Exxon/Mobil Paid No Federal Income Tax in 2009

[uscitizen]

Government provides better paying jobs than corporations do. And with excellent benefits too.

 

[boedicca]

Government provides better paying jobs than corporations do. And with excellent benefits too.

Scuze me - but what does government make of value, exactly?

 

[Avatar4321]

Government provides better paying jobs than corporations do. And with excellent benefits too.

You have got to be delusional if you think the Government can continue to expand the way it has indefinitely.

You see wealth is only produced if they work we do provides something of value. Government jobs rarely do that. In fact, even the most basic jobs such as police, judges, and the courts exist solely because of corruption. They don't produce wealth. They exist solely to prevent it from deteriorating because we as a people are uncapable of living honest and moral lives.

You seem to think that wealth can only be created. But it is destroyed just as easy, in fact, often much easier.

 

[Ame®icano]

You economic illiterates would be amusing, if you provided any fresh material. But as all you do is burp up the same old tired bromides, you are boring.

You don't think corporations that rake in TRILLIONS on our soil have a responsibility to the citizenry in the towns, states and country in which operate and make money? Really? You are a corporatist puppet. Dance puppet, dance! I think I'd rather be boring. Oh, and please refute anything that I've stated. You're OK with shell companies and loopholes and corporate welfare to the detriment of our country so that a few already obscenely rich white guys can make another billion, right?

Loopholes in the tax code that allow "the evil rich" to avoid being taxed to extinction are bad things. Loopholes in the Constitution that allow the parasites to free-load even more on the backs of those that are responsible and self-accountable and earn for living are a good thing. WTF?

 

[Ame®icano]

You are right, we consumers do pay Exxon's taxes. Which means we are paying taxes to foreign governments because of the tax burden Congress put on these corporations. Some will say that Corporations should be taxed at a higher percentage (which if they were we, the consumers would be paying) but their comes a point when the cost of a product (in this case doing business as a corporation under the taxing authority of the U.S.) becomes too expensive and customers (in this case multi-national corporations) begin going elsewhere (in this case The Bahamas and elsewhere) to purchase their goods.

I'm not saying corporations should not be taxed, but what I am saying is that a Congress has priced us out of the market so to speak.

Immie

Immie? That's exactly what they've done. Exxon/Mobile pays HUGE Taxes in the cost of doing business. Anyone that thinks otherwise isn't looking deep enough.

And what I am saying is that if Congress didn't make it so expensive to do business in the U.S. fewer companies would seek domicile in other lands.

If you have a vending machine selling soda for $2 a can and right next to your machine someone puts another machine in selling soda for $1.5, which machine do you think thirsty customers are going to empty first?

Same principal applies here. If I can pay less in taxes by domiciling my corporation in The Bahamas then you can bet that is what I am going to do.

Immie

Progressives would tax the one that sells soda for $1.50 another 75c just to make it "fair game".

 

[Ame®icano]

Lots of conservatives defending the powerful corporations.

"Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power."
Benito Mussolini

Since you started...

“We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions.” ~ Hitler, 1927

 

[Tom Clancy]

No Nancy, I mean Clancy...you yourself just stated "And you think the Government is any better?" indicating that you KNOW that Corporations are nothing but SCUM.

I, however, believe and KNOW that the Government IS better.

WHO is the government other than you and me and your fellow American citizens...not a bunch of old farts in a corporate dungeon somewhere thinking up new ways to bilk the good folks from their money.

What has the Big Corp done for you lately? What has Big Miner done for you lately?

Aww Nancy? That's cute.

I'd take Corporation Greed over Government Greed any day.

Actually nowadays Government is made out of Elitists, meaning they don't give a darn flying shit about you or me.. They care about their own Special Interests, their own damn Greedy Agendas. Which in the end, hurts us more than Corp Greed.

What has the Big corp done for me? Actually, I work at a Local Ice Rink which indeed is a Franchise, they have provided Money for Gas, Money for my Lunch and Breakfast today and let's not forget money to pay off my new Truck.

You've been completly taught to hate all Corporations, and the only alternative you prefer or seem to think is "better" is Government.


Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
Thomas Paine

 

[uscitizen]

Government provides better paying jobs than corporations do. And with excellent benefits too.

Scuze me - but what does government make of value, exactly?

Jobs. So consumers can buy stuff corporations make.
Remember we are a consumer spending based economy.

Actually the govt supports the armanent industries and does a good job of making wars.
But then you did say of value, so I will stay with my first statement.

 

[Ame®icano]

Government provides better paying jobs than corporations do. And with excellent benefits too.

Scuze me - but what does government make of value, exactly?

Jobs. So consumers can buy stuff corporations make.
Remember we are a consumer spending based economy.

Actually the govt supports the armanent industries and does a good job of making wars.

 

[uscitizen]

Scuze me - but what does government make of value, exactly?

Jobs. So consumers can buy stuff corporations make.
Remember we are a consumer spending based economy.

Actually the govt supports the armanent industries and does a good job of making wars.

Was what I posted untrue?

Sort of screwey truth, not the ideal for sure. but truth.

what do you think would happen if the govt laid off 50% of it's employees and quit providing unemployment benefits?

Or quit paying SS or welfare or Medicare/medicaid?

complain about govt spending if you want, but right now the govt spending is all that is holding our economy together at all.
And yeah it sucks, but is the truth.

something like 30% of working americans owe their income to govt spending either directly or indirectly.
And a minimum of 10% of non govt employees are on unemployment benefits and "food Stamps" right now.

 

[FA_Q2]

Yes, what you posted is completely untrue. Jobs are not products, they are the means to make that product. If I pay you to sit on your ass (the average government job anyway) I have created nothing and, though YOU have gained wealth from it as the employee the overall system has gained nothing. The system actually LOST wealth in the lost productive time that could have been spent elsewhere. For the most part the government destroys wealth and productivity and rarely creates new value into the system. This is not true 100 percent of the time of course, the government does produce a few things such as roads and in some instances buildings. This is also variable creations as well as a road that no one needs or uses is not 'wealth' but a waste of resources. The large majority of the time the government does not produce anything that can be considered wealth.


On the other hand, corporations are the exact opposite. They generally take those jobs you were referring to and create wealth with them such as bicycles, cars, houses and all other forms of goods/services that are needed. Just like government, there are exceptions to this such as lawyers and other positions that do not generally produce anything and are a general drain on the system. One of our problems in this nation is we are straying down the path of financial services (one of those industries that does not create actual wealth but imagined wealth) without the wealth creating services to back it up. Those industries are moving away and it is diminishing the wealth within our country.


In the end, all government does is shift capital from the wealth creating industries to non-wealth creating government endeavors. The money that Uncle Sam used to pay that government worker to dig a hole and fill it up would be FAR better off used to pay that same worker to create a good in the private sector that adds true wealth to the entire system.

 

[Skull Pilot]

God Bless The Corporations!

Isn't that right Neo-Cons?

Fuck Off Statist jerk. Without the corporations? This economy means ZERO. YOU need a history lesson.

Go blow it out your ass you stinking Anarchist son-of-bitch!

Why don't you move to Capitalist China then?

Why would an anarchist move to China?

 

[The Rabbi]

People say "good for them" yet bitch about their taxes being so high. Well if billion dollar corporations don't pay taxes, who do you think is going to have to foot the bill? You think those companies spent their tax break dollars hiring more people and paying their employees well? probably not, just pocket it

You truly are an imbecile.
How do companies "pocket" money? Do you suppose there is a safe in the CEO's office where they stash piles of cash?
No. They use the money they didn't spend on taxes they weren't obligated to pay to hire workers, train workers, research and develop new products and processes, invest in other companies or return some of the money to their shareholders as dividends. All of those are way more productive uses for the money than sending it to Washington.

 

[Skull Pilot]

let's just put an end to all private businesses and corporations.

We can ALL work for the government. The government will tax us to pay us and whenever we want a pay raise the government will just borrow some more money from China.

The Libby Utopia.

 

[The Rabbi]

let's just put an end to all private businesses and corporations.

We can ALL work for the government. The government will tax us to pay us and whenever we want a pay raise the government will just borrow some more money from China.

The Libby Utopia.

Don't give them any ideas.

 

[editec]

Then you are a damn FOOL!!

Corporation DO NOT care about you or anything or anyone else...they are NOT people...they only care about its own GROWTH...ALL ELSE BE DAMNED.

Do. You. Understand. What. That. Means?

Why don't you stop spouting your NUT-WING BS and get a clue for once in your life man.

Sheeesh!!

How many people are employed by corporations?

About one in eight workers

How many people purchase products or services which improve their lives from corporations?

All of us since in many cases major corporations are the only game in town.

How well did the state run collective enterprises in the Soviet Union provide services and goods to the citizens of that empire?

Abysmally

You assume that profit is immoral.

Who does?

Nobody I know.

And I know one fuck of a lot of people who are (according to your POV, I suspect) lefties.

Not one of them thinks that profits are immoral. No one!

You just keep creating those strawmen.

Them you can knock down.

 

[drsmith1072]

You don't think corporations that rake in TRILLIONS on our soil have a responsibility to the citizenry in the towns, states and country in which operate and make money? Really? You are a corporatist puppet. Dance puppet, dance! I think I'd rather be boring. Oh, and please refute anything that I've stated. You're OK with shell companies and loopholes and corporate welfare to the detriment of our country so that a few already obscenely rich white guys can make another billion, right?

Exactly. They want the benefits of being an American company with none of the responsibility.

Oh and I noticed how he avoided you content AGAIN and tried to sidetrack the debate by asking you questions when he refused to answer yours. LOL

And America wants the benefits of their excellence in business strategy but do not want them to reap the rewards of such.

It goes both ways.

Actually NO it doesn't

There is nothing wrong with reaping the rewards of being good in business but thanks for the strawman.
The problem begins when they move jobs and money offshore to avoid paying taxes on the income earned based on the benefits of being an American based company. IMO when they do that they cross a line and should lose some of the benefits they recieve. They want the benefits but none of the responsibility. I am sorry but I don't think it should work that way.

 

[The Rabbi]

Exactly. They want the benefits of being an American company with none of the responsibility.

Oh and I noticed how he avoided you content AGAIN and tried to sidetrack the debate by asking you questions when he refused to answer yours. LOL

And America wants the benefits of their excellence in business strategy but do not want them to reap the rewards of such.

It goes both ways.

Actually NO it doesn't

There is nothing wrong with reaping the rewards of being good in business but thanks for the strawman.
The problem begins when they move jobs and money offshore to avoid paying taxes on the income earned based on the benefits of being an American based company. IMO when they do that they cross a line and should lose some of the benefits they recieve. They want the benefits but none of the responsibility. I am sorry but I don't think it should work that way.

They want the benefits but none of the responsibility. Gee, who does that sound like?
Actually everyone. And corporations have fiduciary duty to their shareholders to maximize investor profit.
Do you think when people take deductions on their taxes, e.g. mortgage interest, that they should lose their privileges of being Americans? No? How is this any different?
Exxon and every big company contributes plenty to the U.S. directly and indirectly.

 

[drsmith1072]

Plenty to step into the gap?

How and why? What is the incentive for anyone to raise capital and invest it in the very expensive and risky venture of oil exploration and development if, when they are successful, the government will abuse its power to destroy his business?

WOW nice leap. However, somewhere along the way you forgot that the focus was to take the drilling rights away from companies who avoid paying their share by exploiting loopholes, using dummy corporations, moving offices overseas and etc.

Don't engage in such practices and you won't have to face the consequences. Aren't you righties supposed to be all about personal responsibility??

Yep. We do. But we alos laugh at those that bend over backwards to find somewhere, somehow, how the corporations may have done something unethical.

If they broke the law, fine them.

But if you need to play semantics with the law to claim they broke it, then the time has come to back off.

LOL Do you laugh at yourself seeing how republicans/conservatives/independents in name only (actually hardcore republicans) bend over backwards to find somewhere, somehow, how obama may have done something unethical?? Sorry I just noticed the parallel and thought I would ask. Maybe the time has come to back off?" LOL

The core of the argument is to point out something that is WRONG with the system and draw attention to it so you can see about correcting the problem. Avoiding the facts of the argument as the previous poster did, and as you did, does nothing to further the argument and is less than honest.

BTW quoting the whole post and only cherrypicking one sentence out of it to respond to is very dishonest of you.

 

[drsmith1072]

If a business shows no net profit, why would they pay any income taxes?

Are you saying that the companies in question made no net profit?

If a business pays out most of what it earns to stockholders, taxes are collected on the gains of those stocks.

Doesn't this depend on whether the stockholders are American citizens or not?

if a business buys equipment, taxes are paid on the equipment.

Where did they buy the equipment??

A business pays employees, taxes are collected on that.

Where are those employees located and what is their nationality?

If a business contracts work out to another company, taxes are collected

Where is the other company located and where is it's base

Don't worry folks the money that Exxon made and spent caused many millions of tax dollars to flow into government's itchy little hands.

Ok well if you say so then it must be true. LOL