FEMA Deceives Nation About Twin Towers Core

[Toro]

Purdue uses the FEMA information just like NIST. Both NIST and purdue are dependent on FEMA information that I assert is erroneous, a deception.

Prove or verify, with independent evidence, that FEMA identifies the core that was actually in the center of the towers.

You have no evidence that Purdue is not independent. I have no reason to believe you over the academics at Purdue, or anyone else for that matter.

All you've done is show some pictures of an incomplete structure and your interpretation of what should have happened after the buildings collapsed. That is neither proof nor evidence of anything.

btw, do YOU see the concrete wall he is talking about?

No. I'm not a structural engineer.

Christophera, are you a structural engineer?

 

[Christophera]

You have no evidence that Purdue is not independent. I have no reason to believe you over the academics at Purdue, or anyone else for that matter.

All you've done is show some pictures of an incomplete structure and your interpretation of what should have happened after the buildings collapsed. That is neither proof nor evidence of anything.

btw, do YOU see the concrete wall he is talking about?

No. I'm not a structural engineer.

Christophera, are you a structural engineer?

I work for one, and I take designs of concrete and steel to others from engineering refinement and certification. Mostly retaining walls and a bridge now and then.

Construction workers actually have more experience in materials recognition than many engineers.

I've been a welder for 35 years and a surveyor for 25 years

 

[Toro]

I work for one, and I take designs of concrete and steel to others from engineering refinement and certification. Mostly retaining walls and a bridge now and then.

Construction workers actually have more experience in materials recognition than many engineers.

I've been a welder for 35 years and a surveyor for 25 years

What have the engineers thought about this when you presented it to them?

Also, one of the arguments of the conspiracy theorists is that the buildings could not collapse because steel melts at a higher temperature. If you are correct, wouldn't that make the WTC less stable and more likely to collapse if hit by a plane? After all, if there is no steel core, we don't have to worry about what temperature the steel core melts at, and it would be less stable without a steel core anyways. Would a 110-story building not need a steel core? To a layman, it seems hard to believe that there would not be one.

 

[Paulie]

I work for one, and I take designs of concrete and steel to others from engineering refinement and certification. Mostly retaining walls and a bridge now and then.

Construction workers actually have more experience in materials recognition than many engineers.

I've been a welder for 35 years and a surveyor for 25 years

What have the engineers thought about this when you presented it to them?

Also, one of the arguments of the conspiracy theorists is that the buildings could not collapse because steel melts at a higher temperature. If you are correct, wouldn't that make the WTC less stable and more likely to collapse if hit by a plane? After all, if there is no steel core, we don't have to worry about what temperature the steel core melts at, and it would be less stable without a steel core anyways. Would a 110-story building not need a steel core? To a layman, it seems hard to believe that there would not be one.

I don't think he's worried about what caused the collapse at this point. For him, if his claim is right, that's enough of a reason in itself to warrant a new investigation independent of the government.

Because if they really did lie about that, it sure does open up a whole new line of questions.

I don't see where his case is, though. All I see is pictures of smoke. This case needs to be better laid out for me to understand.

 

[Christophera]

I work for one, and I take designs of concrete and steel to others from engineering refinement and certification. Mostly retaining walls and a bridge now and then.

Construction workers actually have more experience in materials recognition than many engineers.

I've been a welder for 35 years and a surveyor for 25 years

What have the engineers thought about this when you presented it to them?

Also, one of the arguments of the conspiracy theorists is that the buildings could not collapse because steel melts at a higher temperature. If you are correct, wouldn't that make the WTC less stable and more likely to collapse if hit by a plane? After all, if there is no steel core, we don't have to worry about what temperature the steel core melts at, and it would be less stable without a steel core anyways. Would a 110-story building not need a steel core? To a layman, it seems hard to believe that there would not be one.

They knew it was concrete but are scared to say so publically. The one quasi leader of the truth movement who is a strutural engineer or architect refuses to comment on the evidence showing the concrete core and refuses to justify his blind belief in the official story of the structure, or the FEMA core. He does this while making the scanned blueprints from silverstein that the truth movement uses without saying they are very much in question. I can show the scanned blueprints have been digitally altered to appear as final construction drawings. They are obsolete preliminary drawings from 1964 or so.

The reverse. Consider The tacoma narrows bridge was steel. It flexed and collapsed in a 42 MPH wind. It was 1/2 as long as the towers were tall, 1/2 as wide, fastened at both ends and not permanently loaded with 100's of thousands of tons.

Steel in the proportions of the towers flexes too much. The Twins had to survive a 120 mph wind. The steel reinforced cast concrete tubular, rectangular core eliminated torsion and seriously limited sway and for those reason was the only core tht Minoru Yamasaki would certify as safe.

The concrete core keeps the steel structure perfectly aligned so that the huge bearing capacity of the steel structure is realized. Deformations of the perimeter shear walls can cause failures. Floors acting as diaphrams pushed and pulled on the concrete core to keep the shear walls flat.

When NIST was deceived about the true core, the impossibility of collapse in the conditions present was obscured. The cause of death determination was made erroneous before rendered and justice obstructed.

 

[Christophera]

I don't see where his case is, though. All I see is pictures of smoke. This case needs to be better laid out for me to understand.

This from FEMA, depicts structural steel.

This is not structural steel.

It is very simple. The structure FEMA describes did not exist.

 

[DiveCon]

I don't see where his case is, though. All I see is pictures of smoke. This case needs to be better laid out for me to understand.

This from FEMA, depicts structural steel.

This is not structural steel.

this is just an over simplified diagram of the layout

It is very simple. The structure FEMA describes did not exist.

again, this is NOT NEW
what is it we are supposed to be seeing here other than the steel core?

 

[Christophera]

It is very simple. The structure FEMA describes did not exist.
again, this is NOT NEW
what is it we are supposed to be seeing here other than the steel core?

You are mistaken or lying.

you have added NOTHING new

Yes I did. You attempt to misrepresent the fact of what I bring.

The truth movement does not realize, as it is mislead, that FEMA totally decieved NIST in the determination of "cause of death".

If what you assert is true, you will link to some other site showing my information.

If what you assert is true, you will link to a site showing WTC 2 core at 1/2 height.

If what you assert is true, you will link to a site or source that asserts with independently verified evidence that the cause of death determination is invalidated by virtue of NIST using the wrong structural design to analyse "collapse".

Remember, evidence, ........ and reason are needed for justice which protects the Constitution and government by rule of law.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1450302-post44.html

You have never substantiated ANYTHING. You are wrong.

 

[DiveCon]

It is very simple. The structure FEMA describes did not exist.
again, this is NOT NEW
what is it we are supposed to be seeing here other than the steel core?

You are mistaken or lying.

you have added NOTHING new

Yes I did. You attempt to misrepresent the fact of what I bring.

The truth movement does not realize, as it is mislead, that FEMA totally decieved NIST in the determination of "cause of death".

If what you assert is true, you will link to some other site showing my information.

If what you assert is true, you will link to a site showing WTC 2 core at 1/2 height.

If what you assert is true, you will link to a site or source that asserts with independently verified evidence that the cause of death determination is invalidated by virtue of NIST using the wrong structural design to analyse "collapse".

Remember, evidence, ........ and reason are needed for justice which protects the Constitution and government by rule of law.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1450302-post44.html

You have never substantiated ANYTHING. You are wrong.

no, you are wrong
nothing you have posted is "NEW"
its all OLD INFO
even the pics are from 2001 and that video you posted was posted on youtube in 2007
thus NONE OF IT IS NEW
your own links are the proof that they are NOT NEW
you are a huge fucking moron

 

[Christophera]

It is very simple. The structure FEMA describes did not exist.
again, this is NOT NEW
what is it we are supposed to be seeing here other than the steel core?

You are mistaken or lying.

Yes I did. You attempt to misrepresent the fact of what I bring.

The truth movement does not realize, as it is mislead, that FEMA totally decieved NIST in the determination of "cause of death".

If what you assert is true, you will link to some other site showing my information.

If what you assert is true, you will link to a site showing WTC 2 core at 1/2 height.

If what you assert is true, you will link to a site or source that asserts with independently verified evidence that the cause of death determination is invalidated by virtue of NIST using the wrong structural design to analyse "collapse".

Remember, evidence, ........ and reason are needed for justice which protects the Constitution and government by rule of law.

http://www.usmessageboard.com/1450302-post44.html

You have never substantiated ANYTHING. You are wrong.

no, you are wrong
nothing you have posted is "NEW"
its all OLD INFO
even the pics are from 2001 and that video you posted was posted on youtube in 2007
thus NONE OF IT IS NEW
your own links are the proof that they are NOT NEW
you are a huge fucking moron

The information is newly integrated into a factual definition of a deception.

If it were as you want it to be, would you use it to defend the Constittution, .... or, would FEMA be who you will believe despite the fact you have seen no, can find no, evidence they are does not come from the them?

 

[DiveCon]

You are mistaken or lying.



http://www.usmessageboard.com/1450302-post44.html

You have never substantiated ANYTHING. You are wrong.

no, you are wrong
nothing you have posted is "NEW"
its all OLD INFO
even the pics are from 2001 and that video you posted was posted on youtube in 2007
thus NONE OF IT IS NEW
your own links are the proof that they are NOT NEW
you are a huge fucking moron

The information is newly integrated into a factual definition of a deception.

If it were as you want it to be, would you use it to defend the Constittution, .... or, would FEMA be who you will believe despite the fact you have seen no, can find no, evidence they are does not come from the them?

its not a matter of believing FEMA or not
its a matter of facts
the twin towes used the FACT that they only had steel core and steel on the outer shell as a selling point for the buildings
it kept the weight of the building down while providing structural strength in a new way
they were marvels of modern construction when they were built

 

[Christophera]

no, you are wrong
nothing you have posted is "NEW"
its all OLD INFO
even the pics are from 2001 and that video you posted was posted on youtube in 2007
thus NONE OF IT IS NEW
your own links are the proof that they are NOT NEW
you are a huge fucking moron

The information is newly integrated into a factual definition of a deception.

If it were as you want it to be, would you use it to defend the Constittution, .... or, would FEMA be who you will believe despite the fact you have seen no, can find no, evidence they are does not come from the them?

its not a matter of believing FEMA or not
its a matter of facts
the twin towes used the FACT that they only had steel core and steel on the outer shell as a selling point for the buildings

All you need to do is substantiate what you call fact. I've already shown independently verified evidence of the concrete core and no one has posted any such for the FEMA steel core columns.

You are not backing up anything with substance and instead serving the iinterest of secret methods of mass murder. Recall, 3,000 died in 20 seconds as 2 towers went nearly identically to the ground.

it kept the weight of the building down while providing structural strength in a new way
they were marvels of modern construction when they were built

We have no reason or evidence to support what you say.

AND, you have not mentioned the Constitution and if you will use evidence and reason to protect it.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

FEMA decieved NIST about the structural design of the Twin Towers core. Accordingly, the "cause of death" in 3,000 murders is invaildated.

The supposed 47 steel core columns did not exists and are never seen on 9-11 in the core area. Construction photos are use to misrepresent the elevator guide rail support steel as "core columns".

Elevator guide rail support steel is easily identified by the "butt plate" used to join the support steel together and accomodate shifting and tiltin the new section to provide perfect plumb alignment for the elevator guide rail.

Left and right of the central crane are support steel with butt plates in the core area at the 5th floor.

Are there enough people here to support 15 posts before I can post evidence?

Why do you think arab muslims are so stupid?

Do you think they are inferior?

so you refute the truth?

http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/general/2008/08/2008827114626962374.html
In April 2002, Al Jazeera reporter Yosri Fouda conducted the first and only interview with the two main planners of the September 11 attacks.

Fouda was blindfolded and taken to a hideaway in Karachi, Pakistan where he met Khaled Sheikh Mohamad and Ramzi bin al-Shibh.

In the interview he obtained the first full admission by al-Qaeda that they had carried out the 9/11 attacks.

Through exclusive information from that interview, Al Jazeera was able to track the movements of the hijackers as they prepared for their mission - making apparent the extent of the US' failure to detect and prevent what al-Qaeda called its 'planes operation'.

From a high-level al-Qaeda summit held in Kuala Lumpar in 2000 to intelligence disregarded by both American and European security services proving an attack was imminent, Fouda's investigation makes clear that there was a litany of astonishing mistakes by the CIA in the run-up to the September 11 attacks.

In Plain Sight is an extraordinary account of the cover-up and complicity of US intelligence in the run-up to 9/11 - with exclusive footage of the hijackers preparing for their suicide mission.



In Plain Sight originally aired from September 19, 2007

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

The information is newly integrated into a factual definition of a deception.

If it were as you want it to be, would you use it to defend the Constittution, .... or, would FEMA be who you will believe despite the fact you have seen no, can find no, evidence they are does not come from the them?

its not a matter of believing FEMA or not
its a matter of facts
the twin towes used the FACT that they only had steel core and steel on the outer shell as a selling point for the buildings

All you need to do is substantiate what you call fact. I've already shown independently verified evidence of the concrete core and no one has posted any such for the FEMA steel core columns.

You are not backing up anything with substance and instead serving the iinterest of secret methods of mass murder. Recall, 3,000 died in 20 seconds as 2 towers went nearly identically to the ground.

it kept the weight of the building down while providing structural strength in a new way
they were marvels of modern construction when they were built

We have no reason or evidence to support what you say.

AND, you have not mentioned the Constitution and if you will use evidence and reason to protect it.

there are no secrets here.Fouda of AL Jezeera interviewed the people who planned and carried out the attacks on the WTC, Pentagon and more. Those terrorists did it on their own with no help from any secret agency. you are nuts.

 

[rdean]

Imagine this. You take a glass and freeze it. Not dip just the end into hot water. Snap!

That's what brought the towers down. Some areas were at room temperature, others at 600 to 800 degrees. The areas of intense heat brought about by 30,000 liters of jet fuel, caused the building to "buckle" between areas of low temperature and super high temperature. It's like the most basic physics and so easy to reproduce with stuff in your kitchen.

So often, the simplest explanation is the correct one.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Imagine this. You take a glass and freeze it. Not dip just the end into hot water. Snap!

That's what brought the towers down. Some areas were at room temperature, others at 600 to 800 degrees. The areas of intense heat brought about by 30,000 liters of jet fuel, caused the building to "buckle" between areas of low temperature and super high temperature. It's like the most basic physics and so easy to reproduce with stuff in your kitchen.

So often, the simplest explanation is the correct one.

Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Popular Mechanics

I know, I know, it's all part of the conspiracy and if we all only knew that Popular
Mechanics is really a secret weapon of the secret agencies within the US government...

To investigate 16 of the most prevalent claims made by conspiracy theorists, POPULAR MECHANICS assembled a team of nine researchers and reporters who, together with PM editors, consulted more than 70 professionals in fields that form the core content of this magazine, including aviation, engineering and the military.

In the end, we were able to debunk each of these assertions with hard evidence and a healthy dose of common sense. We learned that a few theories are based on something as innocent as a reporting error on that chaotic day. Others are the byproducts of cynical imaginations that aim to inject suspicion and animosity into public debate. Only by confronting such poisonous claims with irrefutable facts can we understand what really happened on a day that is forever seared into world history.

Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - Popular Mechanics

 

[Toro]

FEMA decieved NIST about the structural design of the Twin Towers core. Accordingly, the "cause of death" in 3,000 murders is invaildated.

The supposed 47 steel core columns did not exists and are never seen on 9-11 in the core area. Construction photos are use to misrepresent the elevator guide rail support steel as "core columns".

Elevator guide rail support steel is easily identified by the "butt plate" used to join the support steel together and accomodate shifting and tiltin the new section to provide perfect plumb alignment for the elevator guide rail.

Left and right of the central crane are support steel with butt plates in the core area at the 5th floor.

Are there enough people here to support 15 posts before I can post evidence?

Why do you think arab muslims are so stupid?

Do you think they are inferior?

so you refute the truth?

http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/general/2008/08/2008827114626962374.html
In April 2002, Al Jazeera reporter Yosri Fouda conducted the first and only interview with the two main planners of the September 11 attacks.

Fouda was blindfolded and taken to a hideaway in Karachi, Pakistan where he met Khaled Sheikh Mohamad and Ramzi bin al-Shibh.

In the interview he obtained the first full admission by al-Qaeda that they had carried out the 9/11 attacks.

Through exclusive information from that interview, Al Jazeera was able to track the movements of the hijackers as they prepared for their mission - making apparent the extent of the US' failure to detect and prevent what al-Qaeda called its 'planes operation'.

From a high-level al-Qaeda summit held in Kuala Lumpar in 2000 to intelligence disregarded by both American and European security services proving an attack was imminent, Fouda's investigation makes clear that there was a litany of astonishing mistakes by the CIA in the run-up to the September 11 attacks.

In Plain Sight is an extraordinary account of the cover-up and complicity of US intelligence in the run-up to 9/11 - with exclusive footage of the hijackers preparing for their suicide mission.



In Plain Sight originally aired from September 19, 2007

I re-read Christophera's post.

Even if he is right, the cause of death is not invalidated. The cause of death was the collapse of buildings caused by planes slamming into them. How the buildings were constructed does not change the fact that 19 terrorists planned acts of war and carried them out against the United States, causing the deaths of thousands.

 

[Christophera]

Imagine this. You take a glass and freeze it. Not dip just the end into hot water. Snap!

That's what brought the towers down. Some areas were at room temperature, others at 600 to 800 degrees. The areas of intense heat brought about by 30,000 liters of jet fuel, caused the building to "buckle" between areas of low temperature and super high temperature. It's like the most basic physics and so easy to reproduce with stuff in your kitchen.

So often, the simplest explanation is the correct one.

This is not a thread about what happened or how it happened. This is a thread about a simple deception by FEMA of the agency conducting an analysis of a structure that was supposed to have collapsed.

The deception invalidates the analysis.

 

[Christophera]

I re-read Christophera's post.

Even if he is right, the cause of death is not invalidated. The cause of death was the collapse of buildings caused by planes slamming into them. How the buildings were constructed does not change the fact that 19 terrorists planned acts of war and carried them out against the United States, causing the deaths of thousands.

If the analysis of the building that was thought to have collapsed was based on erroneous structural information, the analysis is rendered invalid. That is very simple and very reasonable, a 7th grader could tell you that.

In which case, airplanes may have nothing to do with it.

Still, if the analysis is invalid it must be re done. Officially, the only lawful first move is to become complaint to due process and conduct a limited inquiry to determine IF there was a deception, if so, then re analysis is the next step to comply with due process.

 

[KittenKoder]

I didn't bother with this before, because it just seems too stupid to be a real argument ... but why the hell would FEMA be a concern here in the first fucking place?