Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
Bern go to Florida, buy a widget that costs 10.00, on you recipt you will see a state sales tax added
now if companies do that where sales tax instead of income tax is used to collect, whats the diff?
by the way state tax is 6% in Florida, so that item would be 10.60
I don't how to break it down for you any differently. Here's the score JRK.
We both agree welfare roles are too high.
I have solution to that and you have a solution to that. You figure the solution is simple, just make businesses pay people more. The myriad problems with this solution, from the logistical implications that would actually prevent from happening what you think would to the morally wrong aspects of it have been explained to you ad nauseum.
Your solution is why I keep asking the question you don't want to answer. Why should you not have to be responsible for providing for your own basic needs? I keep asking that question because that's the starting point. Depending on your answer one has to explore one set of solutions or another.
A living wage?
Here's a proposal for what that is based on the current tax structure
A truly LIVING WAGE is when one makes enough to have to pay FEDERAL income taxes.
So if we use that yardstick that means that 49% of all Americans do NOT make a LIVING WAGE.
A living wage?
Here's a proposal for what that is based on the current tax structure
A truly LIVING WAGE is when one makes enough to have to pay FEDERAL income taxes.
So if we use that yardstick that means that 49% of all Americans do NOT make a LIVING WAGE.
Explain how a family of 5 qualifies for welfare making 52k a year.
I havent seen anyone drop dead.
A living wage?
Here's a proposal for what that is based on the current tax structure
A truly LIVING WAGE is when one makes enough to have to pay FEDERAL income taxes.
So if we use that yardstick that means that 49% of all Americans do NOT make a LIVING WAGE.
Explain how a family of 5 qualifies for welfare making 52k a year.
I havent seen anyone drop dead.
1 $10,890 $13,600 $12,540
2 14,710 18,380 16,930
3 18,530 23,160 21,320
4 22,350 27,940 25,710
5 26,170 32,720 30,100
6 29,990 37,500 34,490
7 33,810 42,280 38,880
8 37,630 47,060 43,270
this is 2011 poverty levels, by no means is this the rate that is used to qualify for govt programs
use this link for those numbers
2011 HHS Poverty Guidelines
Explain how a family of 5 qualifies for welfare making 52k a year.
I havent seen anyone drop dead.
1 $10,890 $13,600 $12,540
2 14,710 18,380 16,930
3 18,530 23,160 21,320
4 22,350 27,940 25,710
5 26,170 32,720 30,100
6 29,990 37,500 34,490
7 33,810 42,280 38,880
8 37,630 47,060 43,270
this is 2011 poverty levels, by no means is this the rate that is used to qualify for govt programs
use this link for those numbers
2011 HHS Poverty Guidelines
No need. My figure is accurate I get flyers all the time. Since I am caring for three grandchildren through the State and Tribe.
The USA is the only modern country in the world where full time workers live in poverty and have no health care (750k bankruptcies a year, most HAVE insurance - crap insurance!)After 30 years of Voodoo: worst min. wage, work conditions, illegal work safeguards, vacations, work week, college costs, rich/poor gap, upward social mobility, % homeless and in prison. And you complain about the victims? Are you an idiot or an A-hole?
Pubs have blocked EVERYTHING since 2/4/2010- don't be duped...again. Stimulus worked-ran out in 2010.
I'm sorry- dupes are great people- but I can't take their lazy, ignorant, careless, stupid politics a minute longer. Sorry.
Why do people pull out platitudes like the above. You say stupid cliche things like America is so rich but people are still in poverty. It's like you expect income to be something that is just supposed to be there or happen for people and not something that has to be earned and worked for.
Bern no-one has said anything about giving any-one a dime, but you keep making that claim thats what being said
IT IS ABOUT EARNING IT. there is some loggers and framers I know that make 9-11.00 an hour I wish you could meet and you tell them they are not worked for what they have
This country is huge, there are millions of people who do not make muck more than 320-350 a week who work there butts off every day
1 $10,890 $13,600 $12,540
2 14,710 18,380 16,930
3 18,530 23,160 21,320
4 22,350 27,940 25,710
5 26,170 32,720 30,100
6 29,990 37,500 34,490
7 33,810 42,280 38,880
8 37,630 47,060 43,270
this is 2011 poverty levels, by no means is this the rate that is used to qualify for govt programs
use this link for those numbers
2011 HHS Poverty Guidelines
No need. My figure is accurate I get flyers all the time. Since I am caring for three grandchildren through the State and Tribe.
Brother I feel your pain. It is part as to why I have such an issue with the Min wage
Why do people pull out platitudes like the above. You say stupid cliche things like America is so rich but people are still in poverty. It's like you expect income to be something that is just supposed to be there or happen for people and not something that has to be earned and worked for.
Bern no-one has said anything about giving any-one a dime, but you keep making that claim thats what being said
IT IS ABOUT EARNING IT. there is some loggers and framers I know that make 9-11.00 an hour I wish you could meet and you tell them they are not worked for what they have
This country is huge, there are millions of people who do not make muck more than 320-350 a week who work there butts off every day
To which I would say you need to stop thinking that way. Compensation has never been about how pyhsically or mentally taxing a task is. It's about the work's value to someone else. Since most any guy can be trained to use a chainsaw, logging is generally not a high pay profession. People who are good with math, are detail oriented, take the time to go to school and become licenced accountants on the other hand are relatively much more rare and therefore get paid more despite not working as 'hard' as the logger.
And again with the confusing statements. It can't be about earning it if you're demanding up to a 50% pay increase for some people without having to do anything extra to 'earn' it.
A living wage?
Here's a proposal for what that is based on the current tax structure
A truly LIVING WAGE is when one makes enough to have to pay FEDERAL income taxes.
So if we use that yardstick that means that 49% of all Americans do NOT make a LIVING WAGE.
Explain how a family of 5 qualifies for welfare making 52k a year.
I havent seen anyone drop dead.
If you have the following net monthly income, then you can qualify for Food Stamps
For more than 8 people, add $312 for each added person.
- 1 person $903 or less
- 2 people $1,215 or less
- 3 people $1,526 or less
- 4 people $1,838 or less
- 5 people $2,150 or less (x 12 = $25,800 NOT $52,000!!!)
- 6 people $2,461 or less
- 7 people $2,773 or less
- 8 people $3,085 or less
Then we have no resp as tax payers to allow them to our interstates. we paid for them
Then the next time the WTC gets attacke, we will just allow the OBLs and Saddams to come and get all of there wealth
WHAT PART OF THEY PAY 0 IN TAXES DONT YOU GET?
IF THERE NOT PART OF THE SOLUTION, THERE PART OF THE PROBLEM AND WHEN IT COMES TO A LIVING WAGE THEY ARE THE PROBLEM
NOT THE TAX PAYER
I completely get it. If you go back a few posts it's one of the one things I actually agreed with you on. But if as you say, businesses always pass their taxes on to consumers, essentially having consumers pay their taxes, how are you EVER going to get them to pay taxes. If every extra cost levied against a business is always going to get passed on to the consumer, how are you ever going to get them to pay taxes? It's the wrong way to look at it. One could just as easily say really it's a really your employer paying all of YOUR taxes since that's where your income ultimately comes from. The even more confusing thing about what you're arguing is the other thing we both happen to agree on; that the corporate tax rate is too high. You are simply awash in contradictions. Calling someone 100% pro corporation, anti-worker and liberal all in the span of couple sentences? Complaining that workers are paying all of a corporations taxes yet arguing for lower corporate tax rates? Pardon us if we're all a hair confused.
Bern the reason the corporate tax rate is to hi is because of the run away wellfare, medicare, medicade cost we have
if the consumer pays that in wages, that wealth is being created and will be put back in the private sector
If that wealth is put in the govt's hands it gets so di luted with all the red tape
Bern go to Florida, buy a widget that costs 10.00, on you recipt you will see a state sales tax added
now if companies do that where sales tax instead of income tax is used to collect, whats the diff?
by the way state tax is 6% in Florida, so that item would be 10.60
I don't how to break it down for you any differently. Here's the score JRK.
We both agree welfare roles are too high.
I have solution to that and you have a solution to that. You figure the solution is simple, just make businesses pay people more. The myriad problems with this solution, from the logistical implications that would actually prevent from happening what you think would to the morally wrong aspects of it have been explained to you ad nauseum.
Your solution is why I keep asking the question you don't want to answer. Why should you not have to be responsible for providing for your own basic needs? I keep asking that question because that's the starting point. Depending on your answer one has to explore one set of solutions or another.
Bern I keep answering it and you keep ignoring it. You want a corporation to give that wealth to the federal govt
I want them to give it to there employees. The cost is the same if wecut the corporate tax rate in exchange for the minimum wage to go up
Bern no-one has said anything about giving any-one a dime, but you keep making that claim thats what being said
IT IS ABOUT EARNING IT. there is some loggers and framers I know that make 9-11.00 an hour I wish you could meet and you tell them they are not worked for what they have
This country is huge, there are millions of people who do not make muck more than 320-350 a week who work there butts off every day
To which I would say you need to stop thinking that way. Compensation has never been about how pyhsically or mentally taxing a task is. It's about the work's value to someone else. Since most any guy can be trained to use a chainsaw, logging is generally not a high pay profession. People who are good with math, are detail oriented, take the time to go to school and become licenced accountants on the other hand are relatively much more rare and therefore get paid more despite not working as 'hard' as the logger.
And again with the confusing statements. It can't be about earning it if you're demanding up to a 50% pay increase for some people without having to do anything extra to 'earn' it.
Bern some-one has to take the trash out
some-one has to log
drive a dump truck
Its a local issue any way such as east Texas, NW Florida, La. North Ga
I completely get it. If you go back a few posts it's one of the one things I actually agreed with you on. But if as you say, businesses always pass their taxes on to consumers, essentially having consumers pay their taxes, how are you EVER going to get them to pay taxes. If every extra cost levied against a business is always going to get passed on to the consumer, how are you ever going to get them to pay taxes? It's the wrong way to look at it. One could just as easily say really it's a really your employer paying all of YOUR taxes since that's where your income ultimately comes from. The even more confusing thing about what you're arguing is the other thing we both happen to agree on; that the corporate tax rate is too high. You are simply awash in contradictions. Calling someone 100% pro corporation, anti-worker and liberal all in the span of couple sentences? Complaining that workers are paying all of a corporations taxes yet arguing for lower corporate tax rates? Pardon us if we're all a hair confused.
Bern the reason the corporate tax rate is to hi is because of the run away wellfare, medicare, medicade cost we have
if the consumer pays that in wages, that wealth is being created and will be put back in the private sector
If that wealth is put in the govt's hands it gets so di luted with all the red tape
I get that you think that, but simply instituting a lower corporate tax rate is not going to cause people's wages to go up. It isn't going to change the market value of labor.
Bern no-one has said anything about giving any-one a dime, but you keep making that claim thats what being said
IT IS ABOUT EARNING IT. there is some loggers and framers I know that make 9-11.00 an hour I wish you could meet and you tell them they are not worked for what they have
This country is huge, there are millions of people who do not make muck more than 320-350 a week who work there butts off every day
To which I would say you need to stop thinking that way. Compensation has never been about how pyhsically or mentally taxing a task is. It's about the work's value to someone else. Since most any guy can be trained to use a chainsaw, logging is generally not a high pay profession. People who are good with math, are detail oriented, take the time to go to school and become licenced accountants on the other hand are relatively much more rare and therefore get paid more despite not working as 'hard' as the logger.
And again with the confusing statements. It can't be about earning it if you're demanding up to a 50% pay increase for some people without having to do anything extra to 'earn' it.
Bern some-one has to take the trash out
some-one has to log
drive a dump truck
Its a local issue any way such as east Texas, NW Florida, La. North Ga
Bern the reason the corporate tax rate is to hi is because of the run away wellfare, medicare, medicade cost we have
if the consumer pays that in wages, that wealth is being created and will be put back in the private sector
If that wealth is put in the govt's hands it gets so di luted with all the red tape
I get that you think that, but simply instituting a lower corporate tax rate is not going to cause people's wages to go up. It isn't going to change the market value of labor.
what I have stated before is by cutting the corporate rate by 40%, that would allow the minimum wage to be @ 12.00 an hour fr 20 million people based on 2007 numbers. I use that year because it was the cosest we had to a balanced budget sense the GOP budget of 2001
I don't how to break it down for you any differently. Here's the score JRK.
We both agree welfare roles are too high.
I have solution to that and you have a solution to that. You figure the solution is simple, just make businesses pay people more. The myriad problems with this solution, from the logistical implications that would actually prevent from happening what you think would to the morally wrong aspects of it have been explained to you ad nauseum.
Your solution is why I keep asking the question you don't want to answer. Why should you not have to be responsible for providing for your own basic needs? I keep asking that question because that's the starting point. Depending on your answer one has to explore one set of solutions or another.
Bern I keep answering it and you keep ignoring it. You want a corporation to give that wealth to the federal govt
I want them to give it to there employees. The cost is the same if wecut the corporate tax rate in exchange for the minimum wage to go up
No JRK, that isn't an answer to my question. The above is ignoring the question and skipping right to a solution on how to get people more money. And believe me I am NOT for giving the fedeal government anymore money than they absolutely need. I get the trade off you want to make here. Really I do. But your solution is only viable if your answer to my question above is no, you don't think people should be responsible for providing for their own needs. Something you manged to leave out of your response here.
Bern I keep answering it and you keep ignoring it. You want a corporation to give that wealth to the federal govt
I want them to give it to there employees. The cost is the same if wecut the corporate tax rate in exchange for the minimum wage to go up
No JRK, that isn't an answer to my question. The above is ignoring the question and skipping right to a solution on how to get people more money. And believe me I am NOT for giving the fedeal government anymore money than they absolutely need. I get the trade off you want to make here. Really I do. But your solution is only viable if your answer to my question above is no, you don't think people should be responsible for providing for their own needs. Something you manged to leave out of your response here.
YES IT IS the answer. Just because you do not like does not make it so Bern
The value of labor is not really all that subjective either. Some jobs-doctors, lawyers, professional engineers, CPAs, and other normally high paying work--requires a far more varied and proficient skill set than does a janitor or logger along with a specalized degree and certification by a panel of one's peers. That merits a whole lot more money than does the kid who just sweeps up and takes out the trash.
And the fact is, with or without a degree, some folks are such smarter, more motivated, more skilled, more dedicated and their labor is worth more to an employer than is the labor of other people. How much would you pay this young woman, a student at a Georgia university, to do anything?
Haftin' To Be Uproared - Occupy Atlanta - YouTube
