Nuclear Diplomacy, and Internal Situation Emma Chanlett-Avery, Coordinator -- Jan 2016 CRS presentation of the state of affairs in NK. If I were seeking one source that has reliable and concisely presented information -- sort of the "Cliff Notes" on NK -- this is what I'd read.
• Unraveling North Korea ’s Preferences and Managing its Nuclear Threat -- Pre-2011, but still relevant and worth reading along with more recent analysis and exposition, such as the CRS report above, for comparison and contrast purposes, "lessons learned" if you will, provided one reads it with a critical eye and doesn't place unwarranted importance on the comparatively insignificant factors.
  
• North Korea’s Provocation and Escalation Calculus: Dealing with the Kim Jong-un Regime
  
• Profile: Kim Jong-un, North Korea's supreme commander - BBC News
  
• The Collapse of North Korea: A Prospect to Celebrate or Fear? -- This is an excellent essay that examines the "and then what" aspect of NK's demise as a nation state.
  • Preparing for the Possibility of a North Korean Collapse -- This is a vastly more detailed consideration of the potential of NK-ean collapse and its impacts.

If you are of a mind to learn more about NK and what considerations are in play -- be they re: my "assassination" route or any other -- I'd say the place to start is with the CRS report and one of the other two bold-italicized documents.

Thank you, kind sir.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Truly, I don't know why the Russians haven't taken him out. They murdered their own royal family. It can't be nearly as challenging to countenance doing away with a "looney tune" like KJU. I suppose Putin like KJU being there because Un is a source of instability, instability works to Russia's advantage at the moment. \

You're clueless. First off, anyone that knows anything about North Korea is aware that Kim is a mere figurehead. The real governing body in the DPRK is the National Defense Commission. The highest ranking generals determine everything that goes on inside the country, and they only kept the Kim family around due to their strong cult of personality.

The DPRK is as much of an ally to the Russian Federation as it is the PRC. Russia is North Korea's second largest trade partner, and has offered billions in loans to the regime. Both countries have agreed on the creation of joint economic development zones at their border regions. The Russian defense industry sells a lot of high tech military equipment to the KPA.

China and Russia often get tired of their bullshit, but make no mistake. They are military and economically aligned.

You're clueless. First off, anyone that knows anything about North Korea is aware that Kim is a mere figurehead. The real governing body in the DPRK is the National Defense Commission.

The NDC is as of October/November 2016 defunct. Anyone who claims to know so much about the DPRK would know that and not today be talking about the NDC.

I'm aware of Thae Yong-ho's attesting to the growing discontent among the "higher ups" in the DPRK. To be sure, there are people there who know the rest of the world is quite content to allow NK to exist as a nation unto itself. The thing is that the main thing standing in the way of that is KJU. Once he's gone, cooler heads can prevail. Based on Mr. Thae's public statements, one must infer that there are saner heads than KJU's on the State Affairs Commission (SAC).

• No Laughing Matter: North Koreans’ Discontent and Daring Jokes
  
• Rare Survey Inside North Korea Hints at Growing Discontent
  
• Is revolution possible in North Korea? | NK News - North Korea News
  
• North Korean Leadership Dynamics and Decision-making under Kim Jong-un

And while we're on the matter of your babbling, tell me, just how much of a trading partner do you think the DPRK is with Russia? Two point three percent of the DPRK's imports come from Russia and no mentionable share of its imports come from Russia. North Korea is to Russia what China, now Mexico and Bangladesh, was/is to the U.S.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Truly, I don't know why the Russians haven't taken him out. They murdered their own royal family. It can't be nearly as challenging to countenance doing away with a "looney tune" like KJU. I suppose Putin like KJU being there because Un is a source of instability, instability works to Russia's advantage at the moment. \

You're clueless. First off, anyone that knows anything about North Korea is aware that Kim is a mere figurehead. The real governing body in the DPRK is the National Defense Commission. The highest ranking generals determine everything that goes on inside the country, and they only kept the Kim family around due to their strong cult of personality.

The DPRK is as much of an ally to the Russian Federation as it is the PRC. Russia is North Korea's second largest trade partner, and has offered billions in loans to the regime. Both countries have agreed on the creation of joint economic development zones at their border regions. The Russian defense industry sells a lot of high tech military equipment to the KPA.

China and Russia often get tired of their bullshit, but make no mistake. They are military and economically aligned.

Are you the only person who knows this? I have not heard a word of this breathed ANYWHERE in any news coverage--it's always that China is it's only supplier of coal, food, etc. Considering how much we've been vilifying the Russians lately, you'd think we would take the opportunity to slam them on this, if it were true.

Are you the only person who knows this? I have not heard a word of this breathed ANYWHERE in any news

He's likely referring to the speculation and information presented by the fellow who defected from the DPRK.

Of course, the other member wasn't willing to share with us with any specific information that corroborated (or that gives rise to reasonable inference to that effect) his assertions about what "anyone that knows anything about North Korea." Our other member would rather simply assert that someone else doesn't know what they are talking about when it's quite clear he's not nearly as current with regard to his own tracking of the goings on in the DPRK.

 

[usmbguest5318]

Understanding North Korea

I can't say I'd aim to kill off millions, but their demise isn't something over which I'll lose any sleep.

I'm not sure I like the idea of killing off millions of North and South Koreans just because they had the great misfortune of being born there and NK has the leader it does. So much of life is the luck of where you're born, isn't it?
So you don't agree that China has the magic wand to fend off this maniac?

I'm not sure I like the idea of killing off millions of North and South Koreans just because they had the great misfortune of being born there and NK has the leader it does.

I don't particularly like the notion, but I'm not troubled by it as goes NK.

So much of life is the luck of where you're born, isn't it?

Yes. One need not without exception be limited by their circumstance of birth, but if one doesn't act to not be constrained by it, one will be. That's as much the case for North Koreans as it is of every other creature on the planet.

So you don't agree that China has the magic wand to fend off this maniac?

I don't know whether China has a "magic wand" that can contain, constrain or change that loon. I know only that they've either (1) been reticent to use it if they have one, or (2) the "magic in their wand" doesn't work. They've now had, what, five or six missile tests worth of time to wave whatever "wand" they have. I'm sorry, but I've seen no "rabbits popping out of the hat," only ballistic missiles flying through the sky and nuclear weapons exploding.

You and Unk seem to both have a lot of back story here. I know absolutely nothing about NK except what I learned from M.A.S.H. and what I've heard in the past few months about their missile strikes. I know you could tell me to research it, but I don't know who to trust, and I would trust both of you to tell me why you are so dead set against this guy? I don't doubt you, I just don't know why.

I don't know who to trust

I can't say that I trust anyone as much as I simply listen to what it's reported that the man thinks. Just today, for example, it was reported that KJU thinks the U.S. has designs on his nation. Now why he thinks that is beyond me. What's there that anyone, most especially the U.S., would want? Sure, there's the possibility that NK has about 2/3rds of the world's mineable rare earth elements, but the U.S. would sooner help a nation develop those resources than take over (annex) it. Given his populace's relative ignorance about the world, there's no way the U.S. would want to get too heavily involved with them.

As for learning about NK, I'd suggest the following:

• Understanding North Korea
  
• North Korea: U.S. Relations, Nuclear Diplomacy, and Internal Situation Emma Chanlett-Avery, Coordinator -- Jan 2016 CRS presentation of the state of affairs in NK. If I were seeking one source that has reliable and concisely presented information -- sort of the "Cliff Notes" on NK -- this is what I'd read.
• Unraveling North Korea ’s Preferences and Managing its Nuclear Threat -- Pre-2011, but still relevant and worth reading along with more recent analysis and exposition, such as the CRS report above, for comparison and contrast purposes, "lessons learned" if you will, provided one reads it with a critical eye and doesn't place unwarranted importance on the comparatively insignificant factors.
  
• North Korea’s Provocation and Escalation Calculus: Dealing with the Kim Jong-un Regime
  
• Profile: Kim Jong-un, North Korea's supreme commander - BBC News
  
• The Collapse of North Korea: A Prospect to Celebrate or Fear? -- This is an excellent essay that examines the "and then what" aspect of NK's demise as a nation state.
  • Preparing for the Possibility of a North Korean Collapse -- This is a vastly more detailed consideration of the potential of NK-ean collapse and its impacts.

If you are of a mind to learn more about NK and what considerations are in play -- be they re: my "assassination" route or any other -- I'd say the place to start is with the CRS report and one of the other two bold-italicized documents.

Thank you, kind sir.

You're welcome. BTW, for a high level view of the DPRK's economy, look here: OEC - North Korea (PRK) Exports, Imports, and Trade Partners.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

We should send them more bombs to play with.

Sooner or later, they will take themselves out.

 

[MrShangles]

NK does have its reasons to want to protect itself. The paranoia and ultra sensitivity? Is it really paranoid to be nervous about the US rattling its sabers on the NK border? Ask the countries bordering Russia if they are paranoid about its military build up on their borders or if they are being understandably nervous.
The only way out of this tension is diplomacy, and by that I mean real diplomacy where the US, including the President, hold out an olive branch to NK and begin talks to reassure them that we don't want their little stinkin' country. Will we persuade them to get rid of their ballistic missiles and nuclear bombs? Probably not. But if we were allies or at least neutral, NK might relax.
Granted, I don't know a lot about their history or what has led to the present tension, but diplomacy is all that will solve it, if NK will play.

No more apology tours, sorry. There's a new sheriff in town.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tom Horn]

The only way it ends if Un isn't clipped is by an all-out air attack on their arty pieces aimed at Seoul and US troops, followed by a full-scale invasion from S.Korea. We've given them the training and armaments to do the job so let them take care of their own kind. China won't get involved if it costs them a total trade-ban with us...in fact, they'd probably welcome being rid of that fat little psycho.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The great thing about North Korea is they are ruled by a whack job idiot,

Oh, and we are not?

Are you a butthurt snowflake liberal?

Whack jobs are bi partisan.

 

[yiostheoy]

The S.Koreans are going to need to go on full alert and man their northern border with every tank and arty piece and man/woman that they have got.

Then a U.S. missile sub will need to launch an attack on N.Korea.

Then the sh!t will hit the fan.

But hopefully the fat boy in N.Korea will be taught the fear of God or else be killed in the battle.

That would also be a good time for a N.Korean general to take the fat boy out.

 

[Coyote]

The problem isn't North Korea. The problem has always been China. We have a problem when it comes to negotiation leverage over China because they don't give a shit. I'll explain... In most cases, you can negotiate with another party by appealing to their self interests. China will go against it's own self interest as a matter of pride. It's in their DNA and part of their ancient culture. When you remove self interests from the negotiation equation, it becomes problematic defining what will motivate the other party.

It's not an easy problem to solve which is why no one has had a solution for more than 50 years to North Korea.

I don't think that's the case. Any solution that includes a mass of refugees, or nuclear strikes will land right on China's doorstep.

Do you forsee the US taking in a mass of NK refugees? I doubt it.

 

[HenryBHough]

Until January I'd have predicted that fatboy would nuke Los Angeles and then hastily be awarded a Nobel Peace Prize.

But not now.

He may launch but it would likely be the last thing he ever does.

Which is NOT to say that he might not posthumously be awarded the same prize warmonger Obama was handed.

 

[P@triot]

So...how should we approach this latest crisis with NK?

I don't think we need to worry about a full scale strike on North Korea resulting in some form of retaliation on South Korea. Between ourselves and Israel, we have plenty of anti-missile systems to protect South Korea. The real issue is the reaction from China (and maybe Russia to a small degree).

The solution would be a true international coalition against them. Which is one reason the bombing of Syria was so stupid. President Trump should have helped Assad quell the uprising. Not only does that provide exponential security for us against islamic terrorism, but then we could have lobbied Syria and Russia for their assistance with North Korea (who are the real global security threat).

As it stands at the moment - I would say an assassination attempt on Kim Jong-Un would be the best option (again - in the immediate). While hard to do, we could pull it off. Israel's assassination of Iranian nuclear scientists was masterful. It can be done.

 

[P@triot]

Do you forsee the US taking in a mass of NK refugees? I doubt it.

It won't be necessary. North Korea is not an islamic fundamentalist state. You won't see the same type of civil unrest. You'll see a bunch of people ecstatic to be free. With international assistance, I think North and South Korea could be united again under the South Korean government.

But....again...the issue is China. They aren't going to let us blow up North Korea.

 

[P@triot]

The only way out of this tension is diplomacy, and by that I mean real diplomacy where the US, including the President, hold out an olive branch to NK and begin talks to reassure them that we don't want their little stinkin' country.

My dear....there is no "olive branching" with a certified psycho like Kim Jong-Un. That dude is 45-shades of bat-shit crazy. Anyone who believes we can appease him and provide a diplomatic solution is kidding themselves. The ONLY thing that would EVER appease Kim Jong-Un would be the unconditional surrender of the entire planet to his control.

 

[Coyote]

Do you forsee the US taking in a mass of NK refugees? I doubt it.

It won't be necessary. North Korea is not an islamic fundamentalist state. You won't see the same type of civil unrest. You'll see a bunch of people ecstatic to be free. With international assistance, I think North and South Korea could be united again under the South Korean government.

But....again...the issue is China. They aren't going to let us blow up North Korea.

Not so sure about that. These are people steeped in propoganda about the outside and themselves.

 

[P@triot]

Why not just leave North Korea alone and just ignore the place?

Because Kim Jong-Un is a loose cannon attempting to create nuclear weapons and he will use them. You can't ignore sociopaths. Adolf Hitler taught us there. Everyone said to ignore him as well and that it was Europe's problem. How did that work out?

You don't wait for a problem to become uncontrollable before you address it. You address it BEFORE it becomes any kind of serious problem. Again...World War II taught us that.