Forgiveness

[BDBoop]

I am currently working my way through some familial issues on a therapeutic front. I know "to err is human, to forgive divine" *even though I don't actually know where the saying is from*. And I grasp the concept of seventy-times-seven. What I'm having trouble with is part of that last bit. And I don't care if you are Christian, pagan, wiccan, atheist, I would just appreciate some feedback.

How do you forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven because they don't believe they did anything wrong. Essentially, I'm having trouble just letting go of them believing an untruth about me, no matter how many times we discuss the situation. Not only that, but they think I need to ask their forgiveness for something I didn't do.

The issue in question is several decades old but nobody has picked at the scar for some time now.

I've been praying, meditating - and pretty much posting here to avoid dealing with the fact that I can't seem to come to grips with this issue.

 

[Chuckt]

How do you forgive someone who won't say, "I am sorry."? I think saying it is an important part but...

Sometimes you just have to accept people for who they are or you can't have a relationship.

I don't believe we are to be in subjection or bondage to such things.

The problem is there may be a difficulty level in dealing with people. Think about cats and dogs for example. Some cats and dogs can get along and live in the same house but others have their signals crossed even though they didn't do anything wrong but react.

What you could do is something nice for this person ; love your enemies.

I can make a case for forgiveness or unforgiveness but I think we should pray to God and forgive them and ask God to help us to forgive them. I also think people don't understand what forgiveness is. We will still hurt so if we really forgive then maybe the other party can walk with us in that forgiveness by helping us heal?

The downside in Matthew 18:16 is that my church says we can say that people are unreasonable and treat them as a heathen and publican.

But remember that we are often blind to what is wrong with us so we don't know how we contributed to this so the default is to always forgive or satan will have an advantage over us (2 Corinthians 2:11) so I pray that we can do the right thing. Lord please help us forgive them but keep them away Lord.

 

[BreezeWood]

- How do you forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven because they don't believe they did anything wrong.

- Essentially, I'm having trouble just letting go of them believing an untruth about me, no matter how many times we discuss the situation.

- Not only that, but they think I need to ask their forgiveness for something I didn't do.

Not only that, but they think I need to ask their forgiveness for something I didn't do.


... the proof is in the pudding, all three should be reconcilable - there must be an abstraction one or the other of you has that predetermined the outcome irregardless the actual event. - "it was after midnight", darling ...

any clues ?

.

 

[CMike]

I am currently working my way through some familial issues on a therapeutic front. I know "to err is human, to forgive divine" *even though I don't actually know where the saying is from*. And I grasp the concept of seventy-times-seven. What I'm having trouble with is part of that last bit. And I don't care if you are Christian, pagan, wiccan, atheist, I would just appreciate some feedback.

How do you forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven because they don't believe they did anything wrong. Essentially, I'm having trouble just letting go of them believing an untruth about me, no matter how many times we discuss the situation. Not only that, but they think I need to ask their forgiveness for something I didn't do.

The issue in question is several decades old but nobody has picked at the scar for some time now.

I've been praying, meditating - and pretty much posting here to avoid dealing with the fact that I can't seem to come to grips with this issue.

Welcome to the party.

You don't. You don't have to forgive someone who doesn't ask for forgiveness. You just need to manage feelings. There is a signficant difference.

IMO try to focus as little time and energy on negative peoiple and refocus it on positive people.

 

[BDBoop]

I am currently working my way through some familial issues on a therapeutic front. I know "to err is human, to forgive divine" *even though I don't actually know where the saying is from*. And I grasp the concept of seventy-times-seven. What I'm having trouble with is part of that last bit. And I don't care if you are Christian, pagan, wiccan, atheist, I would just appreciate some feedback.

How do you forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven because they don't believe they did anything wrong. Essentially, I'm having trouble just letting go of them believing an untruth about me, no matter how many times we discuss the situation. Not only that, but they think I need to ask their forgiveness for something I didn't do.

The issue in question is several decades old but nobody has picked at the scar for some time now.

I've been praying, meditating - and pretty much posting here to avoid dealing with the fact that I can't seem to come to grips with this issue.

Welcome to the party.

You don't. You don't have to forgive someone who doesn't ask for forgiveness. You just need to manage feelings. There is a signficant difference.

IMO try to focus as little time and energy on negative peoiple and refocus it on positive people.

Bless you. I think it's the tail end of the Serenity Prayer, re: 'and the wisdom to know the difference.'

 

[BDBoop]

- How do you forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven because they don't believe they did anything wrong.

- Essentially, I'm having trouble just letting go of them believing an untruth about me, no matter how many times we discuss the situation.

- Not only that, but they think I need to ask their forgiveness for something I didn't do.

Not only that, but they think I need to ask their forgiveness for something I didn't do.


... the proof is in the pudding, all three should be reconcilable - there must be an abstraction one or the other of you has that predetermined the outcome irregardless the actual event. - "it was after midnight", darling ...

any clues ?

.

/deep breath

Okay. My sister got pregnant when she was nineteen, and my parents adopted her son. Not legally, but they were mom and dad for the first 2.5 years of his life.

Then she got sober, and remembered who raised her. She went and got him back.

My mom is deceased, but my dad thinks I helped my sister reach that decision. I did not. I wasn't even in contact with her during that portion of her life, because of the drunkenness. This is something he's dredging up from the distant past for whatever reason, and I could almost live with it if I'd actually committed this 'sin' to begin with.

Never mind the fact that they actually were incredibly abusive parents, and I will never believe she made the wrong decision in taking her son away from them.

Apologies if this is a teal deer.

 

[The Irish Ram]

BD, I think you do have to forgive him. It may be a condition he doesn't deserve, but you deserve the peace of mind and satisfaction of knowing you honored your father whether he merited it or not.
It makes you a good daughter in God's eyes. You pass His test, and receive a blessing because of your decision to forgive. You get forgiven in return.

You're actions are all you are responsible for. Your requirement in the matter was to forgive or not. And you did well. Don't spend another moment letting your dad's seemingly less than stellar decisions usurp your happiness.

Your earthly father is slow to understand, may never want to understand, and may never give you what you'd like to hear. Sadly, and hard hardheartedly for him, not you, those are his issues to grapple with, and something over which you have no control.

You resolved your part in the situation with understanding and heart. The only other thing you can do is ask God to soften your dad's heart and heal old wounds.

Then tell yourself you are a good girl to your father, and your Father, and enjoy the day He's made for you in peace. ( I'd reward my good behavior with a new purse, but that's just me.)

 

[syrenn]

I am currently working my way through some familial issues on a therapeutic front. I know "to err is human, to forgive divine" *even though I don't actually know where the saying is from*. And I grasp the concept of seventy-times-seven. What I'm having trouble with is part of that last bit. And I don't care if you are Christian, pagan, wiccan, atheist, I would just appreciate some feedback.

How do you forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven because they don't believe they did anything wrong. Essentially, I'm having trouble just letting go of them believing an untruth about me, no matter how many times we discuss the situation. Not only that, but they think I need to ask their forgiveness for something I didn't do.

The issue in question is several decades old but nobody has picked at the scar for some time now.

I've been praying, meditating - and pretty much posting here to avoid dealing with the fact that I can't seem to come to grips with this issue.

some things should never be forgiven.... simple as that. Just becasue they are family does not mean they GET or deserve to be forgiven.

you dont have to forgive someone to let go of it...... all you have to do is not let your past poison your present or future.

 

[Esmeralda]

True forgiveness isn't conditional.

 

[HUGGY]

Find yourself a dead end road out in the weeds ner where this a-hole lives. Go buy yourself a nice little semi auto pistol and learn how to use it. Get yourself a smallish chain saw.

Go to a local second hand store and purchase a ski mask and some throw away clothing and a pair of gloves and a garden rake.

Find a spot on down past the entrance of the dead end road and take the chain saw and cut a wedge in a medium size tree facing the road.

Next.. mail an anonymous letter to the a-hole stating that if he wants the boy or anything he may want he must go to this address(find an address near the end of the dead end road)

Follow him with your car at a safe distance and if he bites on going down the road as soon as he passes the pre cut tree you jump out of your car with the chain saw and finish felling the tree over the road. When he figures out he has been sent on a wild goose chase he will come back to the tree and find he cannot go past it.

That's when you jump out on your side of the tree and bust a few caps in the a-hole. Make sure to police all your brass.

Rake over any tire tracks and footprints near the SOTC.

Get back in your car and find a dumpster to toss the chainsaw..ski mask and clothing and rake. Ditch the gun somewhere it will never be found But NOT in the dumpster. If you are going to bury it dig a hole before you carry out this plan. Make sure it is NOT on or near your property.

This should take care of your problem. Then if you HAVE to pray about something pray you can keep your own mouth shut and that you will not get caught.









Of course I am just kidding and no actual bullies got injured by the ficticious story I just made up.

 

[BDBoop]

Thanks to all who took the time and effort to give me a serious answer. One thing I do need to remember - at least, it has helped in coming to peace with my mother and our many trials - I am not guilty of this one thing. But I am of others. His guilt does not whitewash or negate my own. And when all is said and done, all I can do is own my own and be contrite for the wrongs I have actually done.

 

[TemplarKormac]

I am currently working my way through some familial issues on a therapeutic front. I know "to err is human, to forgive divine" *even though I don't actually know where the saying is from*. And I grasp the concept of seventy-times-seven. What I'm having trouble with is part of that last bit. And I don't care if you are Christian, pagan, wiccan, atheist, I would just appreciate some feedback.

How do you forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven because they don't believe they did anything wrong. Essentially, I'm having trouble just letting go of them believing an untruth about me, no matter how many times we discuss the situation. Not only that, but they think I need to ask their forgiveness for something I didn't do.

The issue in question is several decades old but nobody has picked at the scar for some time now.

I've been praying, meditating - and pretty much posting here to avoid dealing with the fact that I can't seem to come to grips with this issue.

BD, I'm pretty late, I know, but I want to give you some sincere advice. If you see them as your enemy, love them. If you love them, but they hate you, love them still. Keep praying for them, even if you don't necessarily care for them.

I went through familial upheaval in my teenage years. When I was 2 years old my father left me alone with my grandmother for the next 11 years. My father was a ruthless martinet. He was a raw soldier, a man out of the Army, who came back into my life when I was 15 years of age. He knew absolutely jack about being a parent. The very first thing he did was punish me.

He suddenly thought that he could replace the woman who had raised me from then on. He didn't say "hi, I missed you son" or anything. He dropped the hammer. Admittedly I was was being very unkind to my grandmother then, and he had all right to be angry. She raised him as well.

But the next five years were pretty much the same way. His behavior, his merciless parenting style wound up tearing the family apart. Twice. I am still angry and bitter, and I still struggle with the lost years. I wrestle with the pain and grief he has caused me personally. To this day he has never apologized for his behavior, or the way he treated me or my grandmother.

-HOWEVER-

I found it best to forgive him anyway. I was on jury duty in the fall of 2009, when I was released from the courtroom, I sat down on the court steps waiting on my ride. I took out my phone and texted him. Three simple words. "I forgive you." That's all it took. It went a long way to mending at least a few broken bonds between us. At the time, I saw him as an enemy then, not as my father. He was a traitor to me and to my family. A deadbeat who dumped me on the closest relative to raise me while shirking his own responsibilities. But I forgave him anyway. Which leads me to this:

"But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them who despitefully use you, and persecute you; That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven: for he makes his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. "

-Matthew 5:44-45

 

[BDBoop]

My love for my father has not been in question, but I thank you for taking the time to share your experience.

 

[strollingbones]

what a crock of shit from simple....

you forgot to mention the native american part....

and listen to you...willing to spread lies and then say your are sorry but refuse to redeem yourself by saying that you lied like a fucking dog...

and now you quote the bible....

does your scumminess have no bonds?

 

[TemplarKormac]

Bones... you of all people should learn how to forgive. If I've wronged you I'm sorry, although I'll probably never know what it is I did. And I forgive you for your sudden show of disrespect towards me as well. In a thread called "forgiveness" perhaps you should learn to practice it before lecturing me on it. Understand? You need to think about forgiviness before you ever demand it of others.

Good morning.

 

[strollingbones]

lol i knew you didnt have me on ignore.....but you have already forgotten your speech in the tavern about no one quote bones to me i have her on ignore....

damn boy that is the problem with lies....you have to remember which ones you have told...

and as i have told you...there is no forgiveness without a change in behavior.....

and another thing...regardless of these rumors you may hear....i am a stone cold person .
and you really need to get over thinking i will do anything against my nature such as pretend in threads on the net...such as being nice to you cause its a forgiveness thread....

and you really need to figure out what a back handed apology is....

i do not seek your forgiveness....you do not deserve respect...so how do you get that i disrespected you?

but again you have shown yourself to be the liar i know you are......

 

[BDBoop]

TK, you could have done as I did and simply ignored Bones' post - but you didn't so I will say this to you. You wronged her. Her criteria for accepting your apology was that you publicly admit your wrongdoing. It appears that the only thing stopping you from doing so is your pride.

 

[strollingbones]

back to the op....forgiveness is so over rated...i hear that you should forgive and forget ...well maybe its divine cause it is so hard to forget...and at this stage of the game i have had many seek forgiveness only to revert to the forgiven behavior....i dont tolerate that anymore.....i just go back to fool me once shame on you...fool me twice shame on me.....to me forgiveness is more than asking and granting.....you must put actions behind your words....


arent christians told to confess their sins to be forgiven? am i wrong about that?
if i had a nickel for every time my in laws have ask to be forgiven but dont change the behavior....i would be a rich woman

 

[strollingbones]

so which is worse.....to forgive...and continue to endure the behavior or to simply move on...with my own family....or rather my mother's siblings...i have opted to move on...i have no contact with any of them ..i have attempted to get along with them but their continued lies to my mother have caused me to just give up on them and that 'family' situation with them...why bother....at every avenue when given the choice of being toxic or decent they have opted for toxic....

the dr phil cliche is so true...the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior.....

 

[BDBoop]

back to the op....forgiveness is so over rated...i hear that you should forgive and forget ...well maybe its divine cause it is so hard to forget...and at this stage of the game i have had many seek forgiveness only to revert to the forgiven behavior....i dont tolerate that anymore.....i just go back to fool me once shame on you...fool me twice shame on me.....to me forgiveness is more than asking and granting.....you must put actions behind your words....


arent christians told to confess their sins to be forgiven? am i wrong about that?
if i had a nickel for every time my in laws have ask to be forgiven but dont change the behavior....i would be a rich woman

Right. If there is no understanding, contrition or empathy - it's just going to happen again. If one cannot put themselves in the shoes of the one they wronged, then there would likely be nothing preventing that person from continuing with the same hateful, damaging behaviors.

You are right about confessing, but as far as I know, that is to God. I know the twelve step programs expect amends to be made, but I'm not sure about Bible verses backing that concept.

I prefer apologizing to those I've hurt or wronged, because it gets the burden out of my heart.