Fla. Gov. calls for investigation into Student suspension over word Jesus

[PoliticalChic]

You know what upsets me about this story? It seems like an unnecessary waste of paper. Other than that, I can't get excited about it one way or the other.

The usual emotion if one has no standards.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

"Torment"? The exercise was optional - no one was "forced" to do anything - and I don't know of any rule in Christianity that forbids stepping on Jesus's name.

And we only have the student's side of the story - we don't know why he was actually suspended, only what he claims was the reason.

You guys are insisting on painting this as an anti-Christianity thing, which is really missing the entire point.

Well, first and foremost, Jesus is a huge prophet in Islam so this isn't just anti Christian, this is anti Islam if one wants to really go at this.

Jesus is a biggie. Every time some one wants to slag Jesus, they're slagging Islam too.

Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the Day of Judgment to restore justice and to defeat Masih ad-Dajjal ("the false messiah", also known as the Antichrist)

Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



And it's not the students side of the story for crying out loud. Read the article. The University has apologized and admitted that this was insensitive.

First of all, my point was that the lesson wasn't "anti-religious", in any way. It was a lesson in the power of symbols, and how our brain reacts to them. This thread is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Does writing Jesus's name on a piece of paper, then stepping on it somehow "hurt" Jesus? Does the piece of paper somehow gain some religious value when Jesus's name is written on it, becoming more than just a piece of paper?

As for the University "apologizing" - I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's a lot more likely that they're "apologizing" for PR reasons than because they actually think anything was wrong.

We only have the student's side of the story in terms of exactly why he was suspended.

You don't have a clue as what the purpose of the exercise was. The university apologized because what happened was wrong. Period.

You haven't been right about a lot of things on this issue including the gender of the professor. Why not shut up before you make an even bigger ass out of yourself?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

I imagine the 'professor's' second choice would have bee "OBAMA," huh?


Dunce.

Would you be "offended" if she had used Obama's name?

I know I wouldn't.

"He," not she.


Are you having trouble seeing the forest for the trees?


Universities' raison d'être is to kill any belief in traditional religion.

This can be seen in Woodrow Wilson’s speech as president of Princeton:
“Our problem is not merely to help students to adjust to themselves to world life…[but] to make them as unlike their fathers as we can.”
Michael McGerr, “A Fierce Discontent: The Rise and Fall of the Progressive Movement in America, 1870-1920,” p. 111

Nonsense.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

university instructor told students to write the word 'Jesus' on paper, throw it on the floor and stomp on it

What exactly was the professor trying to teach?
Is their apology good enough.... Hell no, someone needs to be fired.
There is absolutely no excuse for this type of behavior from the professor and there is no excuse for the University for backing him up.

The class was on symbolism.

The entire point of the exercise was that people would object to it - the point of the exercise is that people would hesitate to step on a piece of paper with Jesus written on it - a symbol with no actual religious meaning - because their mind would associate that symbol with what it represents.

It was actually quite a good lesson plan - and if anything, the whole "scandal" about it proved the professor's point.

Well, sure. The fact that it is reprehensible to Christians doesn't count at all.

 

[Coyote]

We don't know what went on in that classroom, or why the student was suspended. We only have the student's side of the story.

The professor is a "she", by the way.

It's staggeringly unlikely that the kid was suspended because he fulfilled the point of the lesson. It's much more likely that the student reacted in a way that resulted in his suspension.

There's a rumor going around that he threatened the teacher - supposedly coming from other students in the class. I'm not saying those rumors are true - just that there's more to the story than what you guys are publicizing.

Yeah I really believe a devout Mormon student is going to threaten to punch out a teacher.



What bullshit rumor is this? Link?

I'm trying to find the link.

As I said initially, I don't necessarily believe those rumors. The point is there's more to the story.

One of the problems with stories like these is we seldom get both sides of the story due to possible legal actions. Usually, the university is constrained from being able to provide a full accounting of it's side so we just hear what the student has to say.

I agree there is likely more to the story than meets the eye and the context of the assignment is being totally ignored as it gets built up into a hysterical - Christianity is being attacked while another religion isn't - mentality.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Well, first and foremost, Jesus is a huge prophet in Islam so this isn't just anti Christian, this is anti Islam if one wants to really go at this.

Jesus is a biggie. Every time some one wants to slag Jesus, they're slagging Islam too.

Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the Day of Judgment to restore justice and to defeat Masih ad-Dajjal ("the false messiah", also known as the Antichrist)

Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



And it's not the students side of the story for crying out loud. Read the article. The University has apologized and admitted that this was insensitive.

First of all, my point was that the lesson wasn't "anti-religious", in any way. It was a lesson in the power of symbols, and how our brain reacts to them. This thread is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Does writing Jesus's name on a piece of paper, then stepping on it somehow "hurt" Jesus? Does the piece of paper somehow gain some religious value when Jesus's name is written on it, becoming more than just a piece of paper?

As for the University "apologizing" - I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's a lot more likely that they're "apologizing" for PR reasons than because they actually think anything was wrong.

We only have the student's side of the story in terms of exactly why he was suspended.

You don't have a clue as what the purpose of the exercise was. The university apologized because what happened was wrong. Period.

You haven't been right about a lot of things on this issue including the gender of the professor. Why not shut up before you make an even bigger ass out of yourself?

Seeing as I've read the lesson plan, I think I do have a pretty good idea as to what the point of the exercise was.

The university apologizing for something doesn't mean that they actually had something to apologize for.

 

[Coyote]

I hope the kid did threaten violence. The professor deserves it.

Why?

And, if you feel he deserves it, then I'm guessing you must surely agree with the Muslims who riot over cartoons of Mohammed.

 

[Circe]

university instructor told students to write the word 'Jesus' on paper, throw it on the floor and stomp on it

What exactly was the professor trying to teach?
Is their apology good enough.... Hell no, someone needs to be fired.
There is absolutely no excuse for this type of behavior from the professor and there is no excuse for the University for backing him up.

The class was on symbolism.

The entire point of the exercise was that people would object to it - the point of the exercise is that people would hesitate to step on a piece of paper with Jesus written on it - a symbol with no actual religious meaning - because their mind would associate that symbol with what it represents.

It was actually quite a good lesson plan - and if anything, the whole "scandal" about it proved the professor's point.

Except for the fact he kicked out a student. That means the intent was not to cause consternation at all.

Excellent point. It was about control, control, control and teaching the students to despise the concept of God, wasn't it? Well, the Christian God, anyway: no way this guy would even have been able to THINK of making them put Allah or Mohammed on the paper to step on.

This reminds me of the Yale student "art" show at which one student was pleased to cover the floor with American flags and get the people at the show to walk on them. The "art" was supposed to be their consternation.......

Art is now about how upset you get about it. A political statement of rebellion of some kind. This prof's classroom example was quite derivative as well as being grossly offensive.

 

[Coyote]

The student was suspended. The student did not approach anyone over this issue until he received the suspension.

So was this a "lesson" or a "torment" for a devout Christian student?

I say the latter.

And why the suspension?

Mr Rotela said he went to speak with his professor's supervisor two days after, and found himself suspended.



FAU: University instructor told students to write the word 'Jesus' on paper, throw it on floor and stomp on it | Mail Online

"Torment"? The exercise was optional - no one was "forced" to do anything - and I don't know of any rule in Christianity that forbids stepping on Jesus's name.

And we only have the student's side of the story - we don't know why he was actually suspended, only what he claims was the reason.

You guys are insisting on painting this as an anti-Christianity thing, which is really missing the entire point.

Well, first and foremost, Jesus is a huge prophet in Islam so this isn't just anti Christian, this is anti Islam if one wants to really go at this.

Jesus is a biggie. Every time some one wants to slag Jesus, they're slagging Islam too.

Muslims believe that Jesus will return to earth near the Day of Judgment to restore justice and to defeat Masih ad-Dajjal ("the false messiah", also known as the Antichrist)

Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



And it's not the students side of the story for crying out loud. Read the article. The University has apologized and admitted that this was insensitive.

Insensitive is probably the right term. Certainly not something to be fired over.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

university instructor told students to write the word 'Jesus' on paper, throw it on the floor and stomp on it

What exactly was the professor trying to teach?
Is their apology good enough.... Hell no, someone needs to be fired.
There is absolutely no excuse for this type of behavior from the professor and there is no excuse for the University for backing him up.

The class was on symbolism.

The entire point of the exercise was that people would object to it - the point of the exercise is that people would hesitate to step on a piece of paper with Jesus written on it - a symbol with no actual religious meaning - because their mind would associate that symbol with what it represents.

It was actually quite a good lesson plan - and if anything, the whole "scandal" about it proved the professor's point.

Well, sure. The fact that it is reprehensible to Christians doesn't count at all.

Stepping on the word "Jesus" is "reprehensible to Christians"?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The class was on symbolism.

The entire point of the exercise was that people would object to it - the point of the exercise is that people would hesitate to step on a piece of paper with Jesus written on it - a symbol with no actual religious meaning - because their mind would associate that symbol with what it represents.

It was actually quite a good lesson plan - and if anything, the whole "scandal" about it proved the professor's point.

Except for the fact he kicked out a student. That means the intent was not to cause consternation at all.

Excellent point. It was about control, control, control and teaching the students to despise the concept of God, wasn't it? Well, the Christian God, anyway: no way this guy would even have been able to THINK of making them put Allah or Mohammed on the paper to step on.

This reminds me of the Yale student "art" show at which one student was pleased to cover the floor with American flags and get the people at the show to walk on them. The "art" was supposed to be their consternation.......

Art is now about how upset you get about it. A political statement of rebellion of some kind. This prof's classroom example was quite derivative as well as being grossly offensive.

How does stepping on a piece of paper with the word "Jesus" written on it "teach students to despise the concept of God"?

 

[Oldstyle]

The class was on symbolism.

The entire point of the exercise was that people would object to it - the point of the exercise is that people would hesitate to step on a piece of paper with Jesus written on it - a symbol with no actual religious meaning - because their mind would associate that symbol with what it represents.

It was actually quite a good lesson plan - and if anything, the whole "scandal" about it proved the professor's point.

Well, sure. The fact that it is reprehensible to Christians doesn't count at all.

Stepping on the word "Jesus" is "reprehensible to Christians"?

That would appear to be the case for at least one...

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The class was on symbolism.

The entire point of the exercise was that people would object to it - the point of the exercise is that people would hesitate to step on a piece of paper with Jesus written on it - a symbol with no actual religious meaning - because their mind would associate that symbol with what it represents.

It was actually quite a good lesson plan - and if anything, the whole "scandal" about it proved the professor's point.

And if you object you get tossed out of class.

Great teacher!

He wasn't "tossed out of class".

He was suspended a few days later, for unspecified reasons.

Really?

Ryan Rotela, who is a junior at Florida Atlantic University says that he was kicked out of a class for refusing to stomp on the word Jesus.

a student who objected to the demonstration of disrespect and refused to participate was later kicked out of the class when he objected to the professor’s supervisor

One of the students, junior Ryan Rotela, said that when he refused to comply he was kicked out of the class. Rotela, who is a devout Mormon, explained his refusal to obey Poole, saying that “anytime you stomp on something it shows that you believe that something has no value.

I'll take his word over yours. After all, he was there.

 

[Oldstyle]

Except for the fact he kicked out a student. That means the intent was not to cause consternation at all.

Excellent point. It was about control, control, control and teaching the students to despise the concept of God, wasn't it? Well, the Christian God, anyway: no way this guy would even have been able to THINK of making them put Allah or Mohammed on the paper to step on.

This reminds me of the Yale student "art" show at which one student was pleased to cover the floor with American flags and get the people at the show to walk on them. The "art" was supposed to be their consternation.......

Art is now about how upset you get about it. A political statement of rebellion of some kind. This prof's classroom example was quite derivative as well as being grossly offensive.

How does stepping on a piece of paper with the word "Jesus" written on it "teach students to despise the concept of God"?

I'm scratching my head trying to figure out exactly WHAT this instructor was trying to "teach" with this exercise, Doc.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

First of all, my point was that the lesson wasn't "anti-religious", in any way. It was a lesson in the power of symbols, and how our brain reacts to them. This thread is a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Does writing Jesus's name on a piece of paper, then stepping on it somehow "hurt" Jesus? Does the piece of paper somehow gain some religious value when Jesus's name is written on it, becoming more than just a piece of paper?

As for the University "apologizing" - I'm going to go out on a limb and say that it's a lot more likely that they're "apologizing" for PR reasons than because they actually think anything was wrong.

We only have the student's side of the story in terms of exactly why he was suspended.

You don't have a clue as what the purpose of the exercise was. The university apologized because what happened was wrong. Period.

You haven't been right about a lot of things on this issue including the gender of the professor. Why not shut up before you make an even bigger ass out of yourself?

Seeing as I've read the lesson plan, I think I do have a pretty good idea as to what the point of the exercise was.

The university apologizing for something doesn't mean that they actually had something to apologize for.

Produce the "lesson plan".

 

[theDoctorisIn]

And if you object you get tossed out of class.

Great teacher!

He wasn't "tossed out of class".

He was suspended a few days later, for unspecified reasons.

Really?

a student who objected to the demonstration of disrespect and refused to participate was later kicked out of the class when he objected to the professor’s supervisor

One of the students, junior Ryan Rotela, said that when he refused to comply he was kicked out of the class. Rotela, who is a devout Mormon, explained his refusal to obey Poole, saying that “anytime you stomp on something it shows that you believe that something has no value.

I'll take his word over yours. After all, he was there.

From your own link...

 

[tooAlive]

Stepping on the word "Jesus" is "reprehensible to Christians"?

 

[theDoctorisIn]

You don't have a clue as what the purpose of the exercise was. The university apologized because what happened was wrong. Period.

You haven't been right about a lot of things on this issue including the gender of the professor. Why not shut up before you make an even bigger ass out of yourself?

Seeing as I've read the lesson plan, I think I do have a pretty good idea as to what the point of the exercise was.

The university apologizing for something doesn't mean that they actually had something to apologize for.

Produce the "lesson plan".

It's from this textbook: [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Intercultural-Communication-A-Contextual-Approach/dp/1412976898]Intercultural Communication: A Contextual Approach: James W. Neuliep: 9781412976893: Amazon.com: Books[/ame]

Here's a synopsis from FOX:

Professor Makes Students ?Stomp on Jesus? | FOX News & Commentary: Todd Starnes

“Have the students write the name JESUS in big letters on a piece of paper,” the lesson reads. “Ask the students to stand up and put the paper on the floor in front of them with the name facing up. Ask the students to think about it for a moment. After a brief period of silence instruct them to step on the paper. Most will hesitate. Ask why they can’t step on the paper. Discuss the importance of symbols in culture.”

 

[Circe]

Does writing the word "Jesus" on something really make it a sacred religious symbol?

It sure does if you insist that everyone step on it!!

And the nation's shock that this happened makes it clear it is a sacred religious symbol.

Which reminds me of the great Christian apologist, C.S. Lewis. In his profound religious fantasy novel "That Hideous Strength," his feckless young protagonist, an assistant professor with a strong desire to "fit in," to belong to the cool crowd, is being trained up by, well, demons that are disguised as Senior Common Room dons at Oxford. They put him thru lots of exercises in "wrongness," for example a room with bad proportions. The last training is a room they lock him in with instructions to perform indignities on a lifesize wooden crucifix lying on the floor: he's to step on it, probably do other things that the elegant author doesn't care to specify but leaves to the imagination of the reader.

But our hero finds he can't. He badly wants to fit in, to be part of the "in group," but when he looks at the suffering figure, he just can't bring himself to add to its pain, even "symbolically." After wrestling with himself a long time, he suddenly bursts out, "I'm damned if I will do it!!"

A statement with a lot of resonance, as some of you have already figured out.

After which someone unexpected lets him out and there is a battle and the good side wins.

The Florida prof. wasn't well read, clearly, if he chose an example so close to this famous religious work and cast himself in the part of the demons.

 

[Ernie S.]

university instructor told students to write the word 'Jesus' on paper, throw it on the floor and stomp on it

What exactly was the professor trying to teach?
Is their apology good enough.... Hell no, someone needs to be fired.
There is absolutely no excuse for this type of behavior from the professor and there is no excuse for the University for backing him up.

The class was on symbolism.

The entire point of the exercise was that people would object to it - the point of the exercise is that people would hesitate to step on a piece of paper with Jesus written on it - a symbol with no actual religious meaning - because their mind would associate that symbol with what it represents.

It was actually quite a good lesson plan - and if anything, the whole "scandal" about it proved the professor's point.

So he could haver chosen the word "obama" but didn't?