For those who oppose the new North Carolina "anti-LGBT" law

[Luddly Neddite]

Actually, from my perspective, that's what this law is fighting for. You're looking at this the wrong way.

This law says that this guy should be using the ladies room:

I don't get it. Provided that looks are deceiving, this guy looks like a member of the Yakuza or something.

His name is Buck Angel. He's a porn star, and he used to be Susan. He still has a vagina.

Which bathroom do you think he should use?

Did he/she have a sex change?

It's he - and he has not had genital reassignment surgery

Simple. If he's a he, then he should be in the men's bathroom. The fact we are acknowledging his gender as male means he should use the bathroom that matches his apparent gender. I see him as a man. He has no female characteristics other than what's between his legs.

That's not the gender that's on his birth certificate.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Are you saying that you think the tattooed guy I posted should be using the ladies room?

Just what are you getting at? I don't even know this Buck Angel guy. I am going to avoid your attempts to place me in a dilemma here, Doc.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Are you saying that you think the tattooed guy I posted should be using the ladies room?

Just what are you getting at? I don't even know this Buck Angel guy. I am going to avoid your attempts to place me in a dilemma here, Doc.

I think I made my point fairly clear.

According to the law that you're championing in this thread, he would be forced to use the ladies room.

 

[BULLDOG]

You're looking at this the wrong way.

How am I? I read the full text of the law. If you were in the men's bathroom and a woman walks in, what would you do? How would you feel? Awkward? Embarrassed? Unaffected?

The societal norm is that men go into men's bathrooms and women go into women's bathroom. You go into a facility that matches your biological gender, emphasis on biological.

The man in #3 is biologically a woman. You comfortable with that person walking into a bathroom full of girls?

 

[TemplarKormac]

I don't get it. Provided that looks are deceiving, this guy looks like a member of the Yakuza or something.

His name is Buck Angel. He's a porn star, and he used to be Susan. He still has a vagina.

Which bathroom do you think he should use?

Did he/she have a sex change?

It's he - and he has not had genital reassignment surgery

Simple. If he's a he, then he should be in the men's bathroom. The fact we are acknowledging his gender as male means he should use the bathroom that matches his apparent gender. I see him as a man. He has no female characteristics other than what's between his legs.

Do you realize that you're contradicting yourself in this thread?

No.

Since you jumped me with this Buck Angel guy, who's background I didn't know until you told me, I am bound to be thrown off.

You're proposing a quandary.

Was he born male or born female? You assumed I would know this person simply by you showing me his picture.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

His name is Buck Angel. He's a porn star, and he used to be Susan. He still has a vagina.

Which bathroom do you think he should use?

Did he/she have a sex change?

It's he - and he has not had genital reassignment surgery

Simple. If he's a he, then he should be in the men's bathroom. The fact we are acknowledging his gender as male means he should use the bathroom that matches his apparent gender. I see him as a man. He has no female characteristics other than what's between his legs.

Do you realize that you're contradicting yourself in this thread?

No.

Since you jumped me with this Buck Angel guy, who's background I didn't know until you told me, I am bound to be thrown off.

You're proposing a quandary.

This person is transsexual, not transgender. I see a big difference here. Was he born male or born female? You assumed I would know this person simply by you showing me his picture.

"Transgender" is the proper term. And as I've said repeatedly in this thread, he was born female.

 

[BULLDOG]

His name is Buck Angel. He's a porn star, and he used to be Susan. He still has a vagina.

Which bathroom do you think he should use?

Did he/she have a sex change?

It's he - and he has not had genital reassignment surgery

Simple. If he's a he, then he should be in the men's bathroom. The fact we are acknowledging his gender as male means he should use the bathroom that matches his apparent gender. I see him as a man. He has no female characteristics other than what's between his legs.

Do you realize that you're contradicting yourself in this thread?

No.

Since you jumped me with this Buck Angel guy, who's background I didn't know until you told me, I am bound to be thrown off.

You're proposing a quandary.

Was he born male or born female? You assumed I would know this person simply by you showing me his picture.

That's kind of the point isn't it? You planning to have a genital inspector stationed in each and every bathroom?

 

[Anathema]

What about the thousands of uni-sex bathrooms already in existence and use?

Can't say I've ever seen a multiple toilet unisex bathroom. The ones I've seen are all single user affairs with lockable doors.

My preference would be an "IT" bathroom, for everyone too stupid or uneducated to know what they are... it wouls be an open-air trench out back with the other animals.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

This is what you're fighting for.

Own it. I cannot honestly believe you would want something like this to happen.

This is as ignorant as it is ignorant and wrong – this fails as a red herring fallacy, more lies and demagoguery from the reprehensible social right.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Transgender" is the proper term. And as I've said repeatedly in this thread, he was born female.

You first posted a picture of this person, said, "according to this law he would be forced to use the ladies restroom."

You didn't state from the beginning he was born female. Given that I have the proper information, I will attempt to answer you forthrightly.

This is a quandary. And I will be honest, his/her case is very unique; albeit an outlier. You seem to think this example is the ultimate proven exception to the rule. I disagree. I've used unisex bathrooms before, and I had no problem with it. The catch is that people wait in line, and they don't all use the same bathroom at the same given time.

So to answer your question, he wouldn't be forced to use either. Unisex bathrooms already exist, and seem to me to be the proper solution, they don't discriminate on the basis of anatomical or perceived gender. And you can have more than one if you want. Two unisex bathrooms with no gender assigned to them whatsoever.

The law as I saw it seeks end "gender inclusive" bathrooms, not unisex bathrooms.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

So, you think the guy whose picture I posted should use the ladies room?

I appreciate the attempt to trap me in my own logic, close, but no.

If he is a "transvestite" then that is a whole different ballgame. And that's what I'm assuming you're telling me.

One cannot be ‘trapped’ in something he doesn’t possess.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Transgender" is the proper term. And as I've said repeatedly in this thread, he was born female.

You first posted a picture of this person, said, "according to this law he would be forced to use the ladies restroom."

You didn't state from the beginning he was born female.

Now, that's a quandary, I will be honest, his/her case is very unique; albeit an outlier. You seem to think this example is the ultimate proven exception to the rule. I disagree. I've used unisex bathrooms before, and I had no problem with it. The catch is that people wait in line, and they don't all use the same bathroom at the same given time.

So to answer your question, he wouldn't be forced to use either. Unisex bathrooms already exist, and seem to me to be the proper solution, they don't discriminate on the basis of anatomical or perceived gender.

He's not an "outlier" or unique, he's exactly who this law is targeting. The vast majority of transgender people don't look like the gender they were born with. Buck Angel is absolutely representative of transgender people.

 

[Avatar4321]

Actually this is the guy they want to let use the women's room

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

What about the thousands of uni-sex bathrooms already in existence and use?

Who is going to be checking out people's genitals?

What about the RWNJs already creeping around, looking at genitals?

How about the uni-sex college dorms?

And uni-sex college/university bathrooms?

More government interfering in citizens’ private lives at the behest of the authoritarian right.

 

[TemplarKormac]

The vast majority of transgender people don't look like the gender they were born with.

You spoke of me contradicting myself earlier... but this statement sounds in every way like a contradiction on its face.

How does a girl, born as a girl, suddenly change appearance the moment she identifies as a boy? How does this mechanism work exactly? How do they not "look like the gender they were born with"?

It's impossible to me.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

The vast majority of transgender people don't look like the gender they were born with.

You spoke of me contradicting myself earlier... but this statement sounds in every way like a contradiction on its face.

How does a girl, born as a girl, suddenly change appearance the moment she identifies as a boy? How does this mechanism work exactly?

A person doesn't become transgender the moment they "identify" as the opposite gender, they become transgender when they "present" as the opposite gender. There's no contradiction in what I said.

The weird boogeyman of a creepy dude claiming to "identify" as a woman to peep on girls in the bathroom doesn't exist. It's never happened.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

What about the thousands of uni-sex bathrooms already in existence and use?

Who is going to be checking out people's genitals?

What about the RWNJs already creeping around, looking at genitals?

How about the uni-sex college dorms?

And uni-sex college/university bathrooms?

More government interfering in citizens’ private lives at the behest of the authoritarian right.

Until you people polluted this country, it was very simple: men used mens room and women used women's room. How much more complicated can it be?

And I don't want my grand daughter forced to use a restroom with guys because liberals created some new category of freaks. If you can't afford mental health treatment for your issues, that should not be the problem of the public.

 

[JoeB131]

Own it. I cannot honestly believe you would want something like this to happen.

I'd tell you to get over your sexual hangups, but I don't think you'd get off hte couch long enough to do it.

Okay, let's get real here. This "Keep the trannies out of locker room" law is about as necessary as a "Keep the Jews from Poisoning the Wells" law. It's not addressing something that is actually happening, it's pandering to the nastiest bigotries.

 

[JoeB131]

Until you people polluted this country, it was very simple: men used mens room and women used women's room. How much more complicated can it be?

And I don't want my grand daughter forced to use a restroom with guys because liberals created some new category of freaks. If you can't afford mental health treatment for your issues, that should not be the problem of the public.

Why do you guys think there is something sexual going on in bathrooms?

A lot of workplaces have unisex bathrooms, and you know what, it's just fine. Everyone kind of copes.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The vast majority of transgender people don't look like the gender they were born with.

You spoke of me contradicting myself earlier... but this statement sounds in every way like a contradiction on its face.

How does a girl, born as a girl, suddenly change appearance the moment she identifies as a boy? How does this mechanism work exactly?

A person doesn't become transgender the moment they "identify" as the opposite gender, they become transgender when they "present" as the opposite gender. There's no contradiction in what I said.

The weird boogeyman of a creepy dude claiming to "identify" as a woman to peep on girls in the bathroom doesn't exist. It's never happened.

adjective, Also, transgendered
1.
noting or relating to a person whose genderidentity does not correspond to that person’sbiological sex assigned at birth: the transgendermovement;
transgender rights.
2.
noting or relating to a person who does notconform to societal gender norms or roles.

the definition of transgender

So what's stopping any pervert from making this claim?