"Fingerprint" of Greenland ice melt seen in satellite sea level data

[ding]

it isn't on the surface?

Walk me through it. Give me an example. Explain how an object radiates heat. Walk me through the path to the surface.

 

[ding]

I think the important point here is the conservation of energy.

Which is why there were incrementally less infrared heat at six solar farms after PV cells were installed. Photons which would have produced heat were converted into electricity.

As for waste heat from electricity usage it is conserved. But not all of that energy from electricity usage produces heat. A good portion performs work that does not produce heat beyond friction. As for what heat is radiated, it’s being radiated in all directions. So the most anyone can say is that it heats the surrounding air and is quickly dissipated thus there is no heating of the surface like photons do which literally strike the surface and produce heat on the surface.

 

[ding]

it seems you are suggesting that the heat goes where?

First of all not all electricity usage produces heat. Electricity is used to perform work which must be accounted for in the conservation of energy. Take an elevator for example. 90% of the electricity consumed is consumed doing work. The remaining 10% would be lost at mechanical interfaces due to friction. None of those loses are heating the surface of the planet.

 

[jc456]

Walk me through it. Give me an example. Explain how an object radiates heat. Walk me through the path to the surface.

Why, where do you think waste heat goes?

 

[ding]

Why, where do you think waste heat goes?

Mostly the air where it quickly dissipated and has no effect on the surface temperature like photons striking it do.

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that electricity usage that performs work only produces a small amount of heat (friction) relative to the energy used to perform work?

 

[ding]

Why, where do you think waste heat goes?

How much waste heat is there in using an overhead crane versus the energy used by the overhead crane to perform work. You do know how work is defined, right? You do realize that electricity used to perform work doesn’t produce heat other than friction, right?

 

[jc456]

Mostly the air where it quickly dissipated and has no effect on the surface temperature like photons striking it do.

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that electricity usage that performs work only produces a small amount of heat (friction) relative to the energy used to perform work?

So surface air isn't at the surface?

 

[Crick]

You do realize that electricity used to perform work doesn’t produce heat other than friction, right?

Really? I suggest you talk to your stove.

 

[jc456]

How much waste heat is there in using an overhead crane versus the energy used by the overhead crane to perform work. You do know how work is defined, right? You do realize that electricity used to perform work doesn’t produce heat other than friction, right?

If I'm using a vacuum, the vacuum creates heat while in use? my fridge does as well, as does my stove, my freezers, my drills. Why do you think no heat is produced while using motors? Have you ever touched a screw removed from wood before? It leaves a scar from the heat. friction, ever hear of it? How about incandescent lights?

 

[jc456]

Really? I suggest you talk to your stove.

damn, I've thanked you twice now.

 

[ReinyDays]

But is the heat generated enough to make any difference, long term (Greater than 24 hours) if it stopped?

If the motor stops, the solar panel stops too ...

Does it make any difference? ... well ... 120 VAC single phase at 12 amps is 1500 W, about half a decent electric space heater ... but that's 7-1/2 sq meters of solar panel on a perfect day ... at noon ... you'll be washing your clothes by hand on cloudy days ... the motors that open and close the doors on NASA's Vehicle Assembly Building would get hot enough to melt tungston if they didn't employ heat sinks ... which sinks the heat to Earth ...

That's renewable's dirty secret ... if implemented, everybody will have to do things by hand ... and learn how to walk ... and eat veggies ... enough to make a man don a dress and lipstick ...

Dogs marrying cats ...

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You know that entropy cools things, right? And that by removing the energy to keep it warm, it will cool, right? IF you place a solar panel in the way of the photons the surface below will cool, right? The heat generated from the panels above an object must be much hotter to be able to warm the surface below it through LWIR propagation.

Come on Todd... this is basic thermodynamics... You're playing stupid...

IF you place a solar panel in the way of the photons the surface below will cool, right?

Yes, shading the ground cools the ground. And?

The heat generated from the panels above an object must be much hotter to be able to warm the surface below it through LWIR propagation.

I don't care how hot or cool the ground is under the panels.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You know that entropy cools things, right?

Entropy cools everything? Are you sure?

 

[Crick]

That is only half of the equation. And you know it. Entropy is the other half. How long does the heat reside?

Are you under the impression that changes in entropy are somehow independent of the conservation of energy? And your comment elsewhere that entropy cools things. Good fucking grief. That's like saying inches make things different colors.

 

[Crick]

You know that entropy cools things, right? And that by removing the energy to keep it warm, it will cool, right? IF you place a solar panel in the way of the photons the surface below will cool, right? The heat generated from the panels above an object must be much hotter to be able to warm the surface below it through LWIR propagation.

Come on Todd... this is basic thermodynamics... You're playing stupid...

"Basic thermodynamics" ! ? ! ? ! You've never seen the inside of a thermo classroom IN YOUR LIFE.

 

[ReinyDays]

"Basic thermodynamics" ! ? ! ? ! You've never seen the inside of a thermo classroom IN YOUR LIFE.

Obviously ... neither have you ... Billy_Bob is correct when we use the kinetic energy definition of temperature (i.e. the macroscopic statements of thermodynamics) ... which we do in the Atmospheric Sciences ...

Your problem is you're a liar and you expect everyone else to be a liar ... so you can't see truth ever ... sad little liar boy ...

 

[Crick]

Obviously ... neither have you ... Billy_Bob is correct when we use the kinetic energy definition of temperature (i.e. the macroscopic statements of thermodynamics) ... which we do in the Atmospheric Sciences ...

Your problem is you're a liar and you expect everyone else to be a liar ... so you can't see truth ever ... sad little liar boy ...

So, you also believe that entropy cools things? That entropy and the conservation of energy are independent... processes? And you believe kinetic energy thermodynamics and macroscopic thermodynamics are the same thing? I'm afraid all of that puts you out in the hall with Billy Boy and his magical PhD.

 

[Billy_Bob]

So, you also believe that entropy cools things? That entropy and the conservation of energy are independent... processes? And you believe kinetic energy thermodynamics and macroscopic thermodynamics are the same thing? I'm afraid all of that puts you out in the hall with Billy Boy and his magical PhD.

Crick... Entropy is the loss of energy... What happens when an object loses energy? You really do not understand basic thermodynamic principals.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Crick... Entropy is the loss of energy... What happens when an object loses energy? You really do not understand basic thermodynamic principals.

Entropy is the loss of energy..

Can you back up this claim?

 

[Crick]

Crick... Entropy is the loss of energy... What happens when an object loses energy? You really do not understand basic thermodynamic principals.

Entropy is a MEASURE of the order of a system and thus can indicate how much energy is available for work, but you can alter the entropy of a system without touching the total energy. It is YOU who do not understand basic thermodynamic principles. Entropy is a quantity, not a process.