Florida Concealed Carry permits handed out at 20,000 a month…and gun crime is going down, not up...

[RetiredGySgt]

All I know is that here in Las Vegas this year, home invasions are being carried out by groups of 2-4 people who are armed and I'm comforted by the fact I'm armed and can affect at least one potential crime statistic and victim.....namely me! Somehow, that reality eludes you.

Your chance of being shot when they are also armed is pretty good. Why is that comforting?

Would rather die on my feet, than on my knees...........

Dead is dead hardly seems comforting to me.

Once again, unarmed on your knees is not comforting.........armed on ones' feet, you still have a chance. Reality, still evades you.........

You realize it's very unlikely to be killed by a stranger right? If you aren't involved in criminal activity it is a very safe country.

You realize that the claim that you are killed by some one you know includes having met them at a gas station or the street and never actually interacted with them as well as knowing them for like 15 seconds before they shot you.

 

[2aguy]

And even more studies that show that concealed carry lowers the crime rate...

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

Lott...list of papers...

Of course, the single paper that Shermer cites was mentioned and discussed at length in the review of the literature that Lott provided in More Guns, Less Crime (click on screen shots to make them larger). Unfortunately, Scientific American wasn’t willing to allow a link to this list of papers.



Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

Almost all are gun nut lott. He uses surveys that don't even exist.

Again if it were true we would have the lowest crime rates in the world. We are far from that.

And of course all the other studies that aren't Lott's work although he is the preeminent researcher in the field...wow, thinking the preeminent researcher in the field would have done a lot of research.....that really is crazy thinking brain.

 

[2aguy]

Your chance of being shot when they are also armed is pretty good. Why is that comforting?

Would rather die on my feet, than on my knees...........

Dead is dead hardly seems comforting to me.

Once again, unarmed on your knees is not comforting.........armed on ones' feet, you still have a chance. Reality, still evades you.........

You realize it's very unlikely to be killed by a stranger right? If you aren't involved in criminal activity it is a very safe country.

You realize that the claim that you are killed by some one you know includes having met them at a gas station or the street and never actually interacted with them as well as knowing them for like 15 seconds before they shot you.

He knows that but lies by omission to push gun control....remember, gun grabbers have to lie because the truth, reality, the research all show them to be wrong.....if they don't lie they can't make an argument.

The debate is starting....adios....

 

[Dad2three]

American Journal Of Public Health Study: Correlation Exists Between Gun Ownership Rates And Gun Homicide Rates. A 2013 study that covered 30 years of data "found a 'robust correlation' between estimated levels of gun ownership and actual gun homicides at the state level, even when controlling for factors typically associated with homicides"

BU Researcher Finds Correlation Between Gun Ownership and Firearm Homicide | Public Relations







Harvard Injury Control Research Center: "In Homes, Cities, States And Regions In The US, Where There Are More Guns" There Are More Gun Homicides.

Homicide | Harvard Injury Control Research Center | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health



University Of Pennsylvania Firearm & Injury Center: Higher Gun Ownership Rates Linked To Higher Gun Death Rates On International Scale. Comparing high-income nations, the University of Pennsylvania Firearm & Injury Center found "The U.S. has the highest rates of both firearm homicide and private firearm ownership":

The correlation between firearm availability and rates of homicide is consistent across high income industrialized nations: where there are more firearms, there are higher rates of homicide overall. The U.S. has the highest rates of both firearm homicide and private firearm ownership. In 2001 an estimated 35% of U.S. households had a firearm


https://web.archive.org/web/2011121...u/ficap/resourcebook/pdf/monograph.pdf#page=6

 

[Brain357]

Technology probably plays the biggest role. Cameras and alarm systems all over. Criminals are caught after one or two crimes rather than after a long crime spree. Concealed carry does not effect crime rates.

the actual research shows you are wrong....

No it does not. Look at the Harvard study.

The real gun self defense studies....

I just averaged the studies......which were conducted by different researchers, from both private and public researchers, over a period of 40 years looking specifically at guns and self defense....the name of the researcher is first, then the year then the number of times they determined guns were used for self defense......notice how many of them there are and how many of them were done by gun grabbers like the clinton Justice Dept. and the obama CDC

And these aren't all of the studies either...there are more...and they support the ones below.....

A quick guide to the studies and the numbers.....the full lay out of what was studied by each study is in the links....
GunCite-Gun Control-How Often Are Guns Used in Self-Defense

GunCite Frequency of Defensive Gun Use in Previous Surveys

Field...1976....3,052,717 ( no cops, military)
DMIa 1978...2,141,512 ( no cops, military)
L.A. TIMES...1994...3,609,68 ( no cops, military)
Kleck......1994...2.5 million ( no cops, military)

Obama's CDC....2013....500,000--3million

--------------------


Bordua...1977...1,414,544

DMIb...1978...1,098,409 ( no cops, military)

Hart...1981...1.797,461 ( no cops, military)

Mauser...1990...1,487,342 ( no cops, military)

Gallup...1993...1,621,377 ( no cops, military)

DEPT. OF JUSTICE...1994...1.5 million

Journal of Quantitative Criminology--- 989,883 times per year."
(Based on survey data from a 2000 study published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology,[17] U.S. civilians use guns to defend themselves and others from crime at least 989,883 times per year.[18])

Paper: "Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment." By David McDowall and others. Journal of Quantitative Criminology, March 2000. Measuring Civilian Defensive Firearm Use: A Methodological Experiment - Springer


-------------------------------------------

Ohio...1982...771,043

Gallup...1991...777,152

Tarrance... 1994... 764,036 (no cops, military)

Lawerence Southwich Jr. 400,000 fewer violent crimes and at least 800,000 violent crimes deterred..
*****************************************
If you take the studies from that Kleck cites in his paper, 16 of them....and you only average the ones that exclude military and police shootings..the average becomes 2 million...I use those studies because I have the details on them...and they are still 10 studies (including Kleck's)....

Almost all say it is less than 2 million...

You claimed 250 uses in a year which is bald faced lie. Even using the LOWEST number from those studies it is over 650 THOUSAND uses.

Huh?

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

"Florida Concealed Carry permits handed out at 20,000 a month…and gun crime is going down, not up..."

"Fallacy: Confusing Cause and Effect

This fallacy is committed when a person assumes that one event must cause another just because the events occur together. More formally, this fallacy involves drawing the conclusion that A is the cause of B simply because A and B are in regular conjunction (and there is not a common cause that is actually the cause of A and B). The mistake being made is that the causal conclusion is being drawn without adequate justification.”

Fallacy: Confusing Cause and Effect

The OP is a textbook example, its premise fails as a consequence.

 

[Brain357]

Would rather die on my feet, than on my knees...........

Dead is dead hardly seems comforting to me.

Once again, unarmed on your knees is not comforting.........armed on ones' feet, you still have a chance. Reality, still evades you.........

You realize it's very unlikely to be killed by a stranger right? If you aren't involved in criminal activity it is a very safe country.

You realize that the claim that you are killed by some one you know includes having met them at a gas station or the street and never actually interacted with them as well as knowing them for like 15 seconds before they shot you.

He knows that but lies by omission to push gun control....remember, gun grabbers have to lie because the truth, reality, the research all show them to be wrong.....if they don't lie they can't make an argument.

The debate is starting....adios....

You use 2 million all the time even though almost every study says it's less. Talk about lying...

 

[Brain357]

Your chance of being shot when they are also armed is pretty good. Why is that comforting?

Would rather die on my feet, than on my knees...........

Dead is dead hardly seems comforting to me.

Once again, unarmed on your knees is not comforting.........armed on ones' feet, you still have a chance. Reality, still evades you.........

You realize it's very unlikely to be killed by a stranger right? If you aren't involved in criminal activity it is a very safe country.

Yes...and even safer if you carry a gun........

No then you might shoot yourself and also criminals are far more likely to shoot you if you pull a gun on them. Look at the guy in tx who was recently gunned down in defense.

 

[Dad2three]

Your chance of being shot when they are also armed is pretty good. Why is that comforting?

Would rather die on my feet, than on my knees...........

Dead is dead hardly seems comforting to me.

Once again, unarmed on your knees is not comforting.........armed on ones' feet, you still have a chance. Reality, still evades you.........

You realize it's very unlikely to be killed by a stranger right? If you aren't involved in criminal activity it is a very safe country.

You realize that the claim that you are killed by some one you know includes having met them at a gas station or the street and never actually interacted with them as well as knowing them for like 15 seconds before they shot you.

SOURCE?

 

[Dad2three]

Stanford University Research: "Totality Of The Evidence" Suggests Concealed Carry Laws Increase Violent Crime. New research from Stanford University found associations between laws allowing concealed guns to be carried in public with increased rates of rape, murder, aggravated assault, and robbery:

Now, [Stanford law professor John] Donohue and his colleagues have shown that extending the data yet another decade (1999-2010) provides the most convincing evidence to date that right-to-carry laws are associated with an increase in violent crime.

"The totality of the evidence based on educated judgments about the best statistical models suggests that right-to-carry laws are associated with substantially higher rates" of aggravated assault, rape, robbery and murder, said Donohue.

The strongest evidence was for aggravated assault, with data suggesting that right-to-carry (RTC) laws increase this crime by an estimated 8 percent - and this may actually be understated, according to the researchers.

"Our analysis of the year-by-year impact of RTC laws also suggests that RTC laws increase aggravated assaults," they wrote.

The evidence is less strong on rape and robbery, Donohue noted. The data from 1979 to 2010 provide evidence that the laws are associated with an increase in rape and robbery.

The murder rate increased in the states with existing right-to-carry laws for the period 1999-2010 when the "confounding influence" of the crack cocaine epidemic is controlled for. The study found that homicides increased in eight states that adopted right-to-carry laws during 1999-2010


Right-to-carry gun laws linked to increase in violent crime, Stanford research shows

 

[Brain357]

And even more studies that show that concealed carry lowers the crime rate...

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

Lott...list of papers...

Of course, the single paper that Shermer cites was mentioned and discussed at length in the review of the literature that Lott provided in More Guns, Less Crime (click on screen shots to make them larger). Unfortunately, Scientific American wasn’t willing to allow a link to this list of papers.



Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

Almost all are gun nut lott. He uses surveys that don't even exist.

Again if it were true we would have the lowest crime rates in the world. We are far from that.

And of course all the other studies that aren't Lott's work although he is the preeminent researcher in the field...wow, thinking the preeminent researcher in the field would have done a lot of research.....that really is crazy thinking brain.

Nobody takes him seriously.

 

[Dad2three]

Majority Of Experts Disagree That More Permissive Concealed Carry Laws Reduce Crime. According to a survey of authors of articles about firearms in peer-reviewed journals conducted by the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, 62 percent of respondents rejected the notion that permissive concealed carry laws reduce crime:

New Harvard research debunks the NRA's favorite talking points

 

[Dad2three]

And even more studies that show that concealed carry lowers the crime rate...

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

Lott...list of papers...

Of course, the single paper that Shermer cites was mentioned and discussed at length in the review of the literature that Lott provided in More Guns, Less Crime (click on screen shots to make them larger). Unfortunately, Scientific American wasn’t willing to allow a link to this list of papers.



Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

Almost all are gun nut lott. He uses surveys that don't even exist.

Again if it were true we would have the lowest crime rates in the world. We are far from that.

And of course all the other studies that aren't Lott's work although he is the preeminent researcher in the field...wow, thinking the preeminent researcher in the field would have done a lot of research.....that really is crazy thinking brain.

The "More Guns, Less Crime" Concealed Carry Hypothesis Frequently Cited By Conservative Media Has Been Repeatedly Debunked. The idea that permissive concealed carry laws reduce crime rates was popularized by economist John Lott, although Lott's research on the matter has been debunked repeatedly and Lott has faced numerous accusations of unethical research practices:

John Lott is, without exception, the most prolific and influential writer on the topic of gun violence and gun control. He has credentials that would make most academics envious--with various stints at Stanford, Rice, UCLA, Wharton, Cornell, the University of Chicago and Yale.

[...]

While his initial research was groundbreaking, further examination revealed numerous flaws. Today the "more guns, less crime" hypothesis has been thoroughly repudiated. On closer inspection his impressive credentials reveal an academic nomad, never able to secure a place in academia. His ethical transgressions range from accusations of fabricating an entire survey, to presenting faulty regressions, to creating elaborate online personas to defend his work and bash critics, to trying to revise his online history to deflect arguments. And this doesn't even begin to cover the whole host of false claims and statistics he has peddled repeatedly in articles and TV appearances.


Shooting Down the Gun Lobby’s Favorite “Academic”: A Lott of Lies

Shooting Down the Gun Lobby’s Favorite “Academic”: A Lott of Lies

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Americans are at liberty to carry concealed firearms pursuant to the right of lawful self-defense enshrined in the Second Amendment.

Citizens are not required to 'justify' the exercising a given right as a 'prerequisite' to indeed do so; it therefore makes no difference whether or not gun crime is decreasing or increasing with regard to the issuance or use of concealed weapons permits.

In fact, the ignorance and inability of the OP to engage in logical, reasoned discourse serves only to undermine the Second Amendment right, reflecting poorly on those of us who own guns and seek to defend the rights enshrined in the Second Amendment.

 

[Brain357]

And even more studies that show that concealed carry lowers the crime rate...

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

Lott...list of papers...

Of course, the single paper that Shermer cites was mentioned and discussed at length in the review of the literature that Lott provided in More Guns, Less Crime (click on screen shots to make them larger). Unfortunately, Scientific American wasn’t willing to allow a link to this list of papers.



Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

Almost all are gun nut lott. He uses surveys that don't even exist.

Again if it were true we would have the lowest crime rates in the world. We are far from that.

And of course all the other studies that aren't Lott's work although he is the preeminent researcher in the field...wow, thinking the preeminent researcher in the field would have done a lot of research.....that really is crazy thinking brain.

The "More Guns, Less Crime" Concealed Carry Hypothesis Frequently Cited By Conservative Media Has Been Repeatedly Debunked. The idea that permissive concealed carry laws reduce crime rates was popularized by economist John Lott, although Lott's research on the matter has been debunked repeatedly and Lott has faced numerous accusations of unethical research practices:

John Lott is, without exception, the most prolific and influential writer on the topic of gun violence and gun control. He has credentials that would make most academics envious--with various stints at Stanford, Rice, UCLA, Wharton, Cornell, the University of Chicago and Yale.

[...]

While his initial research was groundbreaking, further examination revealed numerous flaws. Today the "more guns, less crime" hypothesis has been thoroughly repudiated. On closer inspection his impressive credentials reveal an academic nomad, never able to secure a place in academia. His ethical transgressions range from accusations of fabricating an entire survey, to presenting faulty regressions, to creating elaborate online personas to defend his work and bash critics, to trying to revise his online history to deflect arguments. And this doesn't even begin to cover the whole host of false claims and statistics he has peddled repeatedly in articles and TV appearances.


Shooting Down the Gun Lobby’s Favorite “Academic”: A Lott of Lies

Shooting Down the Gun Lobby’s Favorite “Academic”: A Lott of Lies

And that's the guy on like 90% of the studies...

 

[2aguy]

American Journal Of Public Health Study: Correlation Exists Between Gun Ownership Rates And Gun Homicide Rates. A 2013 study that covered 30 years of data "found a 'robust correlation' between estimated levels of gun ownership and actual gun homicides at the state level, even when controlling for factors typically associated with homicides"

BU Researcher Finds Correlation Between Gun Ownership and Firearm Homicide | Public Relations







Harvard Injury Control Research Center: "In Homes, Cities, States And Regions In The US, Where There Are More Guns" There Are More Gun Homicides.

Homicide | Harvard Injury Control Research Center | Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health



University Of Pennsylvania Firearm & Injury Center: Higher Gun Ownership Rates Linked To Higher Gun Death Rates On International Scale. Comparing high-income nations, the University of Pennsylvania Firearm & Injury Center found "The U.S. has the highest rates of both firearm homicide and private firearm ownership":

The correlation between firearm availability and rates of homicide is consistent across high income industrialized nations: where there are more firearms, there are higher rates of homicide overall. The U.S. has the highest rates of both firearm homicide and private firearm ownership. In 2001 an estimated 35% of U.S. households had a firearm


https://web.archive.org/web/2011121...u/ficap/resourcebook/pdf/monograph.pdf#page=6

Sorry, those studies have been shown to be biased and poorly executed.

I have posted more studies on how guns save lives and lower the crime rate…you should look into those.

 

[2aguy]

Majority Of Experts Disagree That More Permissive Concealed Carry Laws Reduce Crime. According to a survey of authors of articles about firearms in peer-reviewed journals conducted by the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, 62 percent of respondents rejected the notion that permissive concealed carry laws reduce crime:

New Harvard research debunks the NRA's favorite talking points

Also shown to be biased and done in a way that would come out with an anti gun bias.

 

[2aguy]

Majority Of Experts Disagree That More Permissive Concealed Carry Laws Reduce Crime. According to a survey of authors of articles about firearms in peer-reviewed journals conducted by the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, 62 percent of respondents rejected the notion that permissive concealed carry laws reduce crime:

New Harvard research debunks the NRA's favorite talking points

And here is a study on the experts…actual gun researchers…..

http://crimeresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Survey-of-Economists_Final.pdf

 

[2aguy]

And even more studies that show that concealed carry lowers the crime rate...

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

Lott...list of papers...

Of course, the single paper that Shermer cites was mentioned and discussed at length in the review of the literature that Lott provided in More Guns, Less Crime (click on screen shots to make them larger). Unfortunately, Scientific American wasn’t willing to allow a link to this list of papers.



Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

Almost all are gun nut lott. He uses surveys that don't even exist.

Again if it were true we would have the lowest crime rates in the world. We are far from that.

And of course all the other studies that aren't Lott's work although he is the preeminent researcher in the field...wow, thinking the preeminent researcher in the field would have done a lot of research.....that really is crazy thinking brain.

The "More Guns, Less Crime" Concealed Carry Hypothesis Frequently Cited By Conservative Media Has Been Repeatedly Debunked. The idea that permissive concealed carry laws reduce crime rates was popularized by economist John Lott, although Lott's research on the matter has been debunked repeatedly and Lott has faced numerous accusations of unethical research practices:

John Lott is, without exception, the most prolific and influential writer on the topic of gun violence and gun control. He has credentials that would make most academics envious--with various stints at Stanford, Rice, UCLA, Wharton, Cornell, the University of Chicago and Yale.

[...]

While his initial research was groundbreaking, further examination revealed numerous flaws. Today the "more guns, less crime" hypothesis has been thoroughly repudiated. On closer inspection his impressive credentials reveal an academic nomad, never able to secure a place in academia. His ethical transgressions range from accusations of fabricating an entire survey, to presenting faulty regressions, to creating elaborate online personas to defend his work and bash critics, to trying to revise his online history to deflect arguments. And this doesn't even begin to cover the whole host of false claims and statistics he has peddled repeatedly in articles and TV appearances.


Shooting Down the Gun Lobby’s Favorite “Academic”: A Lott of Lies

Shooting Down the Gun Lobby’s Favorite “Academic”: A Lott of Lies

Of course one, he isn't the only researcher who has shown the truth about guns and two, the people who say his research has flaws have not shown his research to have flaws but have made up the flaws to attack his work.

 

[2aguy]

And even more studies that show that concealed carry lowers the crime rate...

http://crimepreventionresearchcente...-Maryland-Law-Review-Lott-Concealed-Carry.pdf

Lott...list of papers...

Of course, the single paper that Shermer cites was mentioned and discussed at length in the review of the literature that Lott provided in More Guns, Less Crime (click on screen shots to make them larger). Unfortunately, Scientific American wasn’t willing to allow a link to this list of papers.



Do Right-to-carry laws reduce violent crime? - Crime Prevention Research Center


A 2012 survey of the literature is available here. Some of the research showing that concealed carry laws reduce violent crime is listed here.

Crime, Deterrence, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by John R. Lott, Jr. and David B. Mustard, Journal of Legal Studies, 1997

The Effect of Concealed Weapons Laws: An Extreme Bound Analysis by William Alan Bartley and Mark A Cohen, published in Economic Inquiry, April 1998 (Copy available here)

Criminal Deterrence, Geographic Spillovers, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handguns by Stephen Bronars and John R. Lott, Jr., American Economic Review, May 1998

The Impact of Gun Laws on Police Deaths by David Mustard, published in the Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Privately Produced General Deterrence By BRUCE L. BENSON AND BRENT D. MAST, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Does the Right to Carry Concealed Handguns Deter Countable Crimes? Only a Count Analysis Can Say By FLORENZ PLASSMANN AND T. NICOLAUS TIDEMAN, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Testing for the Effects of Concealed Weapons Laws: Specification Errors and Robustness By CARLISLE E. MOODY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Safe-Storage Gun Laws: Accidental Deaths, Suicides, and Crime By JOHN R. LOTT, JR., AND JOHN E. WHITLEY, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Right-to-Carry Concealed Weapon Laws and Homicide in Large U.S. Counties: The Effect on Weapon Types, Victim Characteristics, and Victim-Offender Relationships By DAVID E. OLSON AND MICHAEL D. MALTZ, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

The Impact of Banning Juvenile Gun Possession By Thomas B. Marvell, Journal of Law and Economics, October 2001

Measurement Error in County-Level UCR Data by John R. Lott, Jr. and John Whitley, published in the Journal of Quantitative Criminology, June 2003, Volume 19, Issue 2, pp 185-198

Confirming More Guns, Less Crime by Florenz Plassmann and John Whitley, published in the Stanford Law Review, 2003

Using Placebo Laws to Test “More Guns, Less Crime” by Eric Helland and Alexander Tabarrok, published in Advances in Economic Analysis and Policy, 4 (1): Article 1, 2004

Multiple Victim Public Shootings, Bombings, and Right-to-Carry Concealed Handgun Laws: Contrasting Private and Public Law Enforcement By John R. Lott, Jr. and William Landes, published in The Bias Against Guns

More Readers of Gun Magazines, But Not More Crimes by Florenz Plassmann and John R. Lott, Jr.

“More Guns, Less Crime” by John R Lott, Jr. (University of Chicago Press, 2010, 3rd edition).

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody, Thomas B. Marvell, Paul R Zimmerman, and Fasil Alemante published in Review of Economics & Finance, 2014

“An examination of the effects of concealed weapons laws and assault weapons bans on state-level murder rates” by Mark Giusa published in Applied Economics Letters, Volume 21, Issue 4, 2014

“The Debate on Shall-Issue Laws” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, volume 5, number 3, September 2008

“The Debate on Shall Issue Laws, Continued” by Carlisle e. Moody and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 6, Number 2 May 2009

“Did John Lott Provide Bad Data to the NRC? A Note on Aneja, Donohue, and Zhang” by Carlisle e. Moody, John R Lott, Jr, and Thomas B. Marvell, published in Econ Journal Watch, Volume 10, Number 1, January 2013

More Guns, Less Crime: A Response to Ayres and Donohue’s 1999 book review in the American Law and Economics Review by John R. Lott, Jr.

Right-to-Carry Laws and Violent Crime Revisited: Clustering, Measurement Error, and State-by-State Break downs by John R. Lott, Jr.

Almost all are gun nut lott. He uses surveys that don't even exist.

Again if it were true we would have the lowest crime rates in the world. We are far from that.

And of course all the other studies that aren't Lott's work although he is the preeminent researcher in the field...wow, thinking the preeminent researcher in the field would have done a lot of research.....that really is crazy thinking brain.

The "More Guns, Less Crime" Concealed Carry Hypothesis Frequently Cited By Conservative Media Has Been Repeatedly Debunked. The idea that permissive concealed carry laws reduce crime rates was popularized by economist John Lott, although Lott's research on the matter has been debunked repeatedly and Lott has faced numerous accusations of unethical research practices:

John Lott is, without exception, the most prolific and influential writer on the topic of gun violence and gun control. He has credentials that would make most academics envious--with various stints at Stanford, Rice, UCLA, Wharton, Cornell, the University of Chicago and Yale.

[...]

While his initial research was groundbreaking, further examination revealed numerous flaws. Today the "more guns, less crime" hypothesis has been thoroughly repudiated. On closer inspection his impressive credentials reveal an academic nomad, never able to secure a place in academia. His ethical transgressions range from accusations of fabricating an entire survey, to presenting faulty regressions, to creating elaborate online personas to defend his work and bash critics, to trying to revise his online history to deflect arguments. And this doesn't even begin to cover the whole host of false claims and statistics he has peddled repeatedly in articles and TV appearances.


Shooting Down the Gun Lobby’s Favorite “Academic”: A Lott of Lies

Shooting Down the Gun Lobby’s Favorite “Academic”: A Lott of Lies

Yes…as I thought…they have lied about Lott's work…he did not cherry pick…he studied the implementation of concealed carry laws in every county in the United States…..so….again, anti gun extremists have had to lie to push their agenda…..