Flag Burning

[007]

Are you saying that we should be more like the third world countries that kill people for shits and giggles? What makes our country great is that a citizen can burn a flag and you and I can get pissed off about it. Burning a flag isn't treason. The flag is a piece of cloth. It has thirteen stripes and fifty stars, but is nothing more than cloth. It will burn, but the ideaology that it stands for can never burn. The flag hasn't been bought by blood, the ideals behind it have. Burn the flag, I don't care. I didn't fight for a flag. I fought for for the idea that democracy will overcome and that one day no one will feel the need to burn the flag.

I'm sorry you think so little of the American flag. Thank you for letting me know what kind of a liberal I'm dealing with here.

 

[Nuc]

I'm far from wound up. And yes, burning the American flag is a big deal to this veteran.

So you think so what, who cares. I think you burn one if front of me, and we have a problem. Probably that will end in some sort of physical confrontation.

I'm not saying YOU are going to burn one. Just that I'd intervene if I ever saw it happening, where you wouldn't. I guess I'm just more patriotic than you are.

You probably are more patriotic than me. Or at least the things I love about America might be different than the things you love. But I've never seen anyone burning a flag, so I don't know how I would react. i would probably think, "What an idiot."

 

[dilloduck]

You probably are more patriotic than me. Or at least the things I love about America might be different than the things you love. But I've never seen anyone burning a flag, so I don't know how I would react. i would probably think, "What an idiot."

I like it when they burn themselves in the process. :happy2:

 

[007]

You probably are more patriotic than me. Or at least the things I love about America might be different than the things you love. But I've never seen anyone burning a flag, so I don't know how I would react. i would probably think, "What an idiot."

I've never seen anyone burn one either. Good thing too. For them and I. I'm sure it would be ugly.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I'm sorry you think so little of the American flag. Thank you for letting me know what kind of a liberal I'm dealing with here.

So, I'm a liberal. A traitor. I'm in favor of disrespecting America. I should have expected this response from an idiot. I think alot of the American Flag. I think so much of it, that there are five enshrined in my home. My point was simply that American citizens have the right to burn the flag. It is a right that everyone of my brethren have fought for. I don't like it, you don't like it, it doesn't fuckin' matter. It is a civil liberty. It is protected. It is a legitimate form of protest. Restricting civil liberties is a Democrat ideal Mr. Conservative.

It doesn't really matter if I'm cherry. I can tell what you are. You are a far right conservative hell bent on pissing on anything that you deem to be liberal. If someone has an opinion that you think is stupid, then you label them liberal. Well, guess what, I'm not a liberal. I'm not defined by this one issue. You, on the other hand, want to restrict a civil liberty. I say that makes you liberal.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I've never seen anyone burn one either. Good thing too. For them and I. I'm sure it would be ugly.

I've seen them burned. By the hundreds.

 

[007]

So, I'm a liberal. A traitor. I'm in favor of disrespecting America. I should have expected this response from an idiot. I think alot of the American Flag. I think so much of it, that there are five enshrined in my home. My point was simply that American citizens have the right to burn the flag. It is a right that everyone of my brethren have fought for. I don't like it, you don't like it, it doesn't fuckin' matter. It is a civil liberty. It is protected. It is a legitimate form of protest. Restricting civil liberties is a Democrat ideal Mr. Conservative.

So you disagree with me, and I'm an "idiot". I call you a liberal, you call me an IDIOT. Then you rant on about how many flags you have. SO FUCKING WHAT. Does owning more than one flag give you some sort of intellectual high ground? No, it doesn't. Get over yourself asshole. You're some sort of self proclaimed one man army that holds the flag in high reverence, but in the same breath you think it's okey dokey to just torch one at will. We'll it's your type that can't shit or get off the pot that causes this country so many of it's problems. People like you NEED people like me to keep this country on the straight and narrow. You and your type are incapable of being able to stop something that's wrong, even when you know it is. That's pathetic and spineless. You don't impress me in any shape, way or from.

And just for the record, since you have no fucking idea who you're dealing with, I have American flags in my possession that were drapped acrossed family members caskets too. Every male member of my family has served including my son in Desert Storm. My brother, God rest his soul, did two tours in Viet Nam. So don't presume to lecture me as some sort of, "I'm more of a veteran than you are". I spent eight years in the Air Force, and am a 60% service connected disabled veteran myself.

So I don't understand someone like yourself. Someone that "proclaims" he respects and loves the flag, but thinks it's just fine and dandy to burn one. here's your picture asswipe...

It doesn't really matter if I'm cherry. I can tell what you are. You are a far right conservative hell bent on pissing on anything that you deem to be liberal. If someone has an opinion that you think is stupid, then you label them liberal. Well, guess what, I'm not a liberal. I'm not defined by this one issue. You, on the other hand, want to restrict a civil liberty. I say that makes you liberal.

Yes is does matter that you're an FNG. You have to "EARN" respect here, and you haven't done that.

You need to come OFF your "fence" and grow a spine. Be a man, not some mealy mouthed sissie that stands and watches the flag of his country burned by shitheads, and does nothing about it.

 

[007]

I've seen them burned. By the hundreds.

I've seen American flags with the proper ceremony included for disposal. I'm a fourteen year continuos member of the Amrican Legion, and we would collect old flags to be given proper disposal.

What I meant when I said I'd never seen one burnt, was one burnt by a protestor. As far as I'm concerned, that's the same to me as pissing in my face, and that would tick me off.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I've seen American flags with the proper ceremony included for disposal. I'm a fourteen year continuos member of the Amrican Legion, and we would collect old flags to be given proper disposal.

What I meant when I said I'd never seen one burnt, was one burnt by a protestor. As far as I'm concerned, that's the same to me as pissing in my face, and that would tick me off.

Anyway, this debat has obviously struck nerves in both us and has deteriated into petty name calling. So, if anything I have said has offended you, then I'm truly sorry. That was not my intent. I'll leave this thread with the argument that I was trying to make.

If you burn a flag, you burn cloth. If you restrict burning the flag, you burn the ideals it stands for.

 

[GotZoom]

If you burn a flag, you burn cloth. If you restrict burning the flag, you burn the ideals it stands for.

If you believe this, then why did you say:

"I would personally defend the flag if I were ever to see it burned."

 

[CrimsonWhite]

If you believe this, then why did you say:

"I would personally defend the flag if I were ever to see it burned."

Because my personal beliefs aren't going to the beliefs of the nation on a whole. I don't like flag burning, but on a whole, banning it would be a restriction personal liberties. I would simply trust that anyone who loves this country would not burn the flag. Making a law restricting flag burning wouldn't stop it. If I were ever again to see someone burning a flag in protest, it would make me angry. But I would feel comfortable in knowing that what that flag represents can never be burned.

 

[GotZoom]

Because my personal beliefs aren't going to the beliefs of the nation on a whole. I don't like flag burning, but on a whole, banning it would be a restriction personal liberties. I would simply trust that anyone who loves this country would not burn the flag. Making a law restricting flag burning wouldn't stop it. If I were ever again to see someone burning a flag in protest, it would make me angry. But I would feel comfortable in knowing that what that flag represents can never be burned.

You would be angry but comfortable.

I understand the last part...comfortable knowing what the flag represents can never be burned...but..why angry? Because it's disrespectful?

 

[CrimsonWhite]

You would be angry but comfortable.

I understand the last part...comfortable knowing what the flag represents can never be burned...but..why angry? Because it's disrespectful?

I never said it wasn't disrespectful. You sold me. I would support banning flag burning. After reviewing my arguments, I realize that they have been flawed. Bullets flying at you will cloud your judgement. My mind can be changed with open debate, but not with incendiary remarks. Sorry if I offended anyone, but now I see where I was wrong.

 

[GotZoom]

I never said it wasn't disrespectful. You sold me. I would support banning flag burning. After reviewing my arguments, I realize that they have been flawed. Bullets flying at you will cloud your judgement. My mind can be changed with open debate, but not with incendiary remarks. Sorry if I offended anyone, but now I see where I was wrong.

Too bad you fell off the fence to "that" side and not the right one.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Too bad you fell off the fence to "that" side and not the right one.

Are American's not supposed to be angry when they see the flag burning? Whether you think it should be illegal or legal, It should still anger Americans to see it burned.

 

[CSM]

Are American's not supposed to be angry when they see the flag burning? Whether you think it should be illegal or legal, It should still anger Americans to see it burned.

Great debate all. In my opinion, an American citizen CAN burn the flag and that is not what bothers me. What bothers me is the SENTIMENT with which they burn the flag. The flag is a symbol of many different ideals not just one. One who burns the flag is symbolically rejecting ALL of those ideals, not just one. By symbolically burning all the ideals that this nation represents, the burner is symbolically proclaiming himself anti-American and actively opposed to the United States of America. That makes him an enemy in my book; perhaps not one worthy of execution but certainly one worthy of expulsion from this country.

 

[GotZoom]

Are American's not supposed to be angry when they see the flag burning? Whether you think it should be illegal or legal, It should still anger Americans to see it burned.

You rant and rave about being a proud American. You rant and rave about fighting and shedding blood for our country.

Be proud of your service. Be proud of your patriotism.

Yes. You...all of us...fought for people's right to burn the flag. I give you that. Everyone who has ever served has fought for their right to do this.

It isn't about rights. It is about respect. It is about love for country.

Those, including you, who say the flag is a piece of cloth..nothing more..just amaze me. Especially if you have served protecting our country.

The flag is the ONE thing that every citizen of the United States can reflect upon..hold in their heart and mind as the ONE thing that shows the world who we are. I have traveled all over the world and shown respect to every countries flag I have seen. I have stood at sporting events and special functions all over the world and given respect to that countries flag and national anthem.

And when I am in the United States, I sometimes even shed a tear remembering friends who have died while serving this great country.

People see the flag..they know who we are. It doesn't matter of they like us or not....they know who we are.

You should be proud of the flag and our country. If you really are, then saying the flag is nothing but a piece of cloth is pitiful.

You would stand by and watch someone disrespect the flag by burning it? Would you say anything to them? Would you turn and walk away...while being "angry?"

You know what? If I see someone exercising their right to burn the flag, I'm going to exercise my right of free speech also. By getting in their face and telling them how disrespect it is. I will exercise my right to rip the flag out of their hands and put the fire out.

And if they lay a hand on me, I will exercise my right to defend myself and kick their ass.

I hope you would be there kicking their ass too...and not berating me for violating their right to burn the flag.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

You rant and rave about being a proud American. You rant and rave about fighting and shedding blood for our country.

Be proud of your service. Be proud of your patriotism.

Yes. You...all of us...fought for people's right to burn the flag. I give you that. Everyone who has ever served has fought for their right to do this.

It isn't about rights. It is about respect. It is about love for country.

Those, including you, who say the flag is a piece of cloth..nothing more..just amaze me. Especially if you have served protecting our country.

The flag is the ONE thing that every citizen of the United States can reflect upon..hold in their heart and mind as the ONE thing that shows the world who we are. I have traveled all over the world and shown respect to every countries flag I have seen. I have stood at sporting events and special functions all over the world and given respect to that countries flag and national anthem.

And when I am in the United States, I sometimes even shed a tear remembering friends who have died while serving this great country.

People see the flag..they know who we are. It doesn't matter of they like us or not....they know who we are.

You should be proud of the flag and our country. If you really are, then saying the flag is nothing but a piece of cloth is pitiful.

You would stand by and watch someone disrespect the flag by burning it? Would you say anything to them? Would you turn and walk away...while being "angry?"

You know what? If I see someone exercising their right to burn the flag, I'm going to exercise my right of free speech also. By getting in their face and telling them how disrespect it is. I will exercise my right to rip the flag out of their hands and put the fire out.

And if they lay a hand on me, I will exercise my right to defend myself and kick their ass.

I hope you would be there kicking their ass too...and not berating me for violating their right to burn the flag.

You are right. You sold me.

 

[007]

You are right. You sold me.

Is THAT all it took??!!

 

[Gunny]

So, I'm a liberal. A traitor. I'm in favor of disrespecting America. I should have expected this response from an idiot. I think alot of the American Flag. I think so much of it, that there are five enshrined in my home. My point was simply that American citizens have the right to burn the flag. It is a right that everyone of my brethren have fought for. I don't like it, you don't like it, it doesn't fuckin' matter. It is a civil liberty. It is protected. It is a legitimate form of protest. Restricting civil liberties is a Democrat ideal Mr. Conservative.

It doesn't really matter if I'm cherry. I can tell what you are. You are a far right conservative hell bent on pissing on anything that you deem to be liberal. If someone has an opinion that you think is stupid, then you label them liberal. Well, guess what, I'm not a liberal. I'm not defined by this one issue. You, on the other hand, want to restrict a civil liberty. I say that makes you liberal.

I beg to differ. I didn't defend said flag for 20 years with anyone having the right to desecrate it in mind. You can just consider it as legal as you want, but IF anyone ever triesd it in my presence, I'm kicking the shit out of them. Simple as that.

And there's nothing idiotic about it. Your entire argument is literalist and bacwards-assed. Idiotic is burning the National colors.