Exxon/Mobil Paid No Federal Income Tax in 2009

[drsmith1072]

And America wants the benefits of their excellence in business strategy but do not want them to reap the rewards of such.

It goes both ways.

Actually NO it doesn't

There is nothing wrong with reaping the rewards of being good in business but thanks for the strawman.
The problem begins when they move jobs and money offshore to avoid paying taxes on the income earned based on the benefits of being an American based company. IMO when they do that they cross a line and should lose some of the benefits they recieve. They want the benefits but none of the responsibility. I am sorry but I don't think it should work that way.

They want the benefits but none of the responsibility. Gee, who does that sound like?
Actually everyone. And corporations have fiduciary duty to their shareholders to maximize investor profit.
Do you think when people take deductions on their taxes, e.g. mortgage interest, that they should lose their privileges of being Americans? No? How is this any different?
Exxon and every big company contributes plenty to the U.S. directly and indirectly.

More strawmen arguments, imagine that. LOL I pay my taxes and am proud to be an American. I may not like everything that MY government spend my tax dollars on but I feel it is my duty to pay my share. I believe that what these American corporations do to make these profits when they exploit every loophole and move offices overseas to AVOID PAYING TAXES is bad for America.

I don't see how people can try to justify or rationalize that and pretend that it's a good thing.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Actually NO it doesn't

There is nothing wrong with reaping the rewards of being good in business but thanks for the strawman.
The problem begins when they move jobs and money offshore to avoid paying taxes on the income earned based on the benefits of being an American based company. IMO when they do that they cross a line and should lose some of the benefits they recieve. They want the benefits but none of the responsibility. I am sorry but I don't think it should work that way.

They want the benefits but none of the responsibility. Gee, who does that sound like?
Actually everyone. And corporations have fiduciary duty to their shareholders to maximize investor profit.
Do you think when people take deductions on their taxes, e.g. mortgage interest, that they should lose their privileges of being Americans? No? How is this any different?
Exxon and every big company contributes plenty to the U.S. directly and indirectly.

More strawmen arguments, imagine that. LOL I pay my taxes and am proud to be an American. I may not like everything that MY government spend my tax dollars on but I feel it is my duty to pay my share. I believe that what these American corporations do to make these profits when they exploit every loophole and move offices overseas to AVOID PAYING TAXES is bad for America.

I don't see how people can try to justify or rationalize that and pretend that it's a good thing.

It's called free enterprise.

I suppose you'd be happier if the government told Exxon and other big businesses what to do, when to do it and how and where it should be done right?

 

[drsmith1072]

Yep. We do. But we alos laugh at those that bend over backwards to find somewhere, somehow, how the corporations may have done something unethical.

If they broke the law, fine them.

But if you need to play semantics with the law to claim they broke it, then the time has come to back off.

LOL Do you laugh at yourself seeing how republicans/conservatives/independents in name only (actually hardcore republicans) bend over backwards to find somewhere, somehow, how obama may have done something unethical?? Sorry I just noticed the parallel and thought I would ask. Maybe the time has come to back off?" LOL

The core of the argument is to point out something that is WRONG with the system and draw attention to it so you can see about correcting the problem. Avoiding the facts of the argument as the previous poster did, and as you did, does nothing to further the argument and is less than honest.

BTW quoting the whole post and only cherrypicking one sentence out of it to respond to is very dishonest of you.

First:

Yes I do find it amusing and concerning when people pick apart every move President Obama makes. He farts and people say it is becuase he ate Marxist food.

It makes it quite difficult to lend credibility to true and accurate AND SOMETIMES necessary criticsm.

When did I cherry pick your post? I dont even know how to do it ot be frank. I hit reply and I type away.

If I did it, it certainly was not intentional, and I dare you to find a single response of mine anywhere else where I did it. I DONT KNOW HOW TO NOR DO I CARE TO KNOW HOW TO.

LOL jsut calling you out for cherrypicking and only responding to part of the post while ignoring the core. Sorry if that got you riled but since you are being so nice about it, I just have to say that's not my problem. LOL

However, thnaks for the response concerning the make something out of nothing "bend over backwards to find somewhere, somehow, how obama may have done something unethical" tactics of conservative/republicans.

 

[Vast LWC]

It's not a sin to act in one's rational self interest in a manner that does not coerce anyone else.

You are not forced to purchase Exxon products. If you oppose their business model that much, buy your gasoline elsewhere. It's really simple.

Just don't be a coward and expect the government to punish them for law abiding behavior just because you don't like it. That's what weenies do.

Allowing Exxon to use our natural resources is a privilege, not a right. Therefore taking away that privilege and giving it to someone else is not "punishing Exxon", it is exercising OUR right as a nation to lease our natural resources to whomever we want to lease them to.

If Exxon is not an American company, (and if it doesn't choose to pay taxes here, than it is effectively NOT an American company) then certainly it would probably be the wise choice to lease our mineral rights to an American company that pays their taxes.

And Exxon can go suck it.

 

[Vast LWC]

Game, Set, Match argument for flat taxation, no exemptions or subsidies.

Not to mention, conclusive proof, we as a nation are overtaxed.

I'll agree with the first part.

 

[Vast LWC]

If you punish success, the end result will be less business activity, less jobs, and more government dependency. If you can' see that, you aren't paying attention.

Well, if Exxon is so successful, they should have no trouble paying taxes in the country that they are supposedly based in.

So, which is it, is Exxon doing well, or is it not making enough profit to pay their taxes?

 

[drsmith1072]

If a business shows no net profit, why would they pay any income taxes?

Are you saying that the companies in question made no net profit?



Doesn't this depend on whether the stockholders are American citizens or not?



Where did they buy the equipment??



Where are those employees located and what is their nationality?



Where is the other company located and where is it's base

Don't worry folks the money that Exxon made and spent caused many millions of tax dollars to flow into government's itchy little hands.

Ok well if you say so then it must be true. LOL

yes because Exxon has no US citizens as employees right?

they do absolutely no business in the US right?

They have no US stock holders right?

Maybe we should just declare Exxon persona non gratis and kick them out of the country.

While we're at it can we kick every other slacker out who gets more from the government than they pay in taxes?

WOW you answer questions with questions. Imagine that. LOL
You were the one making the statements, I merely asked you questions concerning YOUR statements asking you to clarify.

 

[rdean]

It's important to understand the ideological differences between the left and the right.

For the left, the health and rights of the individual are paramount. They see the strength of the country coming from it's citizens.

The right sees the strength of the country coming from it's businesses. They are willing to sacrifice segments of society if it keeps business successful, which in turn will keep the country strong. Almost like a beehive. The fringes of the hive are easily sacrificed for the good of the hive.

This is why the right is willing to accept old people homeless and living on the streets. Money from Social Security and Medicare can be better used building more bombs that will keep us "safe". They are against "health care". Those people, if they aren't "productive" then the best thing they could do is "die".

It's just a difference of philosophy.

 

[Immanuel]

Guess what, bub - All Taxes Are Eventually Paid For By Consumers.

Companies price their tax burden into their products and services.

You are right, we consumers do pay Exxon's taxes. Which means we are paying taxes to foreign governments because of the tax burden Congress put on these corporations. Some will say that Corporations should be taxed at a higher percentage (which if they were we, the consumers would be paying) but their comes a point when the cost of a product (in this case doing business as a corporation under the taxing authority of the U.S.) becomes too expensive and customers (in this case multi-national corporations) begin going elsewhere (in this case The Bahamas and elsewhere) to purchase their goods.

I'm not saying corporations should not be taxed, but what I am saying is that Congress has priced us out of the market so to speak.

Immie

Really? Do you happen to have any specifics on the numbers for the "tax burden Congress put on these corporations."?

Is it really as high and imposing as you are implying?

BTW what are they purchasing in "the bahamas and elsewhere"?

If you can't read, why should I bother replying to you?

It is clear as the wart on your nose, what they are "buying" from The Bahamas and elsewhere. They are "buying" the right to do business in a nation that does not tax them or burden them with what they believe to be unnecessary regulations.

As for specifics, you will have to ask them why they chose to go elsewhere. Since you do not understand that "cheaper" is sometimes better, I doubt you will be able to figure out their response.

Immie

 

[Skull Pilot]

Are you saying that the companies in question made no net profit?



Doesn't this depend on whether the stockholders are American citizens or not?



Where did they buy the equipment??



Where are those employees located and what is their nationality?



Where is the other company located and where is it's base



Ok well if you say so then it must be true. LOL

yes because Exxon has no US citizens as employees right?

they do absolutely no business in the US right?

They have no US stock holders right?

Maybe we should just declare Exxon persona non gratis and kick them out of the country.

While we're at it can we kick every other slacker out who gets more from the government than they pay in taxes?

WOW you answer questions with questions. Imagine that. LOL
You were the one making the statements, I merely asked you questions concerning YOUR statements asking you to clarify.

And my original point that many millions in taxes were collected because of Exxon' operations still stands.

 

[The Rabbi]

Actually NO it doesn't

There is nothing wrong with reaping the rewards of being good in business but thanks for the strawman.
The problem begins when they move jobs and money offshore to avoid paying taxes on the income earned based on the benefits of being an American based company. IMO when they do that they cross a line and should lose some of the benefits they recieve. They want the benefits but none of the responsibility. I am sorry but I don't think it should work that way.

They want the benefits but none of the responsibility. Gee, who does that sound like?
Actually everyone. And corporations have fiduciary duty to their shareholders to maximize investor profit.
Do you think when people take deductions on their taxes, e.g. mortgage interest, that they should lose their privileges of being Americans? No? How is this any different?
Exxon and every big company contributes plenty to the U.S. directly and indirectly.

More strawmen arguments, imagine that. LOL I pay my taxes and am proud to be an American. I may not like everything that MY government spend my tax dollars on but I feel it is my duty to pay my share. I believe that what these American corporations do to make these profits when they exploit every loophole and move offices overseas to AVOID PAYING TAXES is bad for America.

I don't see how people can try to justify or rationalize that and pretend that it's a good thing.

do you take every deduction you are entitled to?
If not you are an unpatriotic American just trying to swindle the system.
At least on your view.
Yes, they exploit every loophole to avoid paying taxes. So do I. So does every business owner I know.
But since my taxes are in the thousands rather than in the hundreds of millions/billions like Exxon I am more limited in the steps I can take to avoid the liability.

The gov't could easily close every "loophole" but in the process will create more. And if they make it too simple many accountants will be out of business.

 

[The T]

If you punish success, the end result will be less business activity, less jobs, and more government dependency. If you can' see that, you aren't paying attention.

Yep. Incentive will be gone. The only thing ultimately you'll have left is survival.

 

[CurveLight]

They want the benefits but none of the responsibility. Gee, who does that sound like?
Actually everyone. And corporations have fiduciary duty to their shareholders to maximize investor profit.
Do you think when people take deductions on their taxes, e.g. mortgage interest, that they should lose their privileges of being Americans? No? How is this any different?
Exxon and every big company contributes plenty to the U.S. directly and indirectly.

More strawmen arguments, imagine that. LOL I pay my taxes and am proud to be an American. I may not like everything that MY government spend my tax dollars on but I feel it is my duty to pay my share. I believe that what these American corporations do to make these profits when they exploit every loophole and move offices overseas to AVOID PAYING TAXES is bad for America.

I don't see how people can try to justify or rationalize that and pretend that it's a good thing.

It's called free enterprise.

I suppose you'd be happier if the government told Exxon and other big businesses what to do, when to do it and how and where it should be done right?

more strawmen doesn't help and only makes it obvious you can't debate on point

 

[drsmith1072]

Then let's vote the Democrats out.

and replace them with what?? The same big government republicans that ran the show for 6 years and did almost every act that you are now trying to use to attack the democrats?? LOL

Replace them with those with state legislature records of TRUE bi partisan voting.

In other words, replace them with those that have proven that they believe people first, party last.

They DO exist.

And what about those republicans that don't fit your description of "true bi-partisan voting" and "those that have proven that they believe people first, party last"??

Will you replace them too?? after all "they DO exist." LOL

 

[drsmith1072]

If you punish success, the end result will be less business activity, less jobs, and more government dependency. If you can' see that, you aren't paying attention.

WOW more strawman arguments. No one is talking about punishing success but thanks for the spin.

 

[drsmith1072]

They want the benefits but none of the responsibility. Gee, who does that sound like?
Actually everyone. And corporations have fiduciary duty to their shareholders to maximize investor profit.
Do you think when people take deductions on their taxes, e.g. mortgage interest, that they should lose their privileges of being Americans? No? How is this any different?
Exxon and every big company contributes plenty to the U.S. directly and indirectly.

More strawmen arguments, imagine that. LOL I pay my taxes and am proud to be an American. I may not like everything that MY government spend my tax dollars on but I feel it is my duty to pay my share. I believe that what these American corporations do to make these profits when they exploit every loophole and move offices overseas to AVOID PAYING TAXES is bad for America.

I don't see how people can try to justify or rationalize that and pretend that it's a good thing.

It's called free enterprise.

I suppose you'd be happier if the government told Exxon and other big businesses what to do, when to do it and how and where it should be done right?

Hiding your income using shell companies and other such less than honest means to avoid it being taxed is NOT what I call an example of free enterprise.

Oh and thank you once again for making up an opinion and falsely attributing it to me so you can try to demonize me. LOL

 

[drsmith1072]

You are right, we consumers do pay Exxon's taxes. Which means we are paying taxes to foreign governments because of the tax burden Congress put on these corporations. Some will say that Corporations should be taxed at a higher percentage (which if they were we, the consumers would be paying) but their comes a point when the cost of a product (in this case doing business as a corporation under the taxing authority of the U.S.) becomes too expensive and customers (in this case multi-national corporations) begin going elsewhere (in this case The Bahamas and elsewhere) to purchase their goods.

I'm not saying corporations should not be taxed, but what I am saying is that Congress has priced us out of the market so to speak.

Immie

Really? Do you happen to have any specifics on the numbers for the "tax burden Congress put on these corporations."?

Is it really as high and imposing as you are implying?

BTW what are they purchasing in "the bahamas and elsewhere"?

If you can't read, why should I bother replying to you?

It is clear as the wart on your nose, what they are "buying" from The Bahamas and elsewhere. They are "buying" the right to do business in a nation that does not tax them or burden them with what they believe to be unnecessary regulations.

As for specifics, you will have to ask them why they chose to go elsewhere. Since you do not understand that "cheaper" is sometimes better, I doubt you will be able to figure out their response.

Immie

So you still have NO specifics and you try to attack me personally to make up for your lack of info. LOL

YOU made a claim about the tax burden applied to these companies by congress so I asked YOU for specifics to back up YOUR argument and YOU failed to provide any. That has nothing to do with me but it sure says a lot about YOU. '

 

[drsmith1072]

yes because Exxon has no US citizens as employees right?

they do absolutely no business in the US right?

They have no US stock holders right?

Maybe we should just declare Exxon persona non gratis and kick them out of the country.

While we're at it can we kick every other slacker out who gets more from the government than they pay in taxes?

WOW you answer questions with questions. Imagine that. LOL
You were the one making the statements, I merely asked you questions concerning YOUR statements asking you to clarify.

And my original point that many millions in taxes were collected because of Exxon' operations still stands.

Actually NO it doesn't. Have you bothered proving your statements or answered the questions directed at them?? NO, then how does a point that was never made stand?? LOL

 

[drsmith1072]

They want the benefits but none of the responsibility. Gee, who does that sound like?
Actually everyone. And corporations have fiduciary duty to their shareholders to maximize investor profit.
Do you think when people take deductions on their taxes, e.g. mortgage interest, that they should lose their privileges of being Americans? No? How is this any different?
Exxon and every big company contributes plenty to the U.S. directly and indirectly.

More strawmen arguments, imagine that. LOL I pay my taxes and am proud to be an American. I may not like everything that MY government spend my tax dollars on but I feel it is my duty to pay my share. I believe that what these American corporations do to make these profits when they exploit every loophole and move offices overseas to AVOID PAYING TAXES is bad for America.

I don't see how people can try to justify or rationalize that and pretend that it's a good thing.

do you take every deduction you are entitled to?
If not you are an unpatriotic American just trying to swindle the system.
At least on your view.
Yes, they exploit every loophole to avoid paying taxes. So do I. So does every business owner I know.
But since my taxes are in the thousands rather than in the hundreds of millions/billions like Exxon I am more limited in the steps I can take to avoid the liability.

The gov't could easily close every "loophole" but in the process will create more. And if they make it too simple many accountants will be out of business.

WOW so now out of sheer desperation and dishoensty you are actually trying to rationalize and to equate taking every tax deduction I qualify for to companies doing everything they can including creating shell companies to hide income to avoid paying taxes on that income.

How is taking deductions equivalent to hiding income to keep it from being taxed?? Funny I thought republicans/righties were against tax evasion?? LOL

 

[The Rabbi]

More strawmen arguments, imagine that. LOL I pay my taxes and am proud to be an American. I may not like everything that MY government spend my tax dollars on but I feel it is my duty to pay my share. I believe that what these American corporations do to make these profits when they exploit every loophole and move offices overseas to AVOID PAYING TAXES is bad for America.

I don't see how people can try to justify or rationalize that and pretend that it's a good thing.

do you take every deduction you are entitled to?
If not you are an unpatriotic American just trying to swindle the system.
At least on your view.
Yes, they exploit every loophole to avoid paying taxes. So do I. So does every business owner I know.
But since my taxes are in the thousands rather than in the hundreds of millions/billions like Exxon I am more limited in the steps I can take to avoid the liability.

The gov't could easily close every "loophole" but in the process will create more. And if they make it too simple many accountants will be out of business.

WOW so now out of sheer desperation and dishoensty you are actually trying to rationalize and to equate taking every tax deduction I qualify for to companies doing everything they can including creating shell companies to hide income to avoid paying taxes on that income.

How is taking deductions equivalent to hiding income to keep it from being taxed?? Funny I thought republicans/righties were against tax evasion?? LOL

Please.
If companies are hiding money, then they need to be prosecuted. Please post lists of actions against companies for doing what they are doing.
There are none. They are doing nothing illegal, therefore no prosecutions. Is it illegal to create shell companies? Is it illegal to shelter income offshore?
No, there is nothing illegal about it. So comparing one way of doing business to assure minimum tax liability to another way to insure minimum tax liability seems like a pretty good comparison to me.