"Fingerprint" of Greenland ice melt seen in satellite sea level data

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What percentage of the total electricity (electric crane.....LOL!) used is stored in the potential energy of the beam lifted above the ground?

Make up some numbers.

 

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Why do you keep altering your original (didn't mention fossil fuels) claim?

Is it because you can't defend the original?

My claim has been the same since day 1.

Why do you keep arguing about something I never claimed?

 

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For the love of God can someone please tell me how using an electric overhead crane heats the surface of the planet like photons do?

 

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Because Todd sure can’t.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Make up some numbers.

It's your point........

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

My claim has been the same since day 1.

Why do you keep arguing about something I never claimed?

Your claim involved solar energy turned into non-heating electricity.

Wrong from the start.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

For the love of God can someone please tell me how using an electric overhead crane heats the surface of the planet like photons do?

Some of the electricity heats the transmission cable.
Most of the rest is turned into heat running the crane.
A tiny amount is stored as potential energy in the raised beams.

A wash....except for the extra 35% of solar energy retained as heat by the panel.

 

[ding]

It's your point........

No. It’s your point. You were the one who claimed waste heat from electricity usage heated the surface of the planet just like solar radiation does.

I don’t believe it does and have asked you to explain how it does. I gave you the overhead crane to use as an example.

So according to you using an overhead crane heats the surface of the planet. Can you explain how it does that?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No. It’s your point. You were the one who claimed waste heat from electricity usage heated the surface of the planet just like solar radiation does.

I don’t believe it does and have asked you to explain how it does. I gave you the overhead crane to use as an example.

So according to you using an overhead crane heats the surface of the planet. Can you explain how it does that?

You aren't claiming that using an overhead crane results in a cooler planet?

 

[ding]

Your claim involved solar energy turned into non-heating electricity.

Wrong from the start.

No. My claim is that the widespread use of solar power is a bad idea in the middle of an ice age because converting photons into electricity reduces the effective solar radiation the earth receives.

You were the one to argue that when the electricity is used it heats the surface of the planet so it’s a wash.

I argued that a large portion of electricity usage is used to perform work and the amount of energy used to perform that work must be subtracted from the total and that only the friction created from doing that work created heat. Furthermore what heat that is created from electricity usage doesn’t heat the surface of the planet. It heats the surrounding air. And what heat that is close to the surface doesn’t heat the surface like photons do. It radiates in all directions. So a good portion of that heat does not heat the surface of the planet.

And lastly I argued that even if waste heat from electricity usage heated the surface in exactly the same way as photons do that there would still be an incremental cooling effect because the waste heat is the same in both cases. Replacing fossil fuels with solar does not increase the amount of waste heat generated. But the generation of electricity effectively reduces the incoming solar radiation by converting photons into electricity that would have otherwise produced heat.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

No. My claim is that the widespread use of solar power is a bad idea in the middle of an ice age because converting photons into electricity reduces the effective solar radiation the earth receives.

You were the one to argue that when the electricity is used it heats the surface of the planet so it’s a wash.

I argued that a large portion of electricity usage is used to perform work and the amount of energy used to perform that work must be subtracted from the total and that only the friction created from doing that work created heat. Furthermore what heat that is created from electricity usage doesn’t heat the surface of the planet. It heats the surrounding air. And what heat that is close to the surface doesn’t heat the surface like photons do. It radiates in all directions. So a good portion of that heat does not heat the surface of the planet.

And lastly I argued that even if waste heat from electricity usage heated the surface in exactly the same way as photons do that there would still be an incremental cooling effect because the waste heat is the same in both cases. Replacing fossil fuels with solar does not increase the amount of waste heat generated. But the generation of electricity effectively reduces the incoming solar radiation by converting photons into electricity that would have otherwise produced heat.

My claim is that the widespread use of solar power is a bad idea in the middle of an ice age because converting photons into electricity reduces the effective solar radiation the earth receives

Moving the energy of those photons from one spot to another isn't a reduction of effective solar radiation.

You were the one to argue that when the electricity is used it heats the surface of the planet so it’s a wash.

If you want to argue that using the electricity doesn't result in heat.........

I argued that a large portion of electricity usage is used to perform work and the amount of energy used to perform that work must be subtracted from the total

A large fraction? Show me.

Furthermore what heat that is created from electricity usage doesn’t heat the surface of the planet. It heats the surrounding air.

Solar is going to trigger glacial advancement because the waste heat warms the air instead of the surface?

the generation of electricity effectively reduces the incoming solar radiation by converting photons into electricity that would have otherwise produced heat.

95% of the incoming radiation retained produces more heat than only 60% being retained would.

 

[flan327]

Greenland had massive ice gain this year.

​

The mass gain this year was about 100 billion tons above the 1981-2010 average, with most of the excess occurring at lower elevations.​

End Of Summer Greenland Report | Real Climate Science

realclimatescience.com

I don’t believe you

 

[flan327]

For the love of God can someone please tell me how using an electric overhead crane heats the surface of the planet like photons do?

There is no “God”

 

[ding]

Moving the energy of those photons from one spot to another isn't a reduction of effective solar radiation.

a large portion of electricity usage is used to perform work and the amount of energy used to perform that work must be subtracted from the total and that only the friction created from doing that work created heat. Furthermore what heat that is created from electricity usage doesn’t heat the surface of the planet. It heats the surrounding air. And what heat that is close to the surface doesn’t heat the surface like photons do. It radiates in all directions. So a good portion of that heat does not heat the surface of the planet.

 

[ding]

If you want to argue that using the electricity doesn't result in heat.........

a large portion of electricity usage is used to perform work and the amount of energy used to perform that work must be subtracted from the total and that only the friction created from doing that work created heat. Furthermore what heat that is created from electricity usage doesn’t heat the surface of the planet. It heats the surrounding air. And what heat that is close to the surface doesn’t heat the surface like photons do. It radiates in all directions. So a good portion of that heat does not heat the surface of the planet.

 

[ding]

A large fraction? Show me.

a large portion of electricity usage is used to perform work and the amount of energy used to perform that work must be subtracted from the total and that only the friction created from doing that work created heat. Furthermore what heat that is created from electricity usage doesn’t heat the surface of the planet. It heats the surrounding air. And what heat that is close to the surface doesn’t heat the surface like photons do. It radiates in all directions. So a good portion of that heat does not heat the surface of the planet.

 

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Solar is going to trigger glacial advancement because the waste heat warms the air instead of the surface?

It would be idiotic to believe covering 4 to 8% of the land surface area with PV cells which convert photons- which would have otherwise produced heat - has no effect on the planet’s climate.

 

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95% of the incoming radiation retained produces more heat than only 60% being retained would.

Incorrect. Incrementally cooler temperatures were measured at six solar farms after PV cells were installed.

Your belief that all waste heat from electricity usage heats the surface of the planet like solar radiation does is incorrect. a large portion of electricity usage is used to perform work and the amount of energy used to perform that work must be subtracted from the total and that only the friction created from doing that work created heat. Furthermore what heat that is created from electricity usage doesn’t heat the surface of the planet like solar radiation does. It heats the surrounding air. And what heat that is close to the surface doesn’t heat the surface like photons do. It radiates in all directions. So a good portion of that heat does not heat the surface of the planet.

Even if waste heat from electricity usage heated the surface in exactly the same way as photons do that there would still be an incremental cooling effect because the waste heat is the same in both cases. Replacing fossil fuels with solar does not increase the amount of waste heat generated. But the generation of electricity effectively reduces the incoming solar radiation by converting photons into electricity that would have otherwise produced heat.

 

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Toddsterpatriot believes that waste heat from using an electric overhead crane heats the surface of the planet but can’t explain how.

 

[ding]

For the love of God can someone please tell me how using an electric overhead crane heats the surface of the planet like photons do?