Finland sees temperatures rise.

[Saigon]

Westwall -

Here it is...complete wiith photo essay...

Climate change is dramatically altering the Swiss Alps, where hundreds of bodies of water are being created by melting glaciers. Though the lakes can attract tourists and even generate electricity, local residents also fear catastrophic tidal waves.

Melting Glaciers Turning Alps into Lake Region - SPIEGEL ONLINE

 

[whitehall]

5 inches of snow in Colorado in May. Maybe what goes around really comes around and liberal warmers are just playing with themselves.

 

[Saigon]

5 inches of snow in Colorado in May. Maybe what goes around really comes around and liberal warmers are just playing with themselves.

Well, firstly, you probably will receive more snow as the climate changes, because increased humidity at low temperatures will mean more snow. It's counter-intuitive, I know, but snow is formed by moisture - not cold alone.

Secondly, glaciers aren't conservative or liberal. They don't grow or retreat because of what any politician says.

I suggest you forget the politics and look at what is actually happening with glaciers right now, today, and then base your opinions on that - not on what any politician says.

 

[Katzndogz]

The glaciers in the Swiss Alps have been subject to multicentury fluctuations for millions of years.

http://www.climate.unibe.ch/~stocker/papers/joerin06hol.pdf

This is like what happens when we have a few hot days. It's global warming! Then it gets cold. It's climate change.

It was only a few months ago that global warming was going to cause the Mississippi River to dry up. Then it rained, now Old Miss is overflowing.

Are glaciers growing or shrinking? Some are growing and some are shrinking. Just like they always have. In Italy it is so cold, that the snow on Presena Glacier didn't all melt, giving them a head start on ski season.
List of expanding glaciers

 

[westwall]

Westwall -

Here it is...complete wiith photo essay...

Climate change is dramatically altering the Swiss Alps, where hundreds of bodies of water are being created by melting glaciers. Though the lakes can attract tourists and even generate electricity, local residents also fear catastrophic tidal waves.

Melting Glaciers Turning Alps into Lake Region - SPIEGEL ONLINE

I see. They are forced to trot out stories from 5 years ago, and the major alarming thingy happened 12 years ago. Nice to see they stay current.....

 

[Saigon]

The glaciers in the Swiss Alps have been subject to multicentury fluctuations for millions of years.

Yes, of course - but if you actually do a little reading and get up to speed on the issue, you'll probably also start to wonder why almost all of the worlds glaciers are retreating. In Alaska, South America, Europe, New Zealand and Asia. You might also wonder why the rate of retreat is accelerating so much.

It really is worth setting the politics to one side and asking yourself if it is normal that 1% of glaciers grow and 97% retreat?


Westwall -

I hadn't expected an intelligent response from you - just the usual backflips and diversions.

 

[westwall]

5 inches of snow in Colorado in May. Maybe what goes around really comes around and liberal warmers are just playing with themselves.

Well, firstly, you probably will receive more snow as the climate changes, because increased humidity at low temperatures will mean more snow. It's counter-intuitive, I know, but snow is formed by moisture - not cold alone.

Secondly, glaciers aren't conservative or liberal. They don't grow or retreat because of what any politician says.

I suggest you forget the politics and look at what is actually happening with glaciers right now, today, and then base your opinions on that - not on what any politician says.

Yes, you really must explain how global warming actually makes it colder. Snow requires cold to form the last time I checked. Warmer air certainly holds more water, the RT of water vapour being 9 days I am curious how it sticks around long enough to become snow....and then there's that problem of it being so damned cold of course.

I think your "theory" has some holes in it. Warmer temps mean more RAIN...not more snow. But you allready knew that...didn't you Peter...

 

[westwall]

The glaciers in the Swiss Alps have been subject to multicentury fluctuations for millions of years.

Yes, of course - but if you actually do a little reading and get up to speed on the issue, you'll probably also start to wonder why almost all of the worlds glaciers are retreating. In Alaska, South America, Europe, New Zealand and Asia. You might also wonder why the rate of retreat is accelerating so much.

It really is worth setting the politics to one side and asking yourself if it is normal that 1% of glaciers grow and 97% retreat?


Westwall -

I hadn't expected an intelligent response from you - just the usual backflips and diversions.

The rate of alpine glacier loss is significantly lower than it was in the late 1880's. And you should ask yourself why some alpine glaciers are growing. According to your meme that should be impossible.....and yet it's happening.

What backflip preytell? A scientist uses ALL AVAILABLE DATA. They don't pick and choose that which only supports their theory. That's called scientific fraud...but you allready knew that too didn't you Lysenko...

 

[Saigon]

Westwall -

Yes, you really must explain how global warming actually makes it colder.

Remember when you claimed to be a science teacher?

I tell you what - you go and check how and when snow forms, and if you can't figure it out, come back and I'll explain it.

Honestly, it just takes my breath away to think that any educated adult did not know snow required humidity to form...what did you think snow was made of?!

And you should ask yourself why some alpine glaciers are growing.

Yes - as I just explained - 1% are growing. And 97% are retreating.

They don't pick and choose that which only supports their theory.

No experts don't - but clearly you do, because here you cite the 1% of glaciers that are growing as evidence of a trend. I'm more interested in what happens with the 97% of glaciers than the 1%.

 

[westwall]

Westwall -

Yes, you really must explain how global warming actually makes it colder.

Remember when you claimed to be a science teacher?

I tell you what - you go and check how and when snow forms, and if you can't figure it out, come back and I'll explain it.

And you should ask yourself why some alpine glaciers are growing.

Yes - as I just explained - 1% are growing. And 97% are retreating.

You consider it normal - experts do not.

Yes you guys love to trot out that 97% figure. As far as snow goes, I know how it is formed. You tell me, in a warmer world, what is going to be formed snow or rain? This is not a trick question.

 

[Saigon]

Westwall -

As far as snow goes, I know how it is formed

Clearly you don't.

You tell me, in a warmer world, what is going to be formed snow or rain?

In temperatures above 0C - rain. In temperatures below 0C - snow.

So in large swathes of the world, there will be more snow, because it will be more humid, but with temperatures still below 0C.

This link explains how snow forms: http://www.theweatherprediction.com/habyhints/222/

And of course you will now pretend you knew this.

 

[Katzndogz]

The glaciers in the Swiss Alps have been subject to multicentury fluctuations for millions of years.

Yes, of course - but if you actually do a little reading and get up to speed on the issue, you'll probably also start to wonder why almost all of the worlds glaciers are retreating. In Alaska, South America, Europe, New Zealand and Asia. You might also wonder why the rate of retreat is accelerating so much.

It really is worth setting the politics to one side and asking yourself if it is normal that 1% of glaciers grow and 97% retreat?


Westwall -

I hadn't expected an intelligent response from you - just the usual backflips and diversions.

I posted a link to the list of glaciers that are expanding. You read ONLY what suited your purpose. In New Zealand ALONE, the glaciers started retreating in 1850. This indicates the reason being a fluctuation rather than global warming.

During the Medieval Warm Period, it was much warmer than it is today. It was that warming that melted the ice enough to allow the Vikings to range past their own lands. This period is connected not to man's activity, but to solar fluctuations.

Blaming global warming makes as much sense as sacrificing a virgin to insure a good rainfall.

 

[Saigon]

The rate of alpine glacier loss is significantly lower than it was in the late 1880's.

Um....no it isn't genius. My word.....you don't get much right, do you?

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[/IMG]

http://www.skepticalscience.com/himalayan-glaciers-growing-intermediate.htm

more info at: http://www.nichols.edu/departments/glacier/glacier_retreat.htm

 

[Saigon]

Katz -

I posted a link to the list of glaciers that are expanding.

1% of glaciers are expanding.

97% of glaciers are retreating.

Now, which figure do you think is more significant?

Please look at the graph posted in #53 so that you can get up to speed.

 

[Katzndogz]

These are natural occurrences caused by natural fluctuations. You are a primitive, sacrificing goats to the Rain God.

 

[Saigon]

Westwall & Katz -

Here is a rundown of what is happening, glacier by glacier.

[/URL] Uploaded with ImageShack.us[/IMG]

http://www.skepticalscience.com/himalayan-glaciers-growing-intermediate.htm

 

[Saigon]

These are natural occurrences caused by natural fluctuations. You are a primitive, sacrificing goats to the Rain God.

Firstly, do you now understand that 97% of glaciers are retreating?

Secondly, can you tell us when this last occured on earth?

 

[westwall]

Westwall -

As far as snow goes, I know how it is formed

Clearly you don't.

You tell me, in a warmer world, what is going to be formed snow or rain?

In temperatures above 0C - rain. In temperatures below 0C - snow.

So in large swathes of the world, there will be more snow, because it will be more humid, but with temperatures still below 0C.

This link explains how snow forms: CAN IT BE TOO COLD TO SNOW?

And of course you will now pretend you knew this.

Why will large areas still be below 0C? In the past whenever it has been warmer,there truly has been less snow. What makes the current (now passed) warming different? Huge geographic areas were devoid of snow that usually got it.

Now we are seeing more snow, later into spring, in more areas, than has been seen since the global cooling scare of the '70's. Your "theory" sucks on many levels. Storm occur where warm and cold fronts meet. If the world was truly warming as is claimed the result would be rain like is seen in the equatorial regions.

But no, we are seeing ever colder springs, arriving ever later, and this will continue until even fanatics like you are forced to admit that cold really does mean cold. Not this twisted logic construct where colder somehow means warmer. Only in the mind of a fanatic is that possible.

 

[westwall]

These are natural occurrences caused by natural fluctuations. You are a primitive, sacrificing goats to the Rain God.

Firstly, do you now understand that 97% of glaciers are retreating?

Secondly, can you tell us when this last occured on earth?

No, I don't agree that 97% of anything is happening. As for when was the last time this happened, it was in the late 1880's when the glacier retreat was orders of magnitude greater than it is today. All when CO2 levels were "safe".

 

[Saigon]

Westwall -

Why will large areas still be below 0C?

If you had read the information that you spent a week angrily insisting that I post, you would know.

Large parts of Finland have an average winter temperature of around -6C.

So if the temperature increases by 1C, the average winter temperature will be -5C.

That means more snow in winter, not more rain.

it was in the late 1880's when the glacier retreat was orders of magnitude greater than it is today.

See post #53 - your claim is nonsense.