Finland sees temperatures rise.

[westwall]

Westwall & Katz -

Here is a rundown of what is happening, glacier by glacier.

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Where is the source for that graph...

 

[westwall]

The rate of alpine glacier loss is significantly lower than it was in the late 1880's.

Um....no it isn't genius. My word.....you don't get much right, do you?

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What is the source for that little bit of silliness.... The map below is very accurate for that region...and is indicative for the rest of the northern hemisphere based on other studies.

 

[Saigon]

Westwall -

I kmow this is difficult for you to understand - but looking at one glacier or even one group of glaciers does not provide much information. It is called cherry picking.

I have already posted information which shows global trends in glaciers, so that we can see what is happening worlwide - not just in one tiny area.

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This is an excellent resource, btw:

http://www.nichols.edu/departments/glacier/glacier_retreat.htm


(I've added in the links, sources, and also an excellent source of additional info for you to ignore).

 

[westwall]

Westwall -

I kmow this is difficult for you to understand - but looking at one glacier or even one group of glaciers does not provide much information. It is called cherry picking.

I have already posted information which shows global trends in glaciers, so that we can see what is happening worlwide - not just in one tiny area.

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This is an excellent resource, btw:

Global glacier retreat


(I've added in the links, sources, and also an excellent source of additional info for you to ignore).

Actually I do know how to do research. Clearly you don't. This is from YOUR source....

"From 2002-2010, continuous data is available for only 7 glaciers in the southern hemisphere and 76 glaciers in the Northern Hemisphere."

What was that about cherry picking? Their (and yours) meme only works when you limit the source material and here it is laid out for you. They make their claim based on 84 glaciers worldwide. Seeing's how there are over 10,000 glaciers in Alaska alone, the cherry picking seems to be on your side sunshine....

 

[Katzndogz]

These are natural occurrences caused by natural fluctuations. You are a primitive, sacrificing goats to the Rain God.

Firstly, do you now understand that 97% of glaciers are retreating?

Secondly, can you tell us when this last occured on earth?

The last major retreat was approximately 19,500 years ago. It ended approximately 12,500 years ago.

To document the retreat history of this glacier, Guido et al. measured the concentration of cosmogenically produced 10Be in polished bedrock to deduce the duration of exposure to cosmic rays since the glacier receded past each of eight locations. This yielded a record of retreat that began at approximately 19,500 years B.P and ended at roughly 12,500 years B.P., when the San Juan Mountains became largely devoid of ice.

Measuring The Retreat History Of Alpine Glaciers

That MIGHT be why it's called Millenial fluctuations because they occur over very long periods of time. Glaciers that are retreating started retreating in 1850. Was it caused by campfires? Buffalo farts?

You are looking at a VERY VERY simple answer to very very complex questions. It rains, global warming, it doesn't rain, global warming, it's cold, global warming, it's hot, global warming.

What does global warming really do? Why is it necessary? Because billions of dollars move around the world betting for or against global warming. Just the carbon credit trade (a product that does not exist) alone is worth billions of dollars. Scientists are paid fortunes to come up with global warming explanations. All those explanations do is support the global warming industry. Dissenting scientists are silenced.

Unfortunately we live in a world populated by the uncurious and noninquisitive who accept a single explanation (global warming) for some very complex issues like natural glacial fluctuations and solar fluctuations. It really is like trying to explain the jet stream, precipitation, evaporation and cloud formation to someone convinced that all they need to do is sacrifice a goat to the Rain God. It's the simple and understandable answer and it works, at least half the time.

Just watch politicians use global warming to explain away hurricanes. It will take a lot of money to fix hurricanes. It's global warming. But it's really just a 30 year hurricane cycle, just like always.

USATODAY.com - Record year for hurricanes part of a natural cycle

No wonder that anchor at CNN could blame the Russian meteroite on global warming. It is the expected position to take.

 

[Saigon]

Westwall -

It amazes me how hard you will work to avoid science.

Why would you imagine that most glaciers would be "continuously" monitored? The last major study of Alaskan glaciers I read covered something around 250 glaciers - but very few of them were monitored 'continuously'.

They make their claim based on 84 glaciers worldwide

Um....no, not at all. You misunderstood what was written, because you assume the only glaciers monitored continuously are the only ones monitored at all. If you actually read the report like an adult you'd have noticed lines such as "All 47 monitored glaciers are receding and five have disappeared completely" used around the Cascade Glacier group alone. Did you see the line "An examination of 244 marine glacier fronts on the Antarctic Peninsula..."

Honestly....you really are a child sometimes, you know.

The research covers thousands of glaciers.

Can we maybe skip the usual dozen red herrings and excuses, backflips and diversions?

 

[Saigon]

Katz -

One step at a time. Do you now accept that 97% of the worlds glaciers are in retreat, or would you like to see more information?

Do you also accept that current glacier decline in unmatched during the last 19,500 (your figure) years?

If you don't, I suspect any further attempt at discussion would be a waste of both our time.

You are looking at a VERY VERY simple answer to very very complex questions

Right. That is why you posted a list of the 1% of glaciers that are advancing, and have thus far refused to comment on the other 97%.

 

[westwall]

Westwall -

It amazes me how hard you will work to avoid science.

Why would you imagine that most glaciers would be "continuously" monitored? The last major study of Alaskan glaciers I read covered something around 250 glaciers - but very few of them were monitored 'continuously'.

They make their claim based on 84 glaciers worldwide

Um....no, not at all. You misunderstood what was written, because you assume the only glaciers monitored continuously are the only ones monitored at all. If you actually read the report like an adult you'd have noticed lines such as "All 47 monitored glaciers are receding and five have disappeared completely" used around the Cascade Glacier group alone. Did you see the line "An examination of 244 marine glacier fronts on the Antarctic Peninsula..."

Honestly....you really are a child sometimes, you know.

The research covers thousands of glaciers.

Can we maybe skip the usual dozen red herrings and excuses, backflips and diversions?

You claimed I was cherry picking data and I showed you CONCLUSIVLEY that the website you linked to is guilty of the exact same claim you foisted off on me. Only, I look at more than 84 glaciers. Your source DOESN'T!

ALL the glaciers in New Zealand, and Chile have been monitored for decades. Most of those in Bolivia, Argentina, Columbia, Equador, and Peru have likewise been monitored. Venezuela has one that has been monitored for long periods out of five I think they have...

In other words there are 40 glaciers in South America alone that meet the criteria.....so why aren't THEY being used?


For childlike behavior you take the cake bucko, you take the cake.

 

[westwall]

Katz -

One step at a time. Do you now accept that 97% of the worlds glaciers are in retreat, or would you like to see more information?

Do you also accept that current glacier decline in unmatched during the last 19,500 (your figure) years?

If you don't, I suspect any further attempt at discussion would be a waste of both our time.

You are looking at a VERY VERY simple answer to very very complex questions

Right. That is why you posted a list of the 1% of glaciers that are advancing, and have thus far refused to comment on the other 97%.

Don't you mean to say 97% of 84? Truly, you speak out of both sides of your twisted orifice.

 

[RollingThunder]

These are natural occurrences caused by natural fluctuations. You are a primitive, sacrificing goats to the Rain God.

Firstly, do you now understand that 97% of glaciers are retreating?

Secondly, can you tell us when this last occured on earth?

No, I don't agree that 97% of anything is happening.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL......such a retard

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Android gets 97% of malware


Chemotherapy Ineffective 97% of The Time


Survey finds 97% of GPs prescribe placebos

As for when was the last time this happened, it was in the late 1880's when the glacier retreat was orders of magnitude greater than it is today. All when CO2 levels were "safe".

LOLOLOL.....oh, walleyed, you are such an awful (and very retarded) liar. Why do you bother lying about stuff that is so easily debunked? Do you really imagine that everybody else is as ignorant and severely retarded as you are? Do you think we don't have access to the facts or that no one will look?

Recent Global Glacier Retreat Overview

Mauri S. Pelto, Director
North Cascade Glacier Climate Project - Founded 1983
Nichols College, Dudley, MA
[email protected]

In recent years I have been asked to write the section on Glacier and Ice Sheets for the Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society Annual State of the Climate report, for example BAMS State of the Climate 2008, 2009 and 2010. This forces me to keep up with investigations of glacier terminus change around the globe. This article documents some of the observations. In historic times, glaciers grew during the Little Ice Age, a cool period from about 1550 to 1850. Subsequently, until about 1940, glaciers around the world retreated as climate warmed. Glacier recession declined and reversed, in many cases, from 1950 to 1980 as a slight global cooling occurred. Since 1980, glacier retreat has become increasingly rapid and ubiquitous, so much so that it has threatened the existence of many of the glaciers of the world [1]. This process has increased markedly since 1995, leading to such bizarre steps as covering sections of Austrian alpine glaciers with plastic to retard melting. The World Glacier Monitoring Service [2] has noted 19 consecutive years of negative mass balances, that is volume losses. If a business had 19 consecutive losing years they would be bankrupt. This can lead to the disappearance of a glacier.



Glacier National Park (U.S.)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

After the end of the Little Ice Age in 1850, the glaciers in the park retreated moderately until the 1910s. Between 1917 and 1941, the retreat rate accelerated and was as high as 330 feet (100 m) a year for some glaciers.[46] A slight cooling trend from the 1940s until 1979, helped to slow the rate of retreat and in a few examples some glaciers even advanced a few tens of meters. However, during the 1980s, the glaciers in the park began a steady period of loss of glacial ice, which continues as of 2010. In 1850, the glaciers in the region near Blackfoot and Jackson Glaciers covered 5,337 acres (21.6 km2), but by 1979, the same region of the park had glacier ice covering only 1,828 acres (7.4 km2). Between 1850 and 1979, 73% of the glacial ice had melted away.[48]

In the 1980s, the U.S. Geological Survey began a more systematic study of the remaining glaciers, which continues to the present day. By 2010, 37 glaciers remained, but only 25 of these were considered to be "active glaciers" of at least 25 acres (0.10 km2) in area.[4][46] If the current warming trend continues, all of the remaining glaciers in the park will be gone by 2020. This glacier retreat follows a worldwide pattern that has accelerated even more since 1980. Without a major climatic change in which cooler and moister weather returns and persists, the mass balance, which is the accumulation rate versus the ablation (melting) rate of glaciers, will continue to be negative and the glaciers will eventually disappear, leaving behind only barren rock.[47]

 

[Old Rocks]

U.S. Geological Survey Professional Paper 1386-K

About 5 percent (about 75,000 km2) of Alaska is presently glacierized, including 11 mountain ranges, 1 large island, an island chain, and 1 archipelago. The total number of glaciers in Alaska is estimated at >100,000, including many active and former tidewater glaciers. Glaciers in every mountain range and island group are experiencing significant retreat, thinning, and (or) stagnation, especially those at lower elevations, a process that began by the middle of the 19th century. In southeastern Alaska and western Canada, 205 glaciers have a history of surging; in the same region, at least 53 present and 7 former large ice-dammed lakes have produced jökulhlaups (glacier-outburst floods). Ice-capped Alaska volcanoes also have the potential for jökulhlaups caused by subglacier volcanic and geothermal activity. Satellite remote sensing provides the only practical means of monitoring regional changes in glaciers in response to short-and long-term changes in the maritime and continental climates of Alaska. Geospatial analysis is used to define selected glaciological parameters in the eastern part of the Alaska Range.

These are the people I trust for accurate information. Not some posier on an internet message board.

 

[westwall]

U.S. Geological Survey Professional Paper 1386-K

About 5 percent (about 75,000 km2) of Alaska is presently glacierized, including 11 mountain ranges, 1 large island, an island chain, and 1 archipelago. The total number of glaciers in Alaska is estimated at >100,000, including many active and former tidewater glaciers. Glaciers in every mountain range and island group are experiencing significant retreat, thinning, and (or) stagnation, especially those at lower elevations, a process that began by the middle of the 19th century. In southeastern Alaska and western Canada, 205 glaciers have a history of surging; in the same region, at least 53 present and 7 former large ice-dammed lakes have produced jökulhlaups (glacier-outburst floods). Ice-capped Alaska volcanoes also have the potential for jökulhlaups caused by subglacier volcanic and geothermal activity. Satellite remote sensing provides the only practical means of monitoring regional changes in glaciers in response to short-and long-term changes in the maritime and continental climates of Alaska. Geospatial analysis is used to define selected glaciological parameters in the eastern part of the Alaska Range.

These are the people I trust for accurate information. Not some posier on an internet message board.

It's spelled poseur nimrod, if you're going to insult someone at least try and not make an ass of yourself through a simple mistake like that. The Hubbard glacier was advancing at up to 7 feet per day. It is just one that we KNOW is advancing because they can't ignore it.
How many others are advancing that don't get reported?

And don't you find it slightly strange that you can have a glacier advancing so rapidly while right next door they are supposedly melting away? No, you question nothing. Not surprising in the slightest.

 

[Saigon]

Westwall -

Only, I look at more than 84 glaciers. Your source DOESN'T!

No, it looks at thousands of glaciers - as I had already explained. Do you now accept that?

I don't know why it is so hard for you to post honestly and according to what is posted. The constant, childish cherry picking, the backflips and endless diversions do you few favours, you know.

 

[RollingThunder]

U.S. Geological Survey Professional Paper 1386-K

About 5 percent (about 75,000 km2) of Alaska is presently glacierized, including 11 mountain ranges, 1 large island, an island chain, and 1 archipelago. The total number of glaciers in Alaska is estimated at >100,000, including many active and former tidewater glaciers. Glaciers in every mountain range and island group are experiencing significant retreat, thinning, and (or) stagnation, especially those at lower elevations, a process that began by the middle of the 19th century. In southeastern Alaska and western Canada, 205 glaciers have a history of surging; in the same region, at least 53 present and 7 former large ice-dammed lakes have produced jökulhlaups (glacier-outburst floods). Ice-capped Alaska volcanoes also have the potential for jökulhlaups caused by subglacier volcanic and geothermal activity. Satellite remote sensing provides the only practical means of monitoring regional changes in glaciers in response to short-and long-term changes in the maritime and continental climates of Alaska. Geospatial analysis is used to define selected glaciological parameters in the eastern part of the Alaska Range.

These are the people I trust for accurate information. Not some posier on an internet message board.

The Hubbard glacier was advancing at up to 7 feet per day. It is just one that we KNOW is advancing because they can't ignore it.
How many others are advancing that don't get reported?

And don't you find it slightly strange that you can have a glacier advancing so rapidly while right next door they are supposedly melting away? No, you question nothing. Not surprising in the slightest.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL.....too, too funny.....you mention one glacier that is advancing and fatuously imply that there just must be lots of others that are advancing too that somehow mysteriously "don't get reported"......woo-hoo, another conspiracy theory.......LOLOLOL.....and then the fact that various differences in conditions at different sites is causing most of the glaciers to melt and retreat while a few are growing seems very "surprising" to you - perhaps you 'smell' "another" conspiracy.....LOLOLOLOL.......it is obvious that you don't just find all of the scientific facts "surprising", you find everything about this matter completely bewildering......you poor, poor, confused, brainwashed simple-minded retard.....

 

[Saigon]

RT-

.you mention one glacier that is advancing and fatuously imply that there just must be lots of others that are advancing too

Exactly, it really is beyond childish.

I started this discussion by explaining that 1% of glaciers are growing - which is quite a large number in total. Why any adult would then fixate on that 1% and refuse to even take the other 97% into consideration is unfathomable.

 

[skookerasbil]

Snow in Saudi Arabia............


Hmmm.........must be all this stinking warming again!!!!


Global Warming Now Leading To Snowy Springs??Beaches Under Snow?!

 

[jon_berzerk]

The climate doomsday crowd is hilarious. It's hot, ZOMG, we need a carbon tax!

its cold we need a carbon tax

 

[JWBooth]

05/02/13 18:53:42

Snowed out Royals/Rays baseball game

Read more here: KansasCity.com | Photos - Local​

 

[IanC]

Finand has been recording temperatures since 1900 (Helsinki) and 1908 (Sodankylä/Northern Finland).

The hottest years on record are:

2008
1934
2000
2011
1938

Three of the hottest five years on record occured within the past decade.

The coldest years on record;

1902
1941
1915
1942
1987

None of the seven coldest years occured within the past decade.

As you can see from the chart below, average daily temperatures have been rising slightly in both Southern and Northern Finland during the past century. (Red= Helsinki, Blue = Sodankylä)

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Vuositilastot - Ilmatieteen laitos

Because of the extreme nature of Finland's climate, we often view climate on a montly basis, and it is very interesting to take one month and look at that in isolation. I've taken July here, but all months are in the link.

Again, I think anyone can see the gradual rise in temperatures that have taken place in the average temperature since 1951.

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Heinäkuu - Ilmatieteen laitos

Let the whining, sidestepping and denial begin!

I think you can clearly see, now that you have done your own investigation, that facts and figures on Finnish temperature are scarce and hard to find in raw form, especially if you want compare the results produced from 5, 10 20 years ago. I see you are posting Helsinki findings here even though you chastised me for doing the same thing, citing that Helsinki was not representative of Finnish climate.

on of the biggest problems with climate science is that the methods of defining and describing temperature data sets for global, country and regional areas keeps changing, always with the result of more extreme increase, by variously increasing recent readings and decreasing historical records. as well the information published 5, 10, 20 years ago is purposely hidden from prying internet eyes because it is embarrassing.

 

[RollingThunder]

....as well the information published 5, 10, 20 years ago is purposely hidden from prying internet eyes because it is embarrassing.

And another crackpot denier cult conspiracy theory rears its ugly little head......don't you deniers ever get tired of looking like complete retards?