Evolution

[Tommy Tainant]

Climate change deniers run a parallel line in disparaging alternate energy sources.

Renewables can never replace fossil fuels runs the mantra.

I dont get this standpoint.

I understand that we arent there yet in this respect but you can see it coming like a train down the track.

Consider this.

What does your current mobile phone do compared to the first one you owned ? And they get better every year.

What about your computer ? First one I bought was about 20 years ago and it was crap and cost a fortune. But I had a lot of fun with it.

In fact everything in your home is a 100 times better than it was a decade back. Older posters will remember that we used to have tv repairmen. Its true. As a child they were like living gods to me because the telly was always breaking down.

So my question is this.

Why cant renewables make the same advances that have been made in other technologies ?

I can see a future where we can generate our own power and are free of the shackles of the big corporations. Can you see it too ?

 

[fncceo]

Why cant renewables make the same advances that have been made in other technologies ?

They absolutely can. They aren't there yet, but there are technologies under development that show promise.

However, the great strides in computer and telecommunications technology in the last 40 years didn't come through government subsidies and a forced abandonment of existing technologies. Those advances were the result of innovative companies allowing the market to decide which technologies succeeded and which failed.

At any point in the past 40 years, if the government had decided that one technology was preferable over another, and forced adaptation, we would have been stuck with ISDN, or analog cell phones, or packet switched networks instead of the much more advanced technologies we have today.

You compare technological development to evolution and it's an apt analogy. Evolution is wildly unpredictable. It is brutal and requires the death of anything which isn't suited to the environment. Any attempt to subvert the will of evolution will end up in a vastly inferior result.

Invest in the future, but stop trying to destroy the past before it's ready to be destroyed. When the answer comes along, the old ways will be discarded without any questions and it won't require government subsidies or a government mandate.

 

[toobfreak]

Renewables can never replace fossil fuels runs the mantra.

Of course they can. The only problem is that they are still too expensive. As soon as we have the technology to make them as affordable as coal, we will be there.

Older posters will remember that we used to have tv repairmen. Its true. As a child they were like living gods to me because the telly was always breaking down.

Of course they were! When you were a kid your TV was always breaking down because it used vacuum tubes that wore out and instead of auto-steering and adjusting circuits, they had all kinds of little dials and knobs on the front, back and inside that most people didn't know how to adjust.

I can see a future where we can generate our own power and are free of the shackles of the big corporations.

Dude, we are already there. If you have the money you can generate all the electricity you want through solar and other means, use it free, even sell the surplus you don't need back to the power company and they have to buy it!

 

[EvilCat Breath]

None of those technological advances came about due to government command.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Climate change deniers run a parallel line in disparaging alternate energy sources.

Renewables can never replace fossil fuels runs the mantra.

I dont get this standpoint.

I understand that we arent there yet in this respect but you can see it coming like a train down the track.

Consider this.

What does your current mobile phone do compared to the first one you owned ? And they get better every year.

What about your computer ? First one I bought was about 20 years ago and it was crap and cost a fortune. But I had a lot of fun with it.

In fact everything in your home is a 100 times better than it was a decade back. Older posters will remember that we used to have tv repairmen. Its true. As a child they were like living gods to me because the telly was always breaking down.

So my question is this.

Why cant renewables make the same advances that have been made in other technologies ?

I can see a future where we can generate our own power and are free of the shackles of the big corporations. Can you see it too ?

Renewables can never replace fossil fuels runs the mantra.

I dont get this standpoint.

Because you're a moron.

 

[DOTR]

Climate change deniers run a parallel line in disparaging alternate energy sources.

Renewables can never replace fossil fuels runs the mantra.

I dont get this standpoint.

I understand that we arent there yet in this respect but you can see it coming like a train down the track.

Consider this.

What does your current mobile phone do compared to the first one you owned ? And they get better every year.

What about your computer ? First one I bought was about 20 years ago and it was crap and cost a fortune. But I had a lot of fun with it.

In fact everything in your home is a 100 times better than it was a decade back. Older posters will remember that we used to have tv repairmen. Its true. As a child they were like living gods to me because the telly was always breaking down.

So my question is this.

Why cant renewables make the same advances that have been made in other technologies ?

I can see a future where we can generate our own power and are free of the shackles of the big corporations. Can you see it too ?

Mobile phones are apples and oranges. There was no physics reason they couldnt improve.

I dont doubt alternative energy will improve. But how about until they do dont bankrupt us with ridiculous pie in the sky fantasies? The Germans have tried...

Germany's Energy Poverty: How Electricity Became a Luxury Good - SPIEGEL ONLINE - International

 

[flacaltenn]

Climate change deniers run a parallel line in disparaging alternate energy sources.

Renewables can never replace fossil fuels runs the mantra.

I dont get this standpoint.

I understand that we arent there yet in this respect but you can see it coming like a train down the track.

Consider this.

What does your current mobile phone do compared to the first one you owned ? And they get better every year.

What about your computer ? First one I bought was about 20 years ago and it was crap and cost a fortune. But I had a lot of fun with it.

In fact everything in your home is a 100 times better than it was a decade back. Older posters will remember that we used to have tv repairmen. Its true. As a child they were like living gods to me because the telly was always breaking down.

So my question is this.

Why cant renewables make the same advances that have been made in other technologies ?

I can see a future where we can generate our own power and are free of the shackles of the big corporations. Can you see it too ?

Solar Tech is OLDER than the mobile phone. OLDER than the internet. It's MATURE technology. Don't EXPECT leaps and bounds. It's close to the theoretical limits. YOU need to make the sun shine at night. Or during snowy weeks and rainy days. Same with wind conversion. It's basically a turbine generator. Been around for fucking forever. Started with water pumps in the land of Wooden Shoes ages ago.

You are NEVER gonna run a survival 21st society on these 2 methods. They are NOT reliable. Can not be contracted for because delivery is not guaranteed. And STORING electricity is an Enviro nightmare.

Use them as the "SUPPLEMENTS" as they are. They are NOT --- alternatives.

 

[BULLDOG]

None of those technological advances came about due to government command.

Are you kidding me? Which part of the modern smart phone, hardware or software, didn't start out as a government research grant?

 

[IsaacNewton]

Climate change deniers run a parallel line in disparaging alternate energy sources.

Renewables can never replace fossil fuels runs the mantra.

I dont get this standpoint.

I understand that we arent there yet in this respect but you can see it coming like a train down the track.

Consider this.

What does your current mobile phone do compared to the first one you owned ? And they get better every year.

What about your computer ? First one I bought was about 20 years ago and it was crap and cost a fortune. But I had a lot of fun with it.

In fact everything in your home is a 100 times better than it was a decade back. Older posters will remember that we used to have tv repairmen. Its true. As a child they were like living gods to me because the telly was always breaking down.

So my question is this.

Why cant renewables make the same advances that have been made in other technologies ?

I can see a future where we can generate our own power and are free of the shackles of the big corporations. Can you see it too ?

China announced last week that they will be phasing out fossil fuel burning vehicles entirely. The entire rest of the world is moving ahead and is dealing with reality but the ball and chain on America's ankle, conservatives, are holding us in the 1930s.

 

[fncceo]

China announced last week that they will be phasing out fossil fuel burning vehicles entirely.

Before the 29th century?

 

[DOTR]

Climate change deniers run a parallel line in disparaging alternate energy sources.

Renewables can never replace fossil fuels runs the mantra.

I dont get this standpoint.

I understand that we arent there yet in this respect but you can see it coming like a train down the track.

Consider this.

What does your current mobile phone do compared to the first one you owned ? And they get better every year.

What about your computer ? First one I bought was about 20 years ago and it was crap and cost a fortune. But I had a lot of fun with it.

In fact everything in your home is a 100 times better than it was a decade back. Older posters will remember that we used to have tv repairmen. Its true. As a child they were like living gods to me because the telly was always breaking down.

So my question is this.

Why cant renewables make the same advances that have been made in other technologies ?

I can see a future where we can generate our own power and are free of the shackles of the big corporations. Can you see it too ?

China announced last week that they will be phasing out fossil fuel burning vehicles entirely. The entire rest of the world is moving ahead and is dealing with reality but the ball and chain on America's ankle, conservatives, are holding us in the 1930s.

So another Great Leap Forward for the communist Chinese? First let's see them provide electricity reliably with what they have. They can't and face daily blackouts across the country.
At the moment they get over 60% of their energy from coal and produce more co2 than the us and India combined. Less than 10% of their coal plants have scrubbers and the pollution is so bad they had to shut power plants down temporarily for the Olympiad.
Typical marxist "if I want it then I will have it".
China is still building new coal plants by the way. The current 5 year plan calls for 14gw more coal power by 2020.

 

[DOTR]

We are out of Kyoto. Rest assured we will never again be part of it. Let china cripple their economy...if you trust dictators in a one party state to abide by treaties that is.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Climate change deniers run a parallel line in disparaging alternate energy sources.

Renewables can never replace fossil fuels runs the mantra.

I dont get this standpoint.

I understand that we arent there yet in this respect but you can see it coming like a train down the track.

Consider this.

What does your current mobile phone do compared to the first one you owned ? And they get better every year.

What about your computer ? First one I bought was about 20 years ago and it was crap and cost a fortune. But I had a lot of fun with it.

In fact everything in your home is a 100 times better than it was a decade back. Older posters will remember that we used to have tv repairmen. Its true. As a child they were like living gods to me because the telly was always breaking down.

So my question is this.

Why cant renewables make the same advances that have been made in other technologies ?

I can see a future where we can generate our own power and are free of the shackles of the big corporations. Can you see it too ?

Solar Tech is OLDER than the mobile phone. OLDER than the internet. It's MATURE technology. Don't EXPECT leaps and bounds. It's close to the theoretical limits. YOU need to make the sun shine at night. Or during snowy weeks and rainy days. Same with wind conversion. It's basically a turbine generator. Been around for fucking forever. Started with water pumps in the land of Wooden Shoes ages ago.

You are NEVER gonna run a survival 21st society on these 2 methods. They are NOT reliable. Can not be contracted for because delivery is not guaranteed. And STORING electricity is an Enviro nightmare.

Use them as the "SUPPLEMENTS" as they are. They are NOT --- alternatives.

Never say "never".

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Climate change deniers run a parallel line in disparaging alternate energy sources.

Renewables can never replace fossil fuels runs the mantra.

I dont get this standpoint.

I understand that we arent there yet in this respect but you can see it coming like a train down the track.

Consider this.

What does your current mobile phone do compared to the first one you owned ? And they get better every year.

What about your computer ? First one I bought was about 20 years ago and it was crap and cost a fortune. But I had a lot of fun with it.

In fact everything in your home is a 100 times better than it was a decade back. Older posters will remember that we used to have tv repairmen. Its true. As a child they were like living gods to me because the telly was always breaking down.

So my question is this.

Why cant renewables make the same advances that have been made in other technologies ?

I can see a future where we can generate our own power and are free of the shackles of the big corporations. Can you see it too ?

Solar Tech is OLDER than the mobile phone. OLDER than the internet. It's MATURE technology. Don't EXPECT leaps and bounds. It's close to the theoretical limits. YOU need to make the sun shine at night. Or during snowy weeks and rainy days. Same with wind conversion. It's basically a turbine generator. Been around for fucking forever. Started with water pumps in the land of Wooden Shoes ages ago.

You are NEVER gonna run a survival 21st society on these 2 methods. They are NOT reliable. Can not be contracted for because delivery is not guaranteed. And STORING electricity is an Enviro nightmare.

Use them as the "SUPPLEMENTS" as they are. They are NOT --- alternatives.

Never say "never".

How long before we have "renewable" jet travel?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Climate change deniers run a parallel line in disparaging alternate energy sources.

Renewables can never replace fossil fuels runs the mantra.

I dont get this standpoint.

I understand that we arent there yet in this respect but you can see it coming like a train down the track.

Consider this.

What does your current mobile phone do compared to the first one you owned ? And they get better every year.

What about your computer ? First one I bought was about 20 years ago and it was crap and cost a fortune. But I had a lot of fun with it.

In fact everything in your home is a 100 times better than it was a decade back. Older posters will remember that we used to have tv repairmen. Its true. As a child they were like living gods to me because the telly was always breaking down.

So my question is this.

Why cant renewables make the same advances that have been made in other technologies ?

I can see a future where we can generate our own power and are free of the shackles of the big corporations. Can you see it too ?

Solar Tech is OLDER than the mobile phone. OLDER than the internet. It's MATURE technology. Don't EXPECT leaps and bounds. It's close to the theoretical limits. YOU need to make the sun shine at night. Or during snowy weeks and rainy days. Same with wind conversion. It's basically a turbine generator. Been around for fucking forever. Started with water pumps in the land of Wooden Shoes ages ago.

You are NEVER gonna run a survival 21st society on these 2 methods. They are NOT reliable. Can not be contracted for because delivery is not guaranteed. And STORING electricity is an Enviro nightmare.

Use them as the "SUPPLEMENTS" as they are. They are NOT --- alternatives.

Never say "never".

How long before we have "renewable" jet travel?

5 years max.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Climate change deniers run a parallel line in disparaging alternate energy sources.

Renewables can never replace fossil fuels runs the mantra.

I dont get this standpoint.

I understand that we arent there yet in this respect but you can see it coming like a train down the track.

Consider this.

What does your current mobile phone do compared to the first one you owned ? And they get better every year.

What about your computer ? First one I bought was about 20 years ago and it was crap and cost a fortune. But I had a lot of fun with it.

In fact everything in your home is a 100 times better than it was a decade back. Older posters will remember that we used to have tv repairmen. Its true. As a child they were like living gods to me because the telly was always breaking down.

So my question is this.

Why cant renewables make the same advances that have been made in other technologies ?

I can see a future where we can generate our own power and are free of the shackles of the big corporations. Can you see it too ?

Solar Tech is OLDER than the mobile phone. OLDER than the internet. It's MATURE technology. Don't EXPECT leaps and bounds. It's close to the theoretical limits. YOU need to make the sun shine at night. Or during snowy weeks and rainy days. Same with wind conversion. It's basically a turbine generator. Been around for fucking forever. Started with water pumps in the land of Wooden Shoes ages ago.

You are NEVER gonna run a survival 21st society on these 2 methods. They are NOT reliable. Can not be contracted for because delivery is not guaranteed. And STORING electricity is an Enviro nightmare.

Use them as the "SUPPLEMENTS" as they are. They are NOT --- alternatives.

Never say "never".

How long before we have "renewable" jet travel?

5 years max.

How's it going to work?

 

[Old Rocks]

Why cant renewables make the same advances that have been made in other technologies ?

They absolutely can. They aren't there yet, but there are technologies under development that show promise.

However, the great strides in computer and telecommunications technology in the last 40 years didn't come through government subsidies and a forced abandonment of existing technologies. Those advances were the result of innovative companies allowing the market to decide which technologies succeeded and which failed.

At any point in the past 40 years, if the government had decided that one technology was preferable over another, and forced adaptation, we would have been stuck with ISDN, or analog cell phones, or packet switched networks instead of the much more advanced technologies we have today.

You compare technological development to evolution and it's an apt analogy. Evolution is wildly unpredictable. It is brutal and requires the death of anything which isn't suited to the environment. Any attempt to subvert the will of evolution will end up in a vastly inferior result.

Invest in the future, but stop trying to destroy the past before it's ready to be destroyed. When the answer comes along, the old ways will be discarded without any questions and it won't require government subsidies or a government mandate.

Jesus fucking Christ, man, how can you spew such drivel? The government and government supported educational institutions created the web.

Who invented the internet?

The first workable prototype of the Internet came in the late 1960s with the creation of ARPANET, or the Advanced Research Projects Agency Network. Originally funded by the U.S. Department of Defense, ARPANET used packet switching to allow multiple computers to communicate on a single network. The technology continued to grow in the 1970s after scientists Robert Kahn and Vinton Cerf developed Transmission Control Protocol and Internet Protocol, or TCP/IP, a communications model that set standards for how data could be transmitted between multiple networks. ARPANET adopted TCP/IP on January 1, 1983, and from there researchers began to assemble the “network of networks” that became the modern Internet. The online world then took on a more recognizable form in 1990, when computer scientist Tim Berners-Lee invented the World Wide Web. While it’s often confused with the Internet itself, the web is actually just the most common means of accessing data online in the form of websites and hyperlinks. The web helped popularize the Internet among the public, and served as a crucial step in developing the vast trove of information that most of us now access on a daily basis.

Your stupid ideology would have prevent the trans-continental railroad from being built. It would have prevented the Homestead act that settled the Great Plains and the West. The government has not dictated how we get energy from the wind and sun, just that we do it. Nor have has the government dictated who builds and sells the mill and panels here. Or that you cannot heat your water with black plastic panels. The government, and rightly so, simply is encouraging getting power without polluting the water or air. The coal plants are going out of business because the could not compete with natural gas, and now cannot compete with solar and wind. The market is now deciding that we will use the renewables in the future.

 

[deanrd]

Climate change deniers run a parallel line in disparaging alternate energy sources.

Renewables can never replace fossil fuels runs the mantra.

I dont get this standpoint.

I understand that we arent there yet in this respect but you can see it coming like a train down the track.

Consider this.

What does your current mobile phone do compared to the first one you owned ? And they get better every year.

What about your computer ? First one I bought was about 20 years ago and it was crap and cost a fortune. But I had a lot of fun with it.

In fact everything in your home is a 100 times better than it was a decade back. Older posters will remember that we used to have tv repairmen. Its true. As a child they were like living gods to me because the telly was always breaking down.

So my question is this.

Why cant renewables make the same advances that have been made in other technologies ?

I can see a future where we can generate our own power and are free of the shackles of the big corporations. Can you see it too ?

I dont get this standpoint.


It's ignorance pure and simple.
People who think the world is thousands of years old and think college is bad for America are terrible for America.

 

[Old Rocks]

Climate change deniers run a parallel line in disparaging alternate energy sources.

Renewables can never replace fossil fuels runs the mantra.

I dont get this standpoint.

I understand that we arent there yet in this respect but you can see it coming like a train down the track.

Consider this.

What does your current mobile phone do compared to the first one you owned ? And they get better every year.

What about your computer ? First one I bought was about 20 years ago and it was crap and cost a fortune. But I had a lot of fun with it.

In fact everything in your home is a 100 times better than it was a decade back. Older posters will remember that we used to have tv repairmen. Its true. As a child they were like living gods to me because the telly was always breaking down.

So my question is this.

Why cant renewables make the same advances that have been made in other technologies ?

I can see a future where we can generate our own power and are free of the shackles of the big corporations. Can you see it too ?

Solar Tech is OLDER than the mobile phone. OLDER than the internet. It's MATURE technology. Don't EXPECT leaps and bounds. It's close to the theoretical limits. YOU need to make the sun shine at night. Or during snowy weeks and rainy days. Same with wind conversion. It's basically a turbine generator. Been around for fucking forever. Started with water pumps in the land of Wooden Shoes ages ago.

You are NEVER gonna run a survival 21st society on these 2 methods. They are NOT reliable. Can not be contracted for because delivery is not guaranteed. And STORING electricity is an Enviro nightmare.

Use them as the "SUPPLEMENTS" as they are. They are NOT --- alternatives.

Never say "never".

How long before we have "renewable" jet travel?

5 years max.

How's it going to work?

Add the lithium glass Goodnough battery, and you have a winner, and a taste of the future.

 

[Old Rocks]

Climate change deniers run a parallel line in disparaging alternate energy sources.

Renewables can never replace fossil fuels runs the mantra.

I dont get this standpoint.

I understand that we arent there yet in this respect but you can see it coming like a train down the track.

Consider this.

What does your current mobile phone do compared to the first one you owned ? And they get better every year.

What about your computer ? First one I bought was about 20 years ago and it was crap and cost a fortune. But I had a lot of fun with it.

In fact everything in your home is a 100 times better than it was a decade back. Older posters will remember that we used to have tv repairmen. Its true. As a child they were like living gods to me because the telly was always breaking down.

So my question is this.

Why cant renewables make the same advances that have been made in other technologies ?

I can see a future where we can generate our own power and are free of the shackles of the big corporations. Can you see it too ?

Solar Tech is OLDER than the mobile phone. OLDER than the internet. It's MATURE technology. Don't EXPECT leaps and bounds. It's close to the theoretical limits. YOU need to make the sun shine at night. Or during snowy weeks and rainy days. Same with wind conversion. It's basically a turbine generator. Been around for fucking forever. Started with water pumps in the land of Wooden Shoes ages ago.

You are NEVER gonna run a survival 21st society on these 2 methods. They are NOT reliable. Can not be contracted for because delivery is not guaranteed. And STORING electricity is an Enviro nightmare.

Use them as the "SUPPLEMENTS" as they are. They are NOT --- alternatives.

Fucking bullshit. You can now buy panels for less than $0.60 a watt. You can build a 50 kw/hr storage battery for about $5000. I think you would have stopped the development of the ICE with the Model A.