Fast Times in Palestine

[georgephillip]

Is it apartheid?

 

[Hossfly]

Is it apartheid?

No Georgie. It's more like "keep those suicide bombers out of our midst". That's what I think.

 

[Coyote]

How did Pamela Olson determine that jews and arabs
lived "side by side in '''relative peace"" in the middle
east for centuries"????? did she discuss that issue with
jews who have family legacy in the middle east for
centuries? Could someone define
"RELATIVE PEACE" for me? reminds me of those
stories I heard about HAPPY BLACK SLAVES ON THE
PLANTATIONS OF ANTEBELLUM SOUTH USA----in the
1960s oh I know BHARGOUTI TOLD HER

There is a good historical record to go by and relative is the key term and it needs to be judged by the standards of the time.. No one is claiming milk and honey and, in comparison to their treatment in the Christian world at the time, it was a good bit better.

 

[ForeverYoung436]

So tell us, Georgie Boy, how much time have you spent on the West Bank when it seems you can't even get out of your apartment and away from your computer.

Jewish 'settlers' bless Palestinians with pre-Passover bread - Israel Today | Israel News

"On the day before the biblical festival began, the massive quantity of bread was sent to nearby Palestinian communities with a note reading:

"'In the name of God the most merciful, we wish for neighborly relations. Our hands are extended in peace, peace from the heart. Peace is the grace of God and the name of God. From your Jewish neighbors, members of Eretz Shalom.'''

How does this noble gesture square with Bibi's New Covenant?

"The Accords created the Palestinian Authority (PA), headed by Arafat and based in Ramallah. It had limited administrative and security duties in the West Bank and Gaza while Israel retained control of water, airspace, and borders.

"This arrangement was supposed to last for a five-year period during which Israel and the PA would engage in trust-building measures and negotiate final-status issues such as East Jerusalem, refugees, borders, and settlements.

"It was hoped that an independent Palestinian state -- and peace -- would follow.

"Two years later, Rabin was assassinated by a right-wing Israeli who opposed the Oslo Accords. Rabin's replacement, Shimon Peres of the moderate Labor Party, was narrowly defeated a year later by Benjamin Netanyahu of the right-wing Likud Party.

"Netanyahu opposed the Accords, rejected the idea of a Palestinian state, and intensified settlement building in the occupied territories. In all, 380 Palestinians and 260 Israelis were killed during the 'Oslo peace years' of 1993-2000, and the settler population surged from 250,000 to more than 400,000. "

A Brief History of the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

Sorry to question your integrity, George. I didn't realize you have spent many days-months-years in the Territories. Shame upon me.

Territories? George never left his house.

 

[georgephillip]

I've never visited Poland, either:

"Auschwitz concentration camp (German: Konzentrationslager Auschwitz [ˈaʊʃvɪts] ( listen)) was a network of concentration and extermination camps built and operated by the Third Reich in Polish areas annexed by Nazi Germany during World War II.

"It was the largest of the Nazi concentration camps, consisting of Auschwitz I (the Stammlager or base camp); Auschwitz II–Birkenau (the Vernichtungslager or extermination camp); Auschwitz III–Monowitz, also known as Buna–Monowitz (a labor camp); and 45 satellite camps."

You?

Auschwitz concentration camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[ForeverYoung436]

I've never visited Poland, either:

"Auschwitz concentration camp (German: Konzentrationslager Auschwitz [ˈaʊʃvɪts] ( listen)) was a network of concentration and extermination camps built and operated by the Third Reich in Polish areas annexed by Nazi Germany during World War II.

"It was the largest of the Nazi concentration camps, consisting of Auschwitz I (the Stammlager or base camp); Auschwitz II–Birkenau (the Vernichtungslager or extermination camp); Auschwitz III–Monowitz, also known as Buna–Monowitz (a labor camp); and 45 satellite camps."

You?

Auschwitz concentration camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually, my sisters and brothers-in-law visited Poland and the camps about 3 years ago, including the camp where my dad's family died. I was invited to come, but felt that I couldn't hack it. On the video, it was the only time I saw one of my brothers-in-law cry. My other brother-in-law said that 2 weeks of talk about death was too much for him. All of my nieces and nephews have been to Poland too.

I HAVE been to the Territories though, and it's nothing like the "experts" here, you and Tinny and Sherri who have never been there, describe.

 

[Hossfly]

I've never visited Poland, either:

"Auschwitz concentration camp (German: Konzentrationslager Auschwitz [ˈaʊʃvɪts] ( listen)) was a network of concentration and extermination camps built and operated by the Third Reich in Polish areas annexed by Nazi Germany during World War II.

"It was the largest of the Nazi concentration camps, consisting of Auschwitz I (the Stammlager or base camp); Auschwitz II–Birkenau (the Vernichtungslager or extermination camp); Auschwitz III–Monowitz, also known as Buna–Monowitz (a labor camp); and 45 satellite camps."

You?

Auschwitz concentration camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was in Auschwitz once. I was stationed near Dachau for 2 years. The Quartermaster laundry was at Dachau and when I was a Private I would be on the laundry detail often. Living 10 miles away you could smell the camp. Inside the camp the stench was overpowering And this was 1958-60, 15 years after the war. Look at some of the pictures and you'll see what caused the smell. Then you can make some of your smarmy comments. Hero.


Dachau Concentration Camp - Liberation April 29,1945 Timeline Dachau

 

[georgephillip]

I've never visited Poland, either:

"Auschwitz concentration camp (German: Konzentrationslager Auschwitz [ˈaʊʃvɪts] ( listen)) was a network of concentration and extermination camps built and operated by the Third Reich in Polish areas annexed by Nazi Germany during World War II.

"It was the largest of the Nazi concentration camps, consisting of Auschwitz I (the Stammlager or base camp); Auschwitz II–Birkenau (the Vernichtungslager or extermination camp); Auschwitz III–Monowitz, also known as Buna–Monowitz (a labor camp); and 45 satellite camps."

You?

Auschwitz concentration camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was in Auschwitz once. I was stationed near Dachau for 2 years. The Quartermaster laundry was at Dachau and when I was a Private I would be on the laundry detail often. Living 10 miles away you could smell the camp. Inside the camp the stench was overpowering And this was 1958-60, 15 years after the war. Look at some of the pictures and you'll see what caused the smell. Then you can make some of your smarmy comments. Hero.


Dachau Concentration Camp - Liberation April 29,1945 Timeline Dachau

"From 1933 to 1945, 206,206 prisoners had been registered at Dachau.

"The total number of dead will never be known.

"Soviet prisoners of war were summarily executed by the thousands, civilians were assigned by the Gestapo to the camp for Sonderbehandlung ('Special Treatment,' a Nazi euphemism which signified 'killing'), and a great many died in evacuation marches and death marches. These deaths were never registered.

"The International Tracing Service in Arolson reports 31,591 dead among the prisoners that were registered.

"The total number of Jews who died at Dachau from 1933 to 1945 was relatively low, probably no more than 5,000. On the day of liberation, some 2,500 of the 32,000 remaining inmates were Jewish. (Avenger)"

So how do Nazi crimes in Poland justify Jewish apartheid in Palestine?

Dachau Concentration Camp - Liberation April 29,1945 Timeline Dachau

 

[Hossfly]

I've never visited Poland, either:

"Auschwitz concentration camp (German: Konzentrationslager Auschwitz [ˈaʊʃvɪts] ( listen)) was a network of concentration and extermination camps built and operated by the Third Reich in Polish areas annexed by Nazi Germany during World War II.

"It was the largest of the Nazi concentration camps, consisting of Auschwitz I (the Stammlager or base camp); Auschwitz II–Birkenau (the Vernichtungslager or extermination camp); Auschwitz III–Monowitz, also known as Buna–Monowitz (a labor camp); and 45 satellite camps."

You?

Auschwitz concentration camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I was in Auschwitz once. I was stationed near Dachau for 2 years. The Quartermaster laundry was at Dachau and when I was a Private I would be on the laundry detail often. Living 10 miles away you could smell the camp. Inside the camp the stench was overpowering And this was 1958-60, 15 years after the war. Look at some of the pictures and you'll see what caused the smell. Then you can make some of your smarmy comments. Hero.


Dachau Concentration Camp - Liberation April 29,1945 Timeline Dachau

"From 1933 to 1945, 206,206 prisoners had been registered at Dachau.

"The total number of dead will never be known.

"Soviet prisoners of war were summarily executed by the thousands, civilians were assigned by the Gestapo to the camp for Sonderbehandlung ('Special Treatment,' a Nazi euphemism which signified 'killing'), and a great many died in evacuation marches and death marches. These deaths were never registered.

"The International Tracing Service in Arolson reports 31,591 dead among the prisoners that were registered.

"The total number of Jews who died at Dachau from 1933 to 1945 was relatively low, probably no more than 5,000. On the day of liberation, some 2,500 of the 32,000 remaining inmates were Jewish. (Avenger)"

So how do Nazi crimes in Poland justify Jewish apartheid in Palestine?

Dachau Concentration Camp - Liberation April 29,1945 Timeline Dachau

No such thing as Israeli apartheid, as you define it.

 

[georgephillip]

I've never visited Poland, either:

"Auschwitz concentration camp (German: Konzentrationslager Auschwitz [ˈaʊʃvɪts] ( listen)) was a network of concentration and extermination camps built and operated by the Third Reich in Polish areas annexed by Nazi Germany during World War II.

"It was the largest of the Nazi concentration camps, consisting of Auschwitz I (the Stammlager or base camp); Auschwitz II–Birkenau (the Vernichtungslager or extermination camp); Auschwitz III–Monowitz, also known as Buna–Monowitz (a labor camp); and 45 satellite camps."

You?

Auschwitz concentration camp - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually, my sisters and brothers-in-law visited Poland and the camps about 3 years ago, including the camp where my dad's family died. I was invited to come, but felt that I couldn't hack it. On the video, it was the only time I saw one of my brothers-in-law cry. My other brother-in-law said that 2 weeks of talk about death was too much for him. All of my nieces and nephews have been to Poland too.

I HAVE been to the Territories though, and it's nothing like the "experts" here, you and Tinny and Sherri who have never been there, describe.

Can you provide a description of what it's like to live under Jewish military occupation in Palestine?
How would Israel's government change if every Arab living under Jewish law was entitled to vote for those who write the laws?

 

[georgephillip]

I was in Auschwitz once. I was stationed near Dachau for 2 years. The Quartermaster laundry was at Dachau and when I was a Private I would be on the laundry detail often. Living 10 miles away you could smell the camp. Inside the camp the stench was overpowering And this was 1958-60, 15 years after the war. Look at some of the pictures and you'll see what caused the smell. Then you can make some of your smarmy comments. Hero.


Dachau Concentration Camp - Liberation April 29,1945 Timeline Dachau

"From 1933 to 1945, 206,206 prisoners had been registered at Dachau.

"The total number of dead will never be known.

"Soviet prisoners of war were summarily executed by the thousands, civilians were assigned by the Gestapo to the camp for Sonderbehandlung ('Special Treatment,' a Nazi euphemism which signified 'killing'), and a great many died in evacuation marches and death marches. These deaths were never registered.

"The International Tracing Service in Arolson reports 31,591 dead among the prisoners that were registered.

"The total number of Jews who died at Dachau from 1933 to 1945 was relatively low, probably no more than 5,000. On the day of liberation, some 2,500 of the 32,000 remaining inmates were Jewish. (Avenger)"

So how do Nazi crimes in Poland justify Jewish apartheid in Palestine?

Dachau Concentration Camp - Liberation April 29,1945 Timeline Dachau

No such thing as Israeli apartheid, as you define it.

What about this definition of apartheid?

"I would like to warn against an unthinking use of this misleading analogy between Israeli policy and that of the defunct apartheid regime in South Africa. It is theoretically false and politically harmful.

"To be sure, the two have many features in common. Both are perniciously racist; both impose a degree of separation between ethnic groups. And this is no accident: both are instances of the genus colonial settler state. Indeed, Israel and apartheid South Africa were, until the latter's demise, the last two surviving active instances of this genus.[1]

"Now Israel is the only remaining one. "

Whites in South Africa needed their "inferior race" as a source of cheap labor.
That's no longer true in Israel, and the Jews' "Final Solution" seems to involve turning every Arabs life into a living hell in order to induce a mass transfer of Palestinians out of Greater Israel. If so, some would call that apartheid, at least.

Is it Apartheid?

 

[Hossfly]

"From 1933 to 1945, 206,206 prisoners had been registered at Dachau.

"The total number of dead will never be known.

"Soviet prisoners of war were summarily executed by the thousands, civilians were assigned by the Gestapo to the camp for Sonderbehandlung ('Special Treatment,' a Nazi euphemism which signified 'killing'), and a great many died in evacuation marches and death marches. These deaths were never registered.

"The International Tracing Service in Arolson reports 31,591 dead among the prisoners that were registered.

"The total number of Jews who died at Dachau from 1933 to 1945 was relatively low, probably no more than 5,000. On the day of liberation, some 2,500 of the 32,000 remaining inmates were Jewish. (Avenger)"

So how do Nazi crimes in Poland justify Jewish apartheid in Palestine?

Dachau Concentration Camp - Liberation April 29,1945 Timeline Dachau

No such thing as Israeli apartheid, as you define it.

What about this definition of apartheid?

"I would like to warn against an unthinking use of this misleading analogy between Israeli policy and that of the defunct apartheid regime in South Africa. It is theoretically false and politically harmful.

"To be sure, the two have many features in common. Both are perniciously racist; both impose a degree of separation between ethnic groups. And this is no accident: both are instances of the genus colonial settler state. Indeed, Israel and apartheid South Africa were, until the latter's demise, the last two surviving active instances of this genus.[1]

"Now Israel is the only remaining one. "

Whites in South Africa needed their "inferior race" as a source of cheap labor.
That's no longer true in Israel, and the Jews' "Final Solution" seems to involve turning every Arabs life into a living hell in order to induce a mass transfer of Palestinians out of Greater Israel. If so, some would call that apartheid, at least.

Is it Apartheid?

Are you back to your "Apartheid" shtick again, Georgie Boy, when Arab journalists say that the Arabs have it much better in Israel than in the other Arab countries? Why not a change and tell us about the Apartheid going on in the Muslim countries. I don't think Georgie Boy actually cares about what is going on in Muslim countries where those non Muslims and even Muslims of different sects are not treated equally. Why should he bother himself with this since no Jews are involved?
Another thing, dude, when you talk about apartheid by Israel and compare it to South African apartheid, you are comparing apples to watermelons. Dictionaries have definitions, but if you want a good look at apartheid, go to the library and check out James Michener's novel "The Covenant". Michener generally uses half a chapter describing things but here it's interspersed throughout the book.

 

[georgephillip]

Homeboy...if your conception of apartheid includes a system of control designed to discriminate on the basis of race or ethnicity maybe you can get out tomorrow and have a few words with the current Custodian of Absentee Property for Israel. I'm pretty sure you've been to Jerusalem, right? While you're there be sure to ask how many Jewish refugees are still being denied the right to land their families owned in Palestine for generations, unless Arab apartheid isn't of any interest to you, that is.

Thanks for the reading tip, but I just picked up my next read yesterday: When General Grant Expelled the Jews
writer by Jonathan D. Sarna.

'Even give a thought to which side of the US Civil War you would've died for?

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Homeboy...if your conception of apartheid includes a system of control designed to discriminate on the basis of race or ethnicity maybe you can get out tomorrow and have a few words with the current Custodian of Absentee Property for Israel. I'm pretty sure you've been to Jerusalem, right? While you're there be sure to ask how many Jewish refugees are still being denied the right to land their families owned in Palestine for generations, unless Arab apartheid isn't of any interest to you, that is.

Thanks for the reading tip, but I just picked up my next read yesterday: When General Grant Expelled the Jews
writer by Jonathan D. Sarna.

'Even give a thought to which side of the US Civil War you would've died for?

Sounds like an interesting book. Jews were expelled even here in America. Nevertheless, if I would've been alive at that time, I'd still be against the Confederacy.

 

[georgephillip]

Homeboy...if your conception of apartheid includes a system of control designed to discriminate on the basis of race or ethnicity maybe you can get out tomorrow and have a few words with the current Custodian of Absentee Property for Israel. I'm pretty sure you've been to Jerusalem, right? While you're there be sure to ask how many Jewish refugees are still being denied the right to land their families owned in Palestine for generations, unless Arab apartheid isn't of any interest to you, that is.

Thanks for the reading tip, but I just picked up my next read yesterday: When General Grant Expelled the Jews
writer by Jonathan D. Sarna.

'Even give a thought to which side of the US Civil War you would've died for?

Sounds like an interesting book. Jews were expelled even here in America. Nevertheless, if I would've been alive at that time, I'd still be against the Confederacy.

Grant must have been drinking when he issued that order. It affected ALL Jews "as a class" including Jews serving in the US Army.

The author of this book seems like someone worth listening to on this subject:

"Dr. Jonathan Sarna is the Joseph H. & Belle R. Braun Professor of American Jewish History at Brandeis University and Chief Historian of the new National Museum of American Jewish History.
Dubbed by the Forward newspaper in 2004 as one of America's fifty most influential American Jews, he was Chief Historian for the 350th commemoration of the American Jewish community, and is recognized as a leading commentator on American Jewish history, religion and life. In 2009, he was elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences"

I agree it would have been impossible for me to support the South in that struggle.
Apparently, there was a movement in the North prior to Fort Sumter that called for letting the Confederacy rot and invading Canada instead.

 

[Hossfly]

Homeboy...if your conception of apartheid includes a system of control designed to discriminate on the basis of race or ethnicity maybe you can get out tomorrow and have a few words with the current Custodian of Absentee Property for Israel. I'm pretty sure you've been to Jerusalem, right? While you're there be sure to ask how many Jewish refugees are still being denied the right to land their families owned in Palestine for generations, unless Arab apartheid isn't of any interest to you, that is.

Thanks for the reading tip, but I just picked up my next read yesterday: When General Grant Expelled the Jews
writer by Jonathan D. Sarna.

'Even give a thought to which side of the US Civil War you would've died for?

Sounds like an interesting book. Jews were expelled even here in America. Nevertheless, if I would've been alive at that time, I'd still be against the Confederacy.

Grant must have been drinking when he issued that order. It affected ALL Jews "as a class" including Jews serving in the US Army.

The author of this book seems like someone worth listening to on this subject:

"Dr. Jonathan Sarna is the Joseph H. & Belle R. Braun Professor of American Jewish History at Brandeis University and Chief Historian of the new National Museum of American Jewish History.
Dubbed by the Forward newspaper in 2004 as one of America's fifty most influential American Jews, he was Chief Historian for the 350th commemoration of the American Jewish community, and is recognized as a leading commentator on American Jewish history, religion and life. In 2009, he was elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences"

I agree it would have been impossible for me to support the South in that struggle.
Apparently, there was a movement in the North prior to Fort Sumter that called for letting the Confederacy rot and invading Canada instead.

Although Grant signed the order and admitted responsibility, he explained what happened during his Presidential campaign. So let it be, George. Forgive and forget.

 

[georgephillip]

Sounds like an interesting book. Jews were expelled even here in America. Nevertheless, if I would've been alive at that time, I'd still be against the Confederacy.

Grant must have been drinking when he issued that order. It affected ALL Jews "as a class" including Jews serving in the US Army.

The author of this book seems like someone worth listening to on this subject:

"Dr. Jonathan Sarna is the Joseph H. & Belle R. Braun Professor of American Jewish History at Brandeis University and Chief Historian of the new National Museum of American Jewish History.
Dubbed by the Forward newspaper in 2004 as one of America's fifty most influential American Jews, he was Chief Historian for the 350th commemoration of the American Jewish community, and is recognized as a leading commentator on American Jewish history, religion and life. In 2009, he was elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences"

I agree it would have been impossible for me to support the South in that struggle.
Apparently, there was a movement in the North prior to Fort Sumter that called for letting the Confederacy rot and invading Canada instead.

Although Grant signed the order and admitted responsibility, he explained what happened during his Presidential campaign. So let it be, George. Forgive and forget.

Good advice, Hoss.
I raised the issue because it's another example in an age-old saga of a small number of unscrupulous Jews engaging in behaviors that gets thousands of innocent Jews evicted from their homes, businesses, and bank accounts (or worse.) I realize every nation has their psychopaths, but I'm a little unclear why Jews pay such a high price for theirs.

 

[toastman]

Grant must have been drinking when he issued that order. It affected ALL Jews "as a class" including Jews serving in the US Army.

The author of this book seems like someone worth listening to on this subject:

"Dr. Jonathan Sarna is the Joseph H. & Belle R. Braun Professor of American Jewish History at Brandeis University and Chief Historian of the new National Museum of American Jewish History.
Dubbed by the Forward newspaper in 2004 as one of America's fifty most influential American Jews, he was Chief Historian for the 350th commemoration of the American Jewish community, and is recognized as a leading commentator on American Jewish history, religion and life. In 2009, he was elected to the American Academy of Arts and Sciences"

I agree it would have been impossible for me to support the South in that struggle.
Apparently, there was a movement in the North prior to Fort Sumter that called for letting the Confederacy rot and invading Canada instead.

Although Grant signed the order and admitted responsibility, he explained what happened during his Presidential campaign. So let it be, George. Forgive and forget.

Good advice, Hoss.
I raised the issue because it's another example in an age-old saga of a small number of unscrupulous Jews engaging in behaviors that gets thousands of innocent Jews evicted from their homes, businesses, and bank accounts (or worse.) I realize every nation has their psychopaths, but I'm a little unclear why Jews pay such a high price for theirs.

Jealousy

 

[georgephillip]

Although Grant signed the order and admitted responsibility, he explained what happened during his Presidential campaign. So let it be, George. Forgive and forget.

Good advice, Hoss.
I raised the issue because it's another example in an age-old saga of a small number of unscrupulous Jews engaging in behaviors that gets thousands of innocent Jews evicted from their homes, businesses, and bank accounts (or worse.) I realize every nation has their psychopaths, but I'm a little unclear why Jews pay such a high price for theirs.

Jealousy

Natural selection

 

[docmauser1]

"She's published stories and articles in CounterPunch, Electronic Intifada, Israel's Occupation Magazine, and The Stanford Magazine, among other publications, and she is a frequent contributor to Mondoweiss."

Oh, she's indeed a prolific driveler.