For You Gun Hating Nutters

[Skull Pilot]

Crime went down with the Bill Clinton crime bill. Dems need to go back to that.

No...sorry. The entire premise of the anti gun movement.....more guns = more crime....and that is a lie.....

This is the truth....normal, law abiding gun owners do not increase the gun crime rate, the gun murder rate or the violent crime rate....in fact, more studies on the subject show they help reduce all 3 categories.....

We went from 200 million guns in private hands in the 1990s and 4.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 1997...to close to 400-600 million guns in private hands and over 15.7 million people carrying guns for self defense in 2017...guess what happened...


-- gun murder down 49%
--gun crime down 75%
--violent crime down 72%

Gun Homicide Rate Down 49% Since 1993 Peak; Public Unaware

Compared with 1993, the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49% lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation’s population grew. The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm—assaults, robberies and sex crimes—was 75% lower in 2011 than in 1993. Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72%) over two decades.

What does that have to do with what I said?

Everything......it points out that my idea, locking up actual criminals reduces the crime rate...it also points out that the basic premise of the anti gun movement is a lie.....and that normal, law abiding people carrying guns, 15.7-16 million people....does not increase the crime rate....

Locking up criminals lowers the crime rate...and yet democrats fight that solution...

That's what the bill Clinton crime bill did...

He apologized for it, and said it was a mistake....democrats do not take violent crime seriously.....they don't care about actual criminals.....

And again, as reality shows.....more guns in the hands of normal, law abiding gun owners ,does not increase the gun crime rate....

I would say they care more about criminals than they do the victims of criminals

 

[Skull Pilot]

ANyone have a site/ link to some good gun crime or murder stats?

The stats I found include suicide .

Try the FBI

The links to the FBI crime stats have been posted over and over again in many threads

 

[Skull Pilot]

If different countries have different definitions of crime than any comparison in invalid. You know like the UK not counting a homicide as murder unless there is an actual conviction.

Since many of our states are larger than many of the countries you refer to then any one US state to foreign country is a better comparison.

Most US states have murder rates comparable to any other nation

You can't cherrypick aspects of your country. The stats are the stats. And it is done per capita so population is irrelevant

Obama was right when he said 'this type of mass violence does not happen in other developed countries'

Of course I can.

more than 50% of all murders are committed in just 2% of all the counties in the entire united states

That is a significant statistical anomaly

 

[Skull Pilot]

If different countries have different definitions of crime than any comparison in invalid. You know like the UK not counting a homicide as murder unless there is an actual conviction.

Since many of our states are larger than many of the countries you refer to then any one US state to foreign country is a better comparison.

Most US states have murder rates comparable to any other nation

You can't cherrypick aspects of your country. The stats are the stats. And it is done per capita so population is irrelevant

Obama was right when he said 'this type of mass violence does not happen in other developed countries'

So are we talking murder rates or mass shooting rates?

Seems to me you are cherry picking

FYI less than 1% of all murders in the US occur in mass shooting events

And you always seem to forget that most Americans don't give a shit what happens in other countries

 

[Skull Pilot]

None. Rights don't need reasons

And it has already been hashed over that the militia was and still is secondary to the individual right to keep and bear arms

They are only rights because your constitution has them in there. And they can be amended or taken out. Hashed over by who? The USSC? 9 people trying to decide what 200+ year old dead people thought. None of them had consensus either.

Yes they can be and if the people wanted to amend or eliminate the second it would have been done by now

 

[Timmy]

If different countries have different definitions of crime than any comparison in invalid. You know like the UK not counting a homicide as murder unless there is an actual conviction.

Since many of our states are larger than many of the countries you refer to then any one US state to foreign country is a better comparison.

Most US states have murder rates comparable to any other nation

You can't cherrypick aspects of your country. The stats are the stats. And it is done per capita so population is irrelevant

Obama was right when he said 'this type of mass violence does not happen in other developed countries'

So are we talking murder rates or mass shooting rates?

Seems to me you are cherry picking

FYI less than 1% of all murders in the US occur in mass shooting events

And you always seem to forget that most Americans don't give a shit what happens in other countries

Not mass shootings. Just shootings. We are talking about gun control in this thread. So I don't want to include suicides and I also don't think it makes sense to include non-gun murders.

 

[Brain357]

If different countries have different definitions of crime than any comparison in invalid. You know like the UK not counting a homicide as murder unless there is an actual conviction.

Since many of our states are larger than many of the countries you refer to then any one US state to foreign country is a better comparison.

Most US states have murder rates comparable to any other nation

You can't cherrypick aspects of your country. The stats are the stats. And it is done per capita so population is irrelevant

Obama was right when he said 'this type of mass violence does not happen in other developed countries'

So are we talking murder rates or mass shooting rates?

Seems to me you are cherry picking

FYI less than 1% of all murders in the US occur in mass shooting events

And you always seem to forget that most Americans don't give a shit what happens in other countries

Not mass shootings. Just shootings. We are talking about gun control in this thread. So I don't want to include suicides and I also don't think it makes sense to include non-gun murders.

Cdc keeps the numbers. This link breaks them down. One would guess numbers have been going up in more recent years.

US Gun Deaths, 1999-2014 - Gun Control - ProCon.org

 

[2aguy]

[QU



Yeah....this map shows it....all of the murders in the United States.....the highest concentration? Where they have the most restrictive gun laws...

Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders - Crime Prevention Research Center

View attachment 138610

That murder map would be almost a perfect overlay to the areas that vote Democrat.

You know....that map comes from the Crime Prevention Research Center, Dr. Lott's group.....you could email him and recommend that they do that.....they respond to emails and that would be a great image...

 

[2aguy]

If different countries have different definitions of crime than any comparison in invalid. You know like the UK not counting a homicide as murder unless there is an actual conviction.

Since many of our states are larger than many of the countries you refer to then any one US state to foreign country is a better comparison.

Most US states have murder rates comparable to any other nation

You can't cherrypick aspects of your country. The stats are the stats. And it is done per capita so population is irrelevant

Obama was right when he said 'this type of mass violence does not happen in other developed countries'

So are we talking murder rates or mass shooting rates?

Seems to me you are cherry picking

FYI less than 1% of all murders in the US occur in mass shooting events

And you always seem to forget that most Americans don't give a shit what happens in other countries

Not mass shootings. Just shootings. We are talking about gun control in this thread. So I don't want to include suicides and I also don't think it makes sense to include non-gun murders.

And then you have the fact that 70-80% of victims of our shootings, and the shootings in Britain and Australia, are criminals engaged in the criminal lifestyle. And of the other murders, many of those are the friends and family of the criminals.

 

[Brain357]

[QU



Yeah....this map shows it....all of the murders in the United States.....the highest concentration? Where they have the most restrictive gun laws...

Murders in US very concentrated: 54% of US counties in 2014 had zero murders, 2% of counties have 51% of the murders - Crime Prevention Research Center

View attachment 138610

That murder map would be almost a perfect overlay to the areas that vote Democrat.

You know....that map comes from the Crime Prevention Research Center, Dr. Lott's group.....you could email him and recommend that they do that.....they respond to emails and that would be a great image...

You will find it matches up with areas with large populations. Nothing surprising there.

 

[2aguy]

If different countries have different definitions of crime than any comparison in invalid. You know like the UK not counting a homicide as murder unless there is an actual conviction.

Since many of our states are larger than many of the countries you refer to then any one US state to foreign country is a better comparison.

Most US states have murder rates comparable to any other nation

You can't cherrypick aspects of your country. The stats are the stats. And it is done per capita so population is irrelevant

Obama was right when he said 'this type of mass violence does not happen in other developed countries'

So are we talking murder rates or mass shooting rates?

Seems to me you are cherry picking

FYI less than 1% of all murders in the US occur in mass shooting events

And you always seem to forget that most Americans don't give a shit what happens in other countries

Not mass shootings. Just shootings. We are talking about gun control in this thread. So I don't want to include suicides and I also don't think it makes sense to include non-gun murders.

Cdc keeps the numbers. This link breaks them down. One would guess numbers have been going up in more recent years.

US Gun Deaths, 1999-2014 - Gun Control - ProCon.org

And that would not be true. The FBI, who keeps a total of the bodies on the ground from actual gun crime shows it has been going down, except for the year following Ferguson when it went up...after the police pulled back from active policing in the major cities.

 

[Brain357]

If different countries have different definitions of crime than any comparison in invalid. You know like the UK not counting a homicide as murder unless there is an actual conviction.

Since many of our states are larger than many of the countries you refer to then any one US state to foreign country is a better comparison.

Most US states have murder rates comparable to any other nation

You can't cherrypick aspects of your country. The stats are the stats. And it is done per capita so population is irrelevant

Obama was right when he said 'this type of mass violence does not happen in other developed countries'

So are we talking murder rates or mass shooting rates?

Seems to me you are cherry picking

FYI less than 1% of all murders in the US occur in mass shooting events

And you always seem to forget that most Americans don't give a shit what happens in other countries

Not mass shootings. Just shootings. We are talking about gun control in this thread. So I don't want to include suicides and I also don't think it makes sense to include non-gun murders.

And then you have the fact that 70-80% of victims of our shootings, and the shootings in Britain and Australia, are criminals engaged in the criminal lifestyle. And of the other murders, many of those are the friends and family of the criminals.

So if you are not involved in criminal activity you are unlikely to be shot.

 

[Brain357]

If different countries have different definitions of crime than any comparison in invalid. You know like the UK not counting a homicide as murder unless there is an actual conviction.

Since many of our states are larger than many of the countries you refer to then any one US state to foreign country is a better comparison.

Most US states have murder rates comparable to any other nation

You can't cherrypick aspects of your country. The stats are the stats. And it is done per capita so population is irrelevant

Obama was right when he said 'this type of mass violence does not happen in other developed countries'

So are we talking murder rates or mass shooting rates?

Seems to me you are cherry picking

FYI less than 1% of all murders in the US occur in mass shooting events

And you always seem to forget that most Americans don't give a shit what happens in other countries

Not mass shootings. Just shootings. We are talking about gun control in this thread. So I don't want to include suicides and I also don't think it makes sense to include non-gun murders.

Cdc keeps the numbers. This link breaks them down. One would guess numbers have been going up in more recent years.

US Gun Deaths, 1999-2014 - Gun Control - ProCon.org

And that would not be true. The FBI, who keeps a total of the bodies on the ground from actual gun crime shows it has been going down, except for the year following Ferguson when it went up...after the police pulled back from active policing in the major cities.

If you have numbers for 2015 and 2016 please share. 2017 doesn't seem to be doing well, but news can be deceiving.

 

[2aguy]

If different countries have different definitions of crime than any comparison in invalid. You know like the UK not counting a homicide as murder unless there is an actual conviction.

Since many of our states are larger than many of the countries you refer to then any one US state to foreign country is a better comparison.

Most US states have murder rates comparable to any other nation

You can't cherrypick aspects of your country. The stats are the stats. And it is done per capita so population is irrelevant

Obama was right when he said 'this type of mass violence does not happen in other developed countries'

So are we talking murder rates or mass shooting rates?

Seems to me you are cherry picking

FYI less than 1% of all murders in the US occur in mass shooting events

And you always seem to forget that most Americans don't give a shit what happens in other countries

Not mass shootings. Just shootings. We are talking about gun control in this thread. So I don't want to include suicides and I also don't think it makes sense to include non-gun murders.

Cdc keeps the numbers. This link breaks them down. One would guess numbers have been going up in more recent years.

US Gun Deaths, 1999-2014 - Gun Control - ProCon.org

Here we go....a country of over 320 million people...

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8



gun murder rate 1997 -2000


1997..... 10,729
1998..... 9,257
1999..... 8,480
2000..... 8,493
2001..... 8,719
2002... 9,369
2003.... 9,638
2004..... 9,385
2005.... 10,158
2006.... 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,312
2015--9,616

 

[2aguy]

If different countries have different definitions of crime than any comparison in invalid. You know like the UK not counting a homicide as murder unless there is an actual conviction.

Since many of our states are larger than many of the countries you refer to then any one US state to foreign country is a better comparison.

Most US states have murder rates comparable to any other nation

You can't cherrypick aspects of your country. The stats are the stats. And it is done per capita so population is irrelevant

Obama was right when he said 'this type of mass violence does not happen in other developed countries'

So are we talking murder rates or mass shooting rates?

Seems to me you are cherry picking

FYI less than 1% of all murders in the US occur in mass shooting events

And you always seem to forget that most Americans don't give a shit what happens in other countries

Not mass shootings. Just shootings. We are talking about gun control in this thread. So I don't want to include suicides and I also don't think it makes sense to include non-gun murders.

And then you have the fact that 70-80% of victims of our shootings, and the shootings in Britain and Australia, are criminals engaged in the criminal lifestyle. And of the other murders, many of those are the friends and family of the criminals.

So if you are not involved in criminal activity you are unlikely to be shot.

Yep, unlikely, but you still have 20% of murders where the victim isn't a criminal.

 

[2aguy]

If different countries have different definitions of crime than any comparison in invalid. You know like the UK not counting a homicide as murder unless there is an actual conviction.

Since many of our states are larger than many of the countries you refer to then any one US state to foreign country is a better comparison.

Most US states have murder rates comparable to any other nation

You can't cherrypick aspects of your country. The stats are the stats. And it is done per capita so population is irrelevant

Obama was right when he said 'this type of mass violence does not happen in other developed countries'

So are we talking murder rates or mass shooting rates?

Seems to me you are cherry picking

FYI less than 1% of all murders in the US occur in mass shooting events

And you always seem to forget that most Americans don't give a shit what happens in other countries

Not mass shootings. Just shootings. We are talking about gun control in this thread. So I don't want to include suicides and I also don't think it makes sense to include non-gun murders.

And then you have the fact that 70-80% of victims of our shootings, and the shootings in Britain and Australia, are criminals engaged in the criminal lifestyle. And of the other murders, many of those are the friends and family of the criminals.

So if you are not involved in criminal activity you are unlikely to be shot.

Yep.......but you still have criminals, they still shoot people, the still rape, rob and murder people and they use all sorts of tools to do it besides guns....

 

[Brain357]

If different countries have different definitions of crime than any comparison in invalid. You know like the UK not counting a homicide as murder unless there is an actual conviction.

Since many of our states are larger than many of the countries you refer to then any one US state to foreign country is a better comparison.

Most US states have murder rates comparable to any other nation

You can't cherrypick aspects of your country. The stats are the stats. And it is done per capita so population is irrelevant

Obama was right when he said 'this type of mass violence does not happen in other developed countries'

So are we talking murder rates or mass shooting rates?

Seems to me you are cherry picking

FYI less than 1% of all murders in the US occur in mass shooting events

And you always seem to forget that most Americans don't give a shit what happens in other countries

Not mass shootings. Just shootings. We are talking about gun control in this thread. So I don't want to include suicides and I also don't think it makes sense to include non-gun murders.

Cdc keeps the numbers. This link breaks them down. One would guess numbers have been going up in more recent years.

US Gun Deaths, 1999-2014 - Gun Control - ProCon.org

Here we go....a country of over 320 million people...

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8



gun murder rate 1997 -2000


1997..... 10,729
1998..... 9,257
1999..... 8,480
2000..... 8,493
2001..... 8,719
2002... 9,369
2003.... 9,638
2004..... 9,385
2005.... 10,158
2006.... 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,312
2015--9,616

Wrong link? Link goes to 2014 and numbers don't match what you posted.

 

[2aguy]

You can't cherrypick aspects of your country. The stats are the stats. And it is done per capita so population is irrelevant

Obama was right when he said 'this type of mass violence does not happen in other developed countries'

So are we talking murder rates or mass shooting rates?

Seems to me you are cherry picking

FYI less than 1% of all murders in the US occur in mass shooting events

And you always seem to forget that most Americans don't give a shit what happens in other countries

Not mass shootings. Just shootings. We are talking about gun control in this thread. So I don't want to include suicides and I also don't think it makes sense to include non-gun murders.

Cdc keeps the numbers. This link breaks them down. One would guess numbers have been going up in more recent years.

US Gun Deaths, 1999-2014 - Gun Control - ProCon.org

And that would not be true. The FBI, who keeps a total of the bodies on the ground from actual gun crime shows it has been going down, except for the year following Ferguson when it went up...after the police pulled back from active policing in the major cities.

If you have numbers for 2015 and 2016 please share. 2017 doesn't seem to be doing well, but news can be deceiving.

2017 is post Ferguson.....the democrats have attacked the police and in the major cities they have pulled back....it is called the Ferguson Effect. They no longer pro actively respond to suspicious people, they only respond to 911 calls....and add on top of that reduced manpower as democrat mayors spend money on everything but police.....and then you have cities like Baltimore, where cops are quiting and retiring and they can't or won't replace them.

 

[Brain357]

You can't cherrypick aspects of your country. The stats are the stats. And it is done per capita so population is irrelevant

Obama was right when he said 'this type of mass violence does not happen in other developed countries'

So are we talking murder rates or mass shooting rates?

Seems to me you are cherry picking

FYI less than 1% of all murders in the US occur in mass shooting events

And you always seem to forget that most Americans don't give a shit what happens in other countries

Not mass shootings. Just shootings. We are talking about gun control in this thread. So I don't want to include suicides and I also don't think it makes sense to include non-gun murders.

And then you have the fact that 70-80% of victims of our shootings, and the shootings in Britain and Australia, are criminals engaged in the criminal lifestyle. And of the other murders, many of those are the friends and family of the criminals.

So if you are not involved in criminal activity you are unlikely to be shot.

Yep, unlikely, but you still have 20% of murders where the victim isn't a criminal.

Most of that 20% the victim is killed by family/lover so they probably know they are in dangerous situation.

 

[2aguy]

You can't cherrypick aspects of your country. The stats are the stats. And it is done per capita so population is irrelevant

Obama was right when he said 'this type of mass violence does not happen in other developed countries'

So are we talking murder rates or mass shooting rates?

Seems to me you are cherry picking

FYI less than 1% of all murders in the US occur in mass shooting events

And you always seem to forget that most Americans don't give a shit what happens in other countries

Not mass shootings. Just shootings. We are talking about gun control in this thread. So I don't want to include suicides and I also don't think it makes sense to include non-gun murders.

Cdc keeps the numbers. This link breaks them down. One would guess numbers have been going up in more recent years.

US Gun Deaths, 1999-2014 - Gun Control - ProCon.org

Here we go....a country of over 320 million people...

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8



gun murder rate 1997 -2000


1997..... 10,729
1998..... 9,257
1999..... 8,480
2000..... 8,493
2001..... 8,719
2002... 9,369
2003.... 9,638
2004..... 9,385
2005.... 10,158
2006.... 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,312
2015--9,616

Wrong link? Link goes to 2014 and numbers don't match what you posted.

The early numbers have another link....the FBI changed their data presentation...try this...

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

From 2014…..and I added 2011……

2006

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8 and

2006 fbi table 8

Murder by firearm….

Federal Bureau of Investigation - Uniform Crime Reports - 2000

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

gun murder rate 1997 -2000


1997..... 10,729
1998..... 9,257
1999..... 8,480
2000..... 8,493
2001..... 8,719
2002... 9,369
2003.... 9,638
2004..... 9,385
2005.... 10,158
2006.... 10,225
2007 10,129
2008-- 9,528
2009-- 9,199
2010- 8,874
2011-- 8,653
2012-- 8,897
2013-- 8,454
2014-- 8,312
2015--9,616

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