Fascism

[Coyote]

I see the pattern you're talking about but - I not sure I agree with your analysis. Both right and left extreme ideologies go towards authoritarianism/totalitarianism if you look at it in a 4 square model with left/right authoritarian/liberty axis.

Fascist states specifically opposed socialist/marxist ideology and the idea of a classless state was opposed by fascists who believed in a strict and natural social order. That produces very different propoganda. The propoganda the fascists fed their people which united them - was opposition to communism (the so called "creeping sharia" of that era) - fear unites and makes excellant propoganda. The Soviets did the same with their anti-western propoganda and added a bit of the Russian persecution complex (everyone is out to get us) for flavor.

How Fascism Works

• Survival of the fittest: Some fascist philosophers were influenced by the writings of Charles Darwin and his theory of natural selection. In the context of fascism, the State is only as powerful as its ability to wage wars and win them. The State is thereby selected for survival due to its strength and dominance. Peace is viewed as weakness, aggression as strength. Strength is the ultimate good and ensures the survival of the State.
• Strict social order: Fascism maintains a strict class structure. In this way, it's the antithesis of communism, which abolishes class distinctions. Fascism believes that clearly divided classes are necessary to avoid any hint of chaos, which is a threat to the State. The State's power depends on the maintenance of a class system in which every person has a definite, unchangeable, specific role in glorifying the state. It's an absolute rejection of humanism and democracy.
• Authoritarian leadership: The State's interests require a single, charismatic leader with absolute authority. This is the concept of Führerprinzip, "the leadership principle" in German -- that it's necessary to have an all-powerful, heroic leader to maintain the unity and unquestioning submission required by the fascist State. This leader often becomes a symbol of the State.

Again, name the real differences between Nazi Germany and Communist Russia

In terms of results - very little. I'm sure that means you will argue that proves Nazi Germany was "leftwing" and others would argue that proves Stalin was "rightwing". What they did was less reflected of an ideology than it was of a single-minded obsession of an autocratic ruler and in that, it defies all ideology.

So now your claiming that fascism and socialism have no relation to the left/right political spectrum?

You've argued yourself into a circle. You've been claiming for this entire thread that fascism is "right wing," but now you just admitted that calling it "right wing" is bullshit.

Actually if you read what I wrote (which you don't seem very good at) - I've stated the following. Hitler's Nazism is largely regarded as neither right nor left, but a mess of both and unique and I've posted sources for that already. Fascism is widely regarded as rightwing. Socialism as leftwing.

In fact both Stalinism and Nazism have become their own categories.

However,,you've been educated here that that is incorrect.....

Afraid not. Open your mind and learn something new

 

[Coyote]

Capitalism needs some regulation.

If it doesn't have regulations who decides what a dollar is worth? Mad Max?

Who decides what a life is worth?

 

[Iceweasel]

Also, you can have social democracies (a number of European states have this) where individualism co-exists with the state.

We all have to co-exist with the state but that isn't socialism. If the state isn't running business it isn't fascism. If the state doesn't own business, it isn't socialism. If the state doesn't own the people it isn't communism.

All this crap is to smear Trump as a fascist by people who don't know what it is, just a bad word.

It isn't pure socialism. Neither is it pure capitalism.

The Kibbutz's were "communist". The state didn't own them. Members were free to leave.

What's all this purity business? Purity is a religious concept. A social democracy isn't socialism. I'm not sure why it's called that but the countries themselves, like Germany are the Federal Republic of Germany. Which ones identify as socialist? I'm not even sure Greece does.

Maybe that's the problem - defining ideologies gets very fuzzy in reality. If something has some aspects of an ideology what is it?

I'd call it having some aspects of an ideology and leave the broad brush at home.

 

[owebo]

Again, name the real differences between Nazi Germany and Communist Russia

In terms of results - very little. I'm sure that means you will argue that proves Nazi Germany was "leftwing" and others would argue that proves Stalin was "rightwing". What they did was less reflected of an ideology than it was of a single-minded obsession of an autocratic ruler and in that, it defies all ideology.

So now your claiming that fascism and socialism have no relation to the left/right political spectrum?

You've argued yourself into a circle. You've been claiming for this entire thread that fascism is "right wing," but now you just admitted that calling it "right wing" is bullshit.

Actually if you read what I wrote (which you don't seem very good at) - I've stated the following. Hitler's Nazism is largely regarded as neither right nor left, but a mess of both and unique and I've posted sources for that already. Fascism is widely regarded as rightwing. Socialism as leftwing.

In fact both Stalinism and Nazism have become their own categories.

However,,you've been educated here that that is incorrect.....

Afraid not. Open your mind and learn something new

I did....you're a big government socialist.....leaning towards fascism....

Scary shit....

 

[Coyote]

Also, you can have social democracies (a number of European states have this) where individualism co-exists with the state.

We all have to co-exist with the state but that isn't socialism. If the state isn't running business it isn't fascism. If the state doesn't own business, it isn't socialism. If the state doesn't own the people it isn't communism.

All this crap is to smear Trump as a fascist by people who don't know what it is, just a bad word.

It isn't pure socialism. Neither is it pure capitalism.

The Kibbutz's were "communist". The state didn't own them. Members were free to leave.

What's all this purity business? Purity is a religious concept. A social democracy isn't socialism. I'm not sure why it's called that but the countries themselves, like Germany are the Federal Republic of Germany. Which ones identify as socialist? I'm not even sure Greece does.

Maybe that's the problem - defining ideologies gets very fuzzy in reality. If something has some aspects of an ideology what is it?

I'd call it having some aspects of an ideology and leave the broad brush at home.

hmmm....can you do that?

 

[Iceweasel]

Capitalism needs some regulation.

If it doesn't have regulations who decides what a dollar is worth? Mad Max?

Who decides what a life is worth?

Whaaaat? You're all over the place. Ask the aborted fetus. There, a new tangent.

 

[owebo]

Capitalism needs some regulation.

If it doesn't have regulations who decides what a dollar is worth? Mad Max?

Who decides what a life is worth?

The individual.....

 

[Coyote]

Capitalism needs some regulation.

If it doesn't have regulations who decides what a dollar is worth? Mad Max?

Who decides what a life is worth?

Whaaaat? You're all over the place. Ask the aborted fetus. There, a new tangent.

Not at all.

In unregulated capitalism - human life has very little value. Let's not derail into an abortion debate.

 

[sartre play]

I wish that your view that his name means so much to him that he will try not to screw up. It is possible he is picking the people he thinks will do the best job for him. some of them are why there are seeds of doubt growing. how can a person worth billions relate to working class Americans.

 

[owebo]

Capitalism needs some regulation.

If it doesn't have regulations who decides what a dollar is worth? Mad Max?

Who decides what a life is worth?

Whaaaat? You're all over the place. Ask the aborted fetus. There, a new tangent.

Not at all.

In unregulated capitalism - human life has very little value. Let's not derail into an abortion debate.

Actually, it has tremendous value or capitalism wouldn't exist....

 

[Iceweasel]

We all have to co-exist with the state but that isn't socialism. If the state isn't running business it isn't fascism. If the state doesn't own business, it isn't socialism. If the state doesn't own the people it isn't communism.

All this crap is to smear Trump as a fascist by people who don't know what it is, just a bad word.

It isn't pure socialism. Neither is it pure capitalism.

The Kibbutz's were "communist". The state didn't own them. Members were free to leave.

What's all this purity business? Purity is a religious concept. A social democracy isn't socialism. I'm not sure why it's called that but the countries themselves, like Germany are the Federal Republic of Germany. Which ones identify as socialist? I'm not even sure Greece does.

Maybe that's the problem - defining ideologies gets very fuzzy in reality. If something has some aspects of an ideology what is it?

I'd call it having some aspects of an ideology and leave the broad brush at home.

hmmm....can you do that?

I did. I used dictionary terms and you used your fuzzy logic one.

 

[owebo]

I wish that your view that his name means so much to him that he will try not to screw up. It is possible he is picking the people he thinks will do the best job for him. some of them are why there are seeds of doubt growing. how can a person worth billions relate to working class Americans.

He was once worth zero....so.....

 

[Iceweasel]

Capitalism needs some regulation.

If it doesn't have regulations who decides what a dollar is worth? Mad Max?

Who decides what a life is worth?

Whaaaat? You're all over the place. Ask the aborted fetus. There, a new tangent.

Not at all.

In unregulated capitalism - human life has very little value. Let's not derail into an abortion debate.

That was the point, you brought up life.

You keep using the term unregulated capitalism. No such thing exists, nor could it.

 

[sartre play]

Name one person who started from zero.

 

[regent]

Are these posts indicative of the population at large? Think of it, over 500 posts and no agreement on definitions of fascism. and yet what fascism (or something) has cost America in lives, money and disabilities is enormous. Are we a stupid people or is our politics that important that we must remain ignorant?

 

[Coyote]

''''

It isn't pure socialism. Neither is it pure capitalism.

The Kibbutz's were "communist". The state didn't own them. Members were free to leave.

What's all this purity business? Purity is a religious concept. A social democracy isn't socialism. I'm not sure why it's called that but the countries themselves, like Germany are the Federal Republic of Germany. Which ones identify as socialist? I'm not even sure Greece does.

Maybe that's the problem - defining ideologies gets very fuzzy in reality. If something has some aspects of an ideology what is it?

I'd call it having some aspects of an ideology and leave the broad brush at home.

hmmm....can you do that?

I did. I used dictionary terms and you used your fuzzy logic one.

Nope. I defined my terms. You just didn't like the definitions so you pretend that socialism is just an economic system.

 

[Coyote]

Capitalism needs some regulation.

If it doesn't have regulations who decides what a dollar is worth? Mad Max?

Who decides what a life is worth?

Whaaaat? You're all over the place. Ask the aborted fetus. There, a new tangent.

Not at all.

In unregulated capitalism - human life has very little value. Let's not derail into an abortion debate.

Actually, it has tremendous value or capitalism wouldn't exist....

That's patently untrue. In capitalism - the only thing of value is the bottom line, and human lives are just another commodity. If that were case, there would be no need to have laws regulating the number of hours a person can work, mandating safety standards, ending child labor, etc.

 

[Kondor3]

I did not vote because the highly biased OP created a highly biased poll that does not reflect the basic spectrum of answers; rather, he-she-it created a poll designed to generate results tailored to the OP's partisan purposes.

 

[owebo]

If it doesn't have regulations who decides what a dollar is worth? Mad Max?

Who decides what a life is worth?

Whaaaat? You're all over the place. Ask the aborted fetus. There, a new tangent.

Not at all.

In unregulated capitalism - human life has very little value. Let's not derail into an abortion debate.

Actually, it has tremendous value or capitalism wouldn't exist....

That's patently untrue. In capitalism - the only thing of value is the bottom line, and human lives are just another commodity. If that were case, there would be no need to have laws regulating the number of hours a person can work, mandating safety standards, ending child labor, etc.

No, it's an human desiring something....

I am against labor laws, safety standards, and anything that infringes upon the individual.....

 

[Iceweasel]

If it doesn't have regulations who decides what a dollar is worth? Mad Max?

Who decides what a life is worth?

Whaaaat? You're all over the place. Ask the aborted fetus. There, a new tangent.

Not at all.

In unregulated capitalism - human life has very little value. Let's not derail into an abortion debate.

Actually, it has tremendous value or capitalism wouldn't exist....

That's patently untrue. In capitalism - the only thing of value is the bottom line, and human lives are just another commodity. If that were case, there would be no need to have laws regulating the number of hours a person can work, mandating safety standards, ending child labor, etc.

You are trolling or out of touch with reality beyond all human comprehension.

I have been a business owner for 32 years and have known many many others. Money is not the bottom line on many occasions. You have to pay the bills but often there are more considerations involved. Quit jerking us around!