Forgiveness

[BDBoop]

so which is worse.....to forgive...and continue to endure the behavior or to simply move on...with my own family....or rather my mother's siblings...i have opted to move on...i have no contact with any of them ..i have attempted to get along with them but their continued lies to my mother have caused me to just give up on them and that 'family' situation with them...why bother....at every avenue when given the choice of being toxic or decent they have opted for toxic....

the dr phil cliche is so true...the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior.....

Moving on is the correct answer. Life holds enough stress without you signing up for extra credit.

 

[BDBoop]

The thought of forgiving used to absolutely tear me up inside. It felt like - SO vulnerable. Like the only thing protecting me from more abuse was my motto: Never Forget. If I forgive, that means what they did was forgivable.

And it wasn't.

 

[strollingbones]

but then you have the inner doubt of ...is rage better...can you truly be indifferent? which to me is harder to be than hate/love and shows a much greater depth of not caring....because it is truly not caring...i have not achieved the state of indifference towards the mom's siblings that i would like to achieve...i still prefer a flaming meteorite get them......it is my vision...they are all 3 on their way here..when they are hit by a flaming meteorite....again people go on about honesty if the best policy blah blah blah...they do not mean it.....seems people are more shocked by honesty than anything...when my mother's sister was in a car wreck..and the counselor ask my true reaction....perhaps i should not have replied 'too bad it was not fatal' but i did....

 

[Gracie]

Apologizing for something you are not sorry for is just empty words. If you don't feel it in your heart...it means nothing. Not to you, or to the person you are apologizing to.

This is another way of looking at it:

 

[strollingbones]

people just consider me rather 'dark'

 

[Gracie]

people just consider me rather 'dark'

Maybe so. I see you are brutally honest.

 

[strollingbones]

only to others......

 

[BDBoop]

but then you have the inner doubt of ...is rage better...can you truly be indifferent? which to me is harder to be than hate/love and shows a much greater depth of not caring....because it is truly not caring...i have not achieved the state of indifference towards the mom's siblings that i would like to achieve...i still prefer a flaming meteorite get them......it is my vision...they are all 3 on their way here..when they are hit by a flaming meteorite....again people go on about honesty if the best policy blah blah blah...they do not mean it.....seems people are more shocked by honesty than anything...when my mother's sister was in a car wreck..and the counselor ask my true reaction....perhaps i should not have replied 'too bad it was not fatal' but i did....

Bones, wisdom comes with age. It doesn't sound to me like you should be doubting what you're feeling. Maybe sometimes you wish you had a filter that prevented you from speaking your mind? But what the hell. You're not getting any younger.

Your perceptions sound karmic. You want those people to experience the same amount of damage as they are responsible for.

My sister and her ex are "those people" in my family. I can't be indifferent to someone who made a strong, conscious effort to destroy my daughter's life. I will forever be hyper-vigilant in my awareness of them and what they are capable of. Have I forgiven them? ... Beats me.

Nor do I care.

 

[strollingbones]

no siblings here...a good thing....o and yes......you may forgive your child over and over but someone who hurts your child......o they go on that bad bad list....

 

[TemplarKormac]

TK, you could have done as I did and simply ignored Bones' post - but you didn't so I will say this to you. You wronged her. Her criteria for accepting your apology was that you publicly admit your wrongdoing. It appears that the only thing stopping you from doing so is your pride.

What would you have done if someone kept continually stalking you across the forums, huh? I can only walk down the sidewalk and ignore the stranger following me for so long, before I turn around to confront them.

I have asked her many times to provide evidence of my wrongdoing. I can't apologize for something I have no memory or evidence of doing. Either she can come clean and tell me (via the PM system) what I have done wrong, or I will not admit to anything. I asked her repeatedly when and how this happened. I demanded in fact that she tell me what it was that I did. She never complied. She makes it rather hard for me to do anything she demands. All I hear from her is "you're a liar, just because."

"You wronged her" is nothing but an assertion. Unless someone speaks up, I will dismiss this issue forever. She will not get an apology until she comes clean. That's it. That's all. If she wishes to continue stonewalling, that's completely up to her. I will speak no more of this. If she cannot accept the reality of the matter, so be it. She is denying herself the very thing she wants of me.

 

[BDBoop]

TK, you could have done as I did and simply ignored Bones' post - but you didn't so I will say this to you. You wronged her. Her criteria for accepting your apology was that you publicly admit your wrongdoing. It appears that the only thing stopping you from doing so is your pride.

What would you have done if someone kept continually stalking you across the forums, huh? I can only walk down the sidewalk and ignore the stranger following me for so long, before I turn around to confront them.

I have asked her many times to provide evidence of my wrongdoing. I can't apologize for something I have no memory or evidence of doing. Either she can come clean and tell me (via the PM system) what I have done wrong, or I will not admit to anything. I asked her repeatedly when and how this happened. I demanded in fact that she tell me what it was that I did. She never complied. She makes it rather hard for me to do anything she demands.

"You wronged her" is nothing but an assertion. Unless someone speaks up, I will dismiss this issue forever. She will not get an apology until she comes clean. That's it. That's all. If she wishes to continue stonewalling, that's completely up to her.

I would have owned my own long before it reached this impasse.

 

[Indofred]

How do you forgive someone who doesn't want to be forgiven because they don't believe they did anything wrong. .

The question has to be, did they do something wrong or is it you that's all stroppy about nothing?
Try that first, but you have to be objective.

 

[strollingbones]

TK, you could have done as I did and simply ignored Bones' post - but you didn't so I will say this to you. You wronged her. Her criteria for accepting your apology was that you publicly admit your wrongdoing. It appears that the only thing stopping you from doing so is your pride.

What would you have done if someone kept continually stalking you across the forums, huh? I can only walk down the sidewalk and ignore the stranger following me for so long, before I turn around to confront them.

I have asked her many times to provide evidence of my wrongdoing. I can't apologize for something I have no memory or evidence of doing. Either she can come clean and tell me (via the PM system) what I have done wrong, or I will not admit to anything. I asked her repeatedly when and how this happened. I demanded in fact that she tell me what it was that I did. She never complied. She makes it rather hard for me to do anything she demands.

"You wronged her" is nothing but an assertion. Unless someone speaks up, I will dismiss this issue forever. She will not get an apology until she comes clean. That's it. That's all. If she wishes to continue stonewalling, that's completely up to her.

and you continue your lies...i have never refused to reply to you in pm....and i have replied and told you did....the pms to members of the tavern....o let me send it to you now...

 

[strollingbones]

you now have a pm with the pm you mailed out to people...deny it or admit it...up to you and since you have it...now you can publish it .....with my permission.....

 

[TemplarKormac]

TK, you could have done as I did and simply ignored Bones' post - but you didn't so I will say this to you. You wronged her. Her criteria for accepting your apology was that you publicly admit your wrongdoing. It appears that the only thing stopping you from doing so is your pride.

What would you have done if someone kept continually stalking you across the forums, huh? I can only walk down the sidewalk and ignore the stranger following me for so long, before I turn around to confront them.

I have asked her many times to provide evidence of my wrongdoing. I can't apologize for something I have no memory or evidence of doing. Either she can come clean and tell me (via the PM system) what I have done wrong, or I will not admit to anything. I asked her repeatedly when and how this happened. I demanded in fact that she tell me what it was that I did. She never complied. She makes it rather hard for me to do anything she demands.

"You wronged her" is nothing but an assertion. Unless someone speaks up, I will dismiss this issue forever. She will not get an apology until she comes clean. That's it. That's all. If she wishes to continue stonewalling, that's completely up to her.

I would have owned my own long before it reached this impasse.

I'm afraid I don't understand.

I can't own up to any mistakes if I don't know what they are, or if the person I wronged won't speak up about it. She makes this harder on herself by not being more compliant. I am willing to admit any error in judgement I have committed. How many times must I say it? How many concessions must I make?

 

[TemplarKormac]

you now have a pm with the pm you mailed out to people...deny it or admit it...up to you and since you have it...now you can publish it .....with my permission.....

There is nothing in my inbox, bones. Where is it? Stop toying with me!

 

[BDBoop]

What would you have done if someone kept continually stalking you across the forums, huh? I can only walk down the sidewalk and ignore the stranger following me for so long, before I turn around to confront them.

I have asked her many times to provide evidence of my wrongdoing. I can't apologize for something I have no memory or evidence of doing. Either she can come clean and tell me (via the PM system) what I have done wrong, or I will not admit to anything. I asked her repeatedly when and how this happened. I demanded in fact that she tell me what it was that I did. She never complied. She makes it rather hard for me to do anything she demands.

"You wronged her" is nothing but an assertion. Unless someone speaks up, I will dismiss this issue forever. She will not get an apology until she comes clean. That's it. That's all. If she wishes to continue stonewalling, that's completely up to her.

I would have owned my own long before it reached this impasse.

I'm afraid I don't understand.

I can't own up to any mistakes if I don't know what they are, or if the person I wronged won't speak up about it. She makes this harder on herself by not being more compliant. I am willing to admit any error in judgement I have committed. How many times must I say it? How many concessions must I make?

You know now.

How many concessions must I make? I believe that's where the seventy-times-seven bit comes into play.

I'm not trying to grieve you, TK. But if you are going to hold yourself to a standard, then do so. This is part of claiming the high ground.

 

[BDBoop]

you now have a pm with the pm you mailed out to people...deny it or admit it...up to you and since you have it...now you can publish it .....with my permission.....

There is nothing in my inbox, bones. Where is it? Are you lying?

She's not given to lying.

 

[strollingbones]

i have given it to you two times now.....you may need to ask a mod what is wrong with your inbox

 

[TemplarKormac]

I would have owned my own long before it reached this impasse.

I'm afraid I don't understand.

I can't own up to any mistakes if I don't know what they are, or if the person I wronged won't speak up about it. She makes this harder on herself by not being more compliant. I am willing to admit any error in judgement I have committed. How many times must I say it? How many concessions must I make?

You know now.

How many concessions must I make? I believe that's where the seventy-times-seven bit comes into play.

I'm not trying to grieve you, TK. But if you are going to hold yourself to a standard, then do so. This is part of claiming the high ground.

I can only hold myself to that standard if I know what I did to transgress against someone. And while I am being lectured about taking the high ground, we have another person tearing me to shreds about something I supposedly did to them, for which they have yet to provide proof of. She says she sent me the PM. I don't have it.

I'm beginning to think this is some kind of cruel joke.