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Great catch. I love this part:
I dont get this debate at all. It is not even a real debate. The fire-protection services were government services. The fee in question was a government-mandated fee. The county lines in which the fee was applicable is a government-drawn line that is completely arbitrary. The policy of not putting out the fire was a government policy enforced by the mayor. As he said, in the words of a good bureaucrat, Anybody thats not in the city of South Fulton, its a service we offer, either they accept it or they dont.
So why is the market being criticized here? This was not a real market. Instead, this is precisely what we would expect from government. In a real market, there is no way that a free-enterprise fire service would have refused to provide the homeowner service. They would be in business to provide that service. The fire would have been put out and he would have been charged for the service. It is as simple as that. It is the same as lawn-mowing services or plumbing services or any other type of service. Can we know for sure that the market would provide such services? Well, if insurance companies have anything to say about it, such services would certainly be everywhere.
Except that this is a basic service required of a local government. Free market be damned.
Yeah, and look how well that turned out.
Yeah, call me crazy, but turning off your public water service until a fee can be paid is a tad different from letting your property and your pets perish in flames. And if your health and well being depended upon that public water supply they should be obligated to leave the water on and find another remedy via municipal lien or something.
Maybe it should remain that you are obligated to pay for your own personal needs...
This notion that people are owed even their most basic of needs by others is ludicrous
Heck, I can see people saying government has no business providing welfare payments, social security, and any number of socialistic programs. I can see the reasoning behind that. But even libertarians agree that government should provide a safety net of general welfare to protect its citizens, such as police, ambulance, and fire department. What fucking good is a government if it can't provide those basic services, but is hung up with a bunch of other shit, like furnishing the local county court house, or city hall?
Fire protection isn't one of those fancy add ons. It is a basic protection that local governments ought to provide.
Unconscionable.
The fire reportedly started in some barrels outside. As the flames crept closer to the home, Cranick says he offered to pay whatever it would take. The plea fell on deaf ears. Hours later, the home was gone.
So were three dogs and a cat.
"They coulda' been saved if they put water on it. But they didn't do it," Cranick told MSNBC.
Firefighters Watch As Home Burns: Gene Cranick's House Destroyed In Tennessee Over $75 Fee (VIDEO)
Unconscionable.
Firefighters Watch As Home Burns: Gene Cranick's House Destroyed In Tennessee Over $75 Fee (VIDEO)The fire reportedly started in some barrels outside. As the flames crept closer to the home, Cranick says he offered to pay whatever it would take. The plea fell on deaf ears. Hours later, the home was gone.
So were three dogs and a cat.
"They coulda' been saved if they put water on it. But they didn't do it," Cranick told MSNBC.
The only thing the fire fighters did wrong was they didn't throw his ass in the house. He recklessly put his family, neighbors, home and pets at risk. Throw his butt in jail for reckless endangerment.
How can it be reckless endangerment if the fee was optional?
The Fire Dept. responded to protect the legitimate paying customers from the dead beats flaming house..The people of that house offered to pay whatever money was owed if the fire department would just do their job, yet they just stood there. Why did the fire department even bother responding?
The citizenry consists of the citizens. While I can understand a water fee, I absolutely do not see a comparison between a water fee (where water is delivered to you via a pipelineMaybe it should remain that you are obligated to pay for your own personal needs...
This notion that people are owed even their most basic of needs by others is ludicrous
Heck, I can see people saying government has no business providing welfare payments, social security, and any number of socialistic programs. I can see the reasoning behind that. But even libertarians agree that government should provide a safety net of general welfare to protect its citizens, such as police, ambulance, and fire department. What fucking good is a government if it can't provide those basic services, but is hung up with a bunch of other shit, like furnishing the local county court house, or city hall?
Fire protection isn't one of those fancy add ons. It is a basic protection that local governments ought to provide.
No... The government is in place to protect the citizenry... not inherently individual citizens that are not wards of the state and who can take care of little personal responsibilities such as getting water or paying $75 for annual fire protection from a neighboring town
The government has an obligation to protect its citizenry, fee or no fee. And to boot, that property owner offered to fork up the "owed" money. What kind of sick shit is it that they still refused to put out the fire? Defend that.Now... a municipality that agrees by law that all citizen property owners should pay for a centralized protective service thru taxation... that is one thing, for even that is not set in stone and is in legislation which can be changed or nullified.. saying it is OWED regardless of contribution to protect your personal dwelling that you have personal responsibility for, or owed something as simple as water which is a basic need everyone can meet with even the simplest of effort, hell no
I'm sure that these private property owners still pay property taxes. On top of that, unless you expect every private property owner to have their own private fire department, your argument is absurd.Again.. this was not public property to be protected by the public system, this is indeed PRIVATE property and a personal responsibility
Except that this is a basic service required of a local government. Free market be damned.
Yeah, and look how well that turned out.
Which is why that local government should be punished. Your idea of pimping out basic government responsibilities to the private sector is misguided. What's next, hiring private security guards (mercenaries) to perform border patrol duties because the free market dictates they would do a better job?
The only thing the fire fighters did wrong was they didn't throw his ass in the house. He recklessly put his family, neighbors, home and pets at risk. Throw his butt in jail for reckless endangerment.
Yeah, and look how well that turned out.
Which is why that local government should be punished. Your idea of pimping out basic government responsibilities to the private sector is misguided. What's next, hiring private security guards (mercenaries) to perform border patrol duties because the free market dictates they would do a better job?
I'm not an anarchist, but services like fire could easily and more effectively be supplied by the market. This guy would certainly still have his house.
Do the math.I'm not an anarchist, but services like fire could easily and more effectively be supplied by the market. This guy would certainly still have his house.
The citizenry consists of the citizens. While I can understand a water fee, I absolutely do not see a comparison between a water fee (where water is delivered to you via a pipelineHeck, I can see people saying government has no business providing welfare payments, social security, and any number of socialistic programs. I can see the reasoning behind that. But even libertarians agree that government should provide a safety net of general welfare to protect its citizens, such as police, ambulance, and fire department. What fucking good is a government if it can't provide those basic services, but is hung up with a bunch of other shit, like furnishing the local county court house, or city hall?
Fire protection isn't one of those fancy add ons. It is a basic protection that local governments ought to provide.
No... The government is in place to protect the citizenry... not inherently individual citizens that are not wards of the state and who can take care of little personal responsibilities such as getting water or paying $75 for annual fire protection from a neighboring town
) and the fire department.The government has an obligation to protect its citizenry, fee or no fee. And to boot, that property owner offered to fork up the "owed" money. What kind of sick shit is it that they still refused to put out the fire? Defend that.Now... a municipality that agrees by law that all citizen property owners should pay for a centralized protective service thru taxation... that is one thing, for even that is not set in stone and is in legislation which can be changed or nullified.. saying it is OWED regardless of contribution to protect your personal dwelling that you have personal responsibility for, or owed something as simple as water which is a basic need everyone can meet with even the simplest of effort, hell noI'm sure that these private property owners still pay property taxes. On top of that, unless you expect every private property owner to have their own private fire department, your argument is absurd.Again.. this was not public property to be protected by the public system, this is indeed PRIVATE property and a personal responsibility
They shouldn't have even asked if he had payed the fee.. They shoulda put the fire out.
Of course Conservatives are gonna cry "personal responsibility".. Or in other words, "we don't give a shit". The days of compassionant conservatism is long over.
Anyone who supportted the decision to let the house burn down, along with the animals inside, are hateful people, and don't care about their fellow man.
Someone forgets to pay a fee and all of the sudden his family deserves to lose their whole house? Yeah, we totally want conservatives back in control of this country.
Which is why that local government should be punished. Your idea of pimping out basic government responsibilities to the private sector is misguided. What's next, hiring private security guards (mercenaries) to perform border patrol duties because the free market dictates they would do a better job?
I'm not an anarchist, but services like fire could easily and more effectively be supplied by the market. This guy would certainly still have his house.
Haha, I can see it now... Operator in India picks up: "Your house is on fire? Acme fire services did a market study and found that fire-fighting in your locality is not profitable according to free market principles. Sorry, but you will have to travel to the nearest mid-sized city to get your fired serviced due to this downsizing of operations."
Do the math.I'm not an anarchist, but services like fire could easily and more effectively be supplied by the market. This guy would certainly still have his house.
The Fire Dept. was only charging less than 21 cents per day.
I doubt the so called Free Market would have been any cheaper.
Plus, in most small towns the fire fighters are all volunteers.
Anyway, I don't think this self centered bozo would have paid the fee if it was a penny per day.
They shouldn't have even asked if he had payed the fee.. They shoulda put the fire out.
Of course Conservatives are gonna cry "personal responsibility".. Or in other words, "we don't give a shit". The days of compassionant conservatism is long over.
Anyone who supportted the decision to let the house burn down, along with the animals inside, are hateful people, and don't care about their fellow man.
Someone forgets to pay a fee and all of the sudden his family deserves to lose their whole house? Yeah, we totally want conservatives back in control of this country.
So you know for a fact that all of the fire fighters there were Conservatives???
Not quite. The Operator would have also said, "Have a wonderful day!"I'm not an anarchist, but services like fire could easily and more effectively be supplied by the market. This guy would certainly still have his house.
Haha, I can see it now... Operator in India picks up: "Your house is on fire? Acme fire services did a market study and found that fire-fighting in your locality is not profitable according to free market principles. Sorry, but you will have to travel to the nearest mid-sized city to get your fired serviced due to this downsizing of operations."
Yeah that's exactly how it would happen.
They shouldn't have even asked if he had payed the fee.. They shoulda put the fire out.
Of course Conservatives are gonna cry "personal responsibility".. Or in other words, "we don't give a shit". The days of compassionant conservatism is long over.
Anyone who supportted the decision to let the house burn down, along with the animals inside, are hateful people, and don't care about their fellow man.
Someone forgets to pay a fee and all of the sudden his family deserves to lose their whole house? Yeah, we totally want conservatives back in control of this country.
So you know for a fact that all of the fire fighters there were Conservatives???
The ones agreeing with the decision on this thread are.
And every member of the county board are republican.. And I'm pretty sure the decision to not put the fire out came from them. The firemen were just scared of losing their job.. But I woulda just done the right thing.
They shouldn't have even asked if he had payed the fee.. They shoulda put the fire out.
Of course Conservatives are gonna cry "personal responsibility".. Or in other words, "we don't give a shit". The days of compassionant conservatism is long over.
Anyone who supportted the decision to let the house burn down, along with the animals inside, are hateful people, and don't care about their fellow man.
Someone forgets to pay a fee and all of the sudden his family deserves to lose their whole house? Yeah, we totally want conservatives back in control of this country.
