Florida gun shop owner to make business "muslim free zone."

[PaintMyHouse]

I just told you. Look up what the word means. In this case it can be, but not necessarily is, legal discrimination.

You aren't soundly addressing my questions - clearly you understand that you haven't a leg to stand on here, and you have no hope of showing my position to be unsound.

Fact is that I am required by law to not sell a gun to anyone I believe cannot legally own a gun.

Fact is that if you want to claim that I did not sell you the gun not because I believed you were unable to legally own a gun but rather because I wanted to discriminate against you because of your status as a protected class, the onus is completely and fully on you to prove that I did so.discriminate -- including the burden to prove that I indeed had no reason to believe that you were unable to legally own a gun.

Fact is you know you have no chance of that happening because you cannot prove that I did NOT see whatever I said I saw to make me believe you were unable to legally own a gun.

Eat it and smile.
I eagerly await your response that will only serve to prove you know all of what I just said is true.

this is dumb, and you know it. yes, the individual would have a rough time proving their case, although when deposed as to why you thought the person could not legally buy the seller would either have to perjure themselves or admit their deed. they would also surely be required to support the reason they made up - something that isn't easy to do.

next, if that was the policy, the accuser would be able to show a pattern. meaning that if you conveniently decide that every muslim that came in to your store was somehow probably a felon without evidence to that fact a reasonable judge and jury would tell you to fuck yourself and hand over the keys to the store, the deed to your trailer, and any other assets you had.

The burden of proof is on the person that is suing.

The muslim has to prove that he was refused service because he was a muslim.

and when all other possibilities are eliminated?

Lack of evidence isn't evidence.

Get a good attorney. If the last reason left is he's a sand ******, you're fucked.

Sure a lot of Gun Control fans out there now.

 

[ogibillm]

and when all other possibilities are eliminated?

Never happen.

of course it would. how many legit reasons are there for denying someone the sale of a gun?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

he believes that he could break the law and get away with it by perjuring himself. so basically he wants to spend some time in jail along with losing everything he owns

good luck proving that

you think it would be hard? maybe for an individual, but if that's the policy there will be a pattern. then there's the world we live in - if the bigot is going to have such a policy it's likely that they'll be visiting anti-muslim websites, posting anti-muslim stuff online. then there's going to be the fact that they will be asked why they denied the sale, and when you're making up a lie - like claiming without reason that you believe the person to be a felon - you will get caught.

That's a whole lot of "ifs".

 

[manifold]

he believes that he could break the law and get away with it by perjuring himself. so basically he wants to spend some time in jail along with losing everything he owns

good luck proving that

you think it would be hard? maybe for an individual, but if that's the policy there will be a pattern. then there's the world we live in - if the bigot is going to have such a policy it's likely that they'll be visiting anti-muslim websites, posting anti-muslim stuff online. then there's going to be the fact that they will be asked why they denied the sale, and when you're making up a lie - like claiming without reason that you believe the person to be a felon - you will get caught.

No argument there, but I did preface my example with "If he's smart..."

 

[Lonestar_logic]

You aren't soundly addressing my questions - clearly you understand that you haven't a leg to stand on here, and you have no hope of showing my position to be unsound.

Fact is that I am required by law to not sell a gun to anyone I believe cannot legally own a gun.

Fact is that if you want to claim that I did not sell you the gun not because I believed you were unable to legally own a gun but rather because I wanted to discriminate against you because of your status as a protected class, the onus is completely and fully on you to prove that I did so.discriminate -- including the burden to prove that I indeed had no reason to believe that you were unable to legally own a gun.

Fact is you know you have no chance of that happening because you cannot prove that I did NOT see whatever I said I saw to make me believe you were unable to legally own a gun.

Eat it and smile.
I eagerly await your response that will only serve to prove you know all of what I just said is true.

this is dumb, and you know it. yes, the individual would have a rough time proving their case, although when deposed as to why you thought the person could not legally buy the seller would either have to perjure themselves or admit their deed. they would also surely be required to support the reason they made up - something that isn't easy to do.

next, if that was the policy, the accuser would be able to show a pattern. meaning that if you conveniently decide that every muslim that came in to your store was somehow probably a felon without evidence to that fact a reasonable judge and jury would tell you to fuck yourself and hand over the keys to the store, the deed to your trailer, and any other assets you had.

The burden of proof is on the person that is suing.

The muslim has to prove that he was refused service because he was a muslim.

and when all other possibilities are eliminated?

Lack of evidence isn't evidence.

Get a good attorney. If the last reason left is he's a sand ******, you're fucked.

Sure a lot of Gun Control fans out there now.

Don't need one. Like I said, I've refused to sell guns to a number of people and I have not been sued.

 

[manifold]

of course it would. how many legit reasons are there for denying someone the sale of a gun?

You only need one.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Muslim isn't a religion.

Oh but it is. Stop ignore reality, like a child would.

Oh but it's not. Educate yourself, if you're capable.

The Civil rights Act of 1964 states "To be a bona fide religious belief entitled to protection under either the First Amendment or Title VII, a belief must be sincerely held, and within the believer's own scheme of things religious." (USCA Const. Amend 1: Civil Rights Act 1964 701 et seq., 717 as amended 42 USCA 2000-16)

Not too hard to meet that standard, and 1.6 billion Muslims do...

Nowhere does it state muslim is a religion. FAIL!

Wicca is a recognized religion, and so is Druidism. It works like this as well, in the US military no less.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

this is dumb, and you know it. yes, the individual would have a rough time proving their case, although when deposed as to why you thought the person could not legally buy the seller would either have to perjure themselves or admit their deed. they would also surely be required to support the reason they made up - something that isn't easy to do.

next, if that was the policy, the accuser would be able to show a pattern. meaning that if you conveniently decide that every muslim that came in to your store was somehow probably a felon without evidence to that fact a reasonable judge and jury would tell you to fuck yourself and hand over the keys to the store, the deed to your trailer, and any other assets you had.

The burden of proof is on the person that is suing.

The muslim has to prove that he was refused service because he was a muslim.

and when all other possibilities are eliminated?

Lack of evidence isn't evidence.

Get a good attorney. If the last reason left is he's a sand ******, you're fucked.

Sure a lot of Gun Control fans out there now.

Don't need one. Like I said, I've refused to sell guns to a number of people and I have not been sued.

Just a matter of time it seems.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

Muslim isn't a religion.

Oh but it is. Stop ignore reality, like a child would.

Oh but it's not. Educate yourself, if you're capable.

The Civil rights Act of 1964 states "To be a bona fide religious belief entitled to protection under either the First Amendment or Title VII, a belief must be sincerely held, and within the believer's own scheme of things religious." (USCA Const. Amend 1: Civil Rights Act 1964 701 et seq., 717 as amended 42 USCA 2000-16)

Not too hard to meet that standard, and 1.6 billion Muslims do...

Nowhere does it state muslim is a religion. FAIL!

Wicca is a recognized religion, and so is Druidism. It works like this as well, in the US military no less.

Yet muslim isn't a religion.

 

[ogibillm]

of course it would. how many legit reasons are there for denying someone the sale of a gun?

You only need one.

and again, when that is eliminated?
and you do realize that you're arguing for someone to perjure themselves, right?

 

[Lonestar_logic]

The burden of proof is on the person that is suing.

The muslim has to prove that he was refused service because he was a muslim.

and when all other possibilities are eliminated?

Lack of evidence isn't evidence.

Get a good attorney. If the last reason left is he's a sand ******, you're fucked.

Sure a lot of Gun Control fans out there now.

Don't need one. Like I said, I've refused to sell guns to a number of people and I have not been sued.

Just a matter of time it seems.

20 years and counting.

 

[Lonestar_logic]

of course it would. how many legit reasons are there for denying someone the sale of a gun?

You only need one.

and again, when that is eliminated?
and you do realize that you're arguing for someone to perjure themselves, right?

An opinion isn't a lie. If my opinion is that you are acting in a way that makes me uncomfortable selling you a gun, good luck in proving my opinion wrong.

Let me also add, that it doesn't matter if you are legally able to purchase a weapon, I am not legally bound to sell you one.

 

[manifold]

and again, when that is eliminated?
and you do realize that you're arguing for someone to perjure themselves, right?

If the reason is you believed the person might be a danger to himself or others, how are you gonna eliminate that?

And it's only perjury if you're under oath.

Do you honestly believe there aren't people out there getting away with veiled protected class discrimination every day? There is a reason why you don't hear about it... because the injured party knows they can't prove it and don't bother with the lawsuit.

 

[Ringel05]

It doesn't matter, for once (and I can't believe I'm saying this) PaintMyHouse actually got something right and I have to agree with him. Ya can't discriminate based on religion, it's covered under this little known document call the Constitution.......

Absolutely they can descriminate. It's a private business. Gov't can't descriminate but a business owner sure the hell can. Show me where, in the constitution, it tells private business owners who they can cater to.

You need to learn your laws.

The non-discrimination laws upheld as constitutional by SCOTUS...... Guess you missed that part, probably due to your astigmatic proclivity.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

and when all other possibilities are eliminated?

Lack of evidence isn't evidence.

Get a good attorney. If the last reason left is he's a sand ******, you're fucked.

Sure a lot of Gun Control fans out there now.

Don't need one. Like I said, I've refused to sell guns to a number of people and I have not been sued.

Just a matter of time it seems.

20 years and counting.

Which changes nothing at all. Thanks anyway.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

and again, when that is eliminated?
and you do realize that you're arguing for someone to perjure themselves, right?

If the reason is you believed the person might be a danger to himself or others, how are you gonna eliminate that?

And it's only perjury if you're under oath.

Do you honestly believe there aren't people out there getting away with veiled protected class discrimination every day? There is a reason why you don't hear about it... because the injured party knows they can't prove it and don't bother with the lawsuit.

Your approval of dishonesty and bigotry is noted.

 

[Ringel05]

There is no such thing as a reasonable person who believes it what can't be proven to exist. There's also no such thing as a reasonable person who believes in what cannot be proven not to exist either. Reasonable people deal only with what is known or what is unknown but likely to exist. God does not make the cut.

Whatever you gotta tell yourself I guess.

But I don't believe for a second that you don't know a single person who is religious that is also a generally reasonable person.

Anyone who believes in religion is unreasonable, by definition. And what you believe I couldn't give a damn about.

Now you're back to being the blind idiot I've come to know and..... Well come to know......

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Oh but it is. Stop ignore reality, like a child would.

Oh but it's not. Educate yourself, if you're capable.

The Civil rights Act of 1964 states "To be a bona fide religious belief entitled to protection under either the First Amendment or Title VII, a belief must be sincerely held, and within the believer's own scheme of things religious." (USCA Const. Amend 1: Civil Rights Act 1964 701 et seq., 717 as amended 42 USCA 2000-16)

Not too hard to meet that standard, and 1.6 billion Muslims do...

Nowhere does it state muslim is a religion. FAIL!

Wicca is a recognized religion, and so is Druidism. It works like this as well, in the US military no less.

Yet muslim isn't a religion.

You can say that all you like, and it will still be untrue.

 

[manifold]

Your approval of dishonesty and bigotry is noted.

As is your concession.

 

[ogibillm]

and again, when that is eliminated?
and you do realize that you're arguing for someone to perjure themselves, right?

If the reason is you believed the person might be a danger to himself or others, how are you gonna eliminate that?

And it's only perjury if you're under oath.

Do you honestly believe there aren't people out there getting away with veiled protected class discrimination every day? There is a reason why you don't hear about it... because the injured party knows they can't prove it and don't bother with the lawsuit.

and when they're deposed, and the question asked "why did you think that?" what will happen? what will happen when the security footage doesn't show what they claim, or when the other buyers that day didn't see what was claimed. what happens when suddenly every muslim that tries to buy a gun is somehow believed to be a danger to themselves or others for no reason?