Ford keeping V8's to 2040!!

[Cardinal Carminative]

They also alert you when the battery is about to spontaneously combust. It's actually a series of messages of increasing urgency. Takes about 2 minutes for the sequence to get to "get out of the car, the car is on fire."

Yeah, it would have been great if the Pinto had that back in the 70's.

 

[ding]

I thought I gave several examples. The transistor which is at the core of most of the electronics you use. The agriculture that feeds you. That stuff is government-mandate related.

All related to one company; Bell Laboratories; which according to you was due to a concession for a monopoly. Which as of yet is unsubstantiated. Do you have any other companies to back up your statement of "lot's of industries?"

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Water?

It wouldn't be a great economical system to electrolytically dissociate H2O to create fuel for cars.

When I was working on H2 storage for the fuel cell transportation sector we just treated H2 as a given. But a lot of the technology on the end of generating H2 was being developed. As the other poster noted it was probably going to come from hydrocarbons. In fact at one point I believe Argonne or UC was working on a fuel cell vehicle that would start off with methanol and break it to form H2 and then run the fuel cell. One of the big hits on it is a methanol refueling station would be wicked dangerous since methanol is flammable and if I recall burns clear.

I wish fuel cell vehicles had been able to overcome H2 storage but I can still see issue upstream of it.

 

[skookerasbil]

The amount of the earth's surface that would need to be covered by solar arrays sufficient to overcome the current forcing due to human activities (which is the primary reason we are not cooling and heading back into another glaciation) would be so phenomenally large as to be mind-boggling.

Why don't you worry about people who lay tarps on their yard to dry them?

But less than 5% of the population are human racists.

You'll just have to build an emergency ark honey

 

[skookerasbil]

I love this forum

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

All related to one company; Bell Laboratories

Bell labs is not the same as the USDA ARS or NASA.

Which as of yet is unsubstantiated.

Read the book.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

But less than 5% of the population are human racists.

You'll just have to build an emergency ark honey

???????????

 

[ding]

Yeah:


Check it out. It's the history of Bell Labs. Bell Telephone wound up being the defacto monopoly in the early days of telephony and the government effectively told them that they wouldn't bust them up or make them give up their monopoly if they developed the Labs to provide additional technology.

It's a model like the USDA Agricultural Research Service which as been in existence since the 1800's. The mandate is to develop technology for agriculture and then provide the IP and technology to American farmers at reduced or no license fee to utilize. The number of advancements that came from the USDA are amazing. You can read them here:

about : USDA ARS

Can you quote the specific part that says the US government mandated Bell Laboratories to develop certain technologies in exchange for a monopoly?

And don't forget NASA! Those folks effectively developed a HUGE chunk of technology you enjoy. Medical science was also affected.

NASA is a government agency which operates under government control. I'm looking for examples of "lots of industries" where the government mandated technology to be developed like you claimed.

 

[ding]

^^^A direct subsidy^^^^

Incorrect. A standard deduction for all companies that spend capital dollars.

Coal is a fossil fuel which was, until rather recently, the backbone of our electric grid. Now it is being supplanted by natural gas.

Your claim was oil companies, dear. Not coal companies.

Still a subsidy.

Yes!!! The only one and it's been expired for 20 years. And even that was not a mandate but a TAX CREDIT.

Unfortunately the experts in this field call them "subsidies". You, however, usually disagree with the experts. Either you are a lone genius or a crackpot.

Flip a coin.

No. I'm being honest. You on the other hand don't know what you are talking about and are being dishonest.

 

[ding]

Why do you guys act like there was NEVER a time when gas stations were few and far between? Is it because you didn't live through it so it must not have been real?

Probably because ICE vehicles were not mandated by the government but instead were organically developed through free market principles. Whereas the shit show being perpetuated by mandating EV's is for a problem we don't have and wouldn't solve it if we did.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Can you quote the specific part that says the US government mandated Bell Laboratories to develop certain technologies in exchange for a monopoly?

Not working from home today so I don't have my copy handy. I'll check it out this afternoon.

But in a sense a patent is not dissimilar. A patent grants a time-limited "monopoly" allowing the holder to keep others from making the patent holders' invention for 20 years after filing in exchange for a full disclosure of the workings of the invention or business method. That "negative right" is backed up by the full force of the US government. And arguably it is the single biggest means of development in our economy (or was at one point...the current patent system still has issues).

In other words: America has a complex relationship between our dislike of monopolies and our need for them. We do various things to incentivize those monopolies but we keep them in check to some extent.

This is one part of the reason you have never lived in a truly laissez faire free market in your life.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Incorrect. A standard deduction for all companies that spend capital dollars.

The experts disagree with you.

Your claim was oil companies, dear. Not coal companies.

Not a big problem there. I have plenty of other examples.

No. I'm being honest. You on the other hand don't know what you are talking about and are being dishonest.

Why do you think SO MANY economists call them "subsidies"? Is it because you are the smartest person on earth and they are all idiots?

 

[ding]

There isn't. Which is why the subsidies for the petroleum industry are so galling.

I'm glad you agree with me that battery life is affected by extreme temperatures. Now if you would only learn what a subsidy actually is. Because you keep pointing to standard deductions that ALL industries are entitled to under the rules of accounting and tax codes.

 

[ding]

Hydrogen is the most abundant element in the universe.

Yes, and to get it here on earth the bond with oxygen must be broken which requires more energy than that is produced in a fuel cell.

 

[Cardinal Carminative]

Now if you would only learn what a subsidy actually is.

Seems to me you have a problem with the experts in the field. Not me.

Because you keep pointing to standard deductions that ALL industries are entitled to under the rules of accounting and tax codes.

Which...wait for it...the EXPERTS call subsidies.

 

[ding]

Yeah, it would have been great if the Pinto had that back in the 70's.

Exactly, except this will be a common problem in all EV lines as opposed to one specific vehicle.

 

[ding]

Bell labs is not the same as the USDA ARS or NASA.



Read the book.

It would be really nice if you could back up what you are saying with direct quotes. Is there any chance of that happening?

 

[ding]

Not working from home today so I don't have my copy handy. I'll check it out this afternoon.

But in a sense a patent is not dissimilar. A patent grants a time-limited "monopoly" allowing the holder to keep others from making the patent holders' invention for 20 years after filing in exchange for a full disclosure of the workings of the invention or business method. That "negative right" is backed up by the full force of the US government. And arguably it is the single biggest means of development in our economy (or was at one point...the current patent system still has issues).

In other words: America has a complex relationship between our dislike of monopolies and our need for them. We do various things to incentivize those monopolies but we keep them in check to some extent.

This is one part of the reason you have never lived in a truly laissez faire free market in your life.

Oh... patents and not monopolies. Why didn't you say so in the first place. That's not a government mandate, dear. That's a patent. And that is a far cry from the government directing a market what they SHALL do.

 

[ding]

The experts disagree with you.



Not a big problem there. I have plenty of other examples.



Why do you think SO MANY economists call them "subsidies"? Is it because you are the smartest person on earth and they are all idiots?

I've yet to see any proof of that whatsoever. Again... all you have pointed to are standard accounting practices that ALL industries take when they spend capital dollars.

 

[rightwinger]

Can't wait to see how well this is going to work out for them

I think most major urban areas and California will mandate EVs
It is in their best interests