Free Country News: Feds raid Texas secessionist meeting

[SwimExpert]

"The pretext of the raid was that two individuals from the group had reportedly sent out “simulated court documents” — summonses for a judge and a banker to appear before the Republic of Texas to discuss the matter of a foreclosure.

These “simulated documents” were rejected and the authorities decided to react with a “show of force” — twenty officers and an extremely broad search warrant."

Ah, do be careful when attempting to overthrow the government, it tends to overthrow you, off the nearest bridge. And be careful who you associate with, they may be the wrong kinds since fringe movements like this are full of nutters.

There are dangerous fringe groups out there, this does not appear to be one of them and it does present the image of overkill on the part of Law Enforcement.
Given that I'd like to get more from the side of the raiders and why they determined this style, level of raid was necessary, there could be other unreported aspects here that justifies what Law Enforcement did.
By law if someone is not advocating the use of force or violence to overthrow the Federal government, any local, county or state government he/she/they are withing their rights as protected by the First Amendment however if they are participating in other actions that are illegal then it's a whole nother story.
No one was arrested so this has all the appearances of an intimidation tactic which would constitute a violation of their Civil Rights. Personally I believe (I have a law enforcement background) those who ordered and orchestrated the raid have some explaining to do.

The benefit of the doubt, rightly or wrongly, tends to go to law enforcement here. You guys just don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot. Had this been the Communists you'd be mad because they all weren't still in jail...

Nope. I don't have a problem with communists having a meeting. They aren't even accused of committing a crime, so why were they arrested?

No one was arrested. Read the story.

Then they had no legal authority to seize their property, fingerprint or photograph them. They definitely had no authority to search their vehicles.

Actually, they had a search warrant.

 

[OKTexas]

There are dangerous fringe groups out there, this does not appear to be one of them and it does present the image of overkill on the part of Law Enforcement.
Given that I'd like to get more from the side of the raiders and why they determined this style, level of raid was necessary, there could be other unreported aspects here that justifies what Law Enforcement did.
By law if someone is not advocating the use of force or violence to overthrow the Federal government, any local, county or state government he/she/they are withing their rights as protected by the First Amendment however if they are participating in other actions that are illegal then it's a whole nother story.
No one was arrested so this has all the appearances of an intimidation tactic which would constitute a violation of their Civil Rights. Personally I believe (I have a law enforcement background) those who ordered and orchestrated the raid have some explaining to do.

The benefit of the doubt, rightly or wrongly, tends to go to law enforcement here. You guys just don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot. Had this been the Communists you'd be mad because they all weren't still in jail...

Nope. I don't have a problem with communists having a meeting. They aren't even accused of committing a crime, so why were they arrested?

No one was arrested. Read the story.

Then they had no legal authority to seize their property, fingerprint or photograph them. They definitely had no authority to search their vehicles.

I think the story could be false, written with the intention to stir up people who are all too ready to believe whatever they see on the internet. The bar for posting blogs and fake videos is very, very, very, very low as in, there is none.

I doubt it, the original story was written by a Houston Chronicle reporter.

Feds raid Texas secessionist meeting - San Antonio Express-News

 

[JakeStarkey]

Where r my Keys is adorable trying to talk like an adult.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

There are dangerous fringe groups out there, this does not appear to be one of them and it does present the image of overkill on the part of Law Enforcement.
Given that I'd like to get more from the side of the raiders and why they determined this style, level of raid was necessary, there could be other unreported aspects here that justifies what Law Enforcement did.
By law if someone is not advocating the use of force or violence to overthrow the Federal government, any local, county or state government he/she/they are withing their rights as protected by the First Amendment however if they are participating in other actions that are illegal then it's a whole nother story.
No one was arrested so this has all the appearances of an intimidation tactic which would constitute a violation of their Civil Rights. Personally I believe (I have a law enforcement background) those who ordered and orchestrated the raid have some explaining to do.

The benefit of the doubt, rightly or wrongly, tends to go to law enforcement here. You guys just don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot. Had this been the Communists you'd be mad because they all weren't still in jail...

Nope. I don't have a problem with communists having a meeting. They aren't even accused of committing a crime, so why were they arrested?

No one was arrested. Read the story.

Then they had no legal authority to seize their property, fingerprint or photograph them. They definitely had no authority to search their vehicles.

Actually, they had a search warrant.

Yeah, and I'm betting the judge (judges) had no qualms signing off on that one. Time to nip this in the bud.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

And further:

"We've had a lot of dealings with Republic of Texas members in the past here, too, flooding the court with simulated documents," he said. "I don't have any problem with them going back to the Republic of Texas but they need to do it through the proper legal channels."

 

[Ringel05]

Nope. I don't have a problem with communists having a meeting. They aren't even accused of committing a crime, so why were they arrested?

No one was arrested. Read the story.

Then they had no legal authority to seize their property, fingerprint or photograph them. They definitely had no authority to search their vehicles.

I think the story could be false, written with the intention to stir up people who are all too ready to believe whatever they see on the internet. The bar for posting blogs and fake videos is very, very, very, very low as in, there is none.

The Huston Chronicle:

Feds raid Texas secessionist meeting - Houston Chronicle

Like I said, I thought there was something being left out of the blog.

So they broke the law and they got raided. It has nothing to do with the substance of their meeting:

" Hierholzer said the seized devices will be downloaded and reviewed to determine if others conspired in the creation and issuance of false court documents."""

Yeah, that's already been pointed out but as i said before I'd like to see the law forbidding such actions a sin must jurisdictions they simply would have been dismissed as nutcases and let it go with a note to watch for an illegal activities by the group in which legal action could/should be taken.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Where r my Keys is adorable trying to talk like an adult.

LEO had a search warrant. Their "congressional" meeting was attended by crininals who had been sending out illegal summons.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Thread fail. O/P needs to properly title the thread, but then if he had done that it wouldn't have gotten any attention.

 

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

No one was arrested. Read the story.

Then they had no legal authority to seize their property, fingerprint or photograph them. They definitely had no authority to search their vehicles.

I think the story could be false, written with the intention to stir up people who are all too ready to believe whatever they see on the internet. The bar for posting blogs and fake videos is very, very, very, very low as in, there is none.

The Huston Chronicle:

Feds raid Texas secessionist meeting - Houston Chronicle

Like I said, I thought there was something being left out of the blog.

So they broke the law and they got raided. It has nothing to do with the substance of their meeting:

" Hierholzer said the seized devices will be downloaded and reviewed to determine if others conspired in the creation and issuance of false court documents."""

Yeah, that's already been pointed out but as i said before I'd like to see the law forbidding such actions a sin must jurisdictions they simply would have been dismissed as nutcases and let it go with a note to watch for an illegal activities by the group in which legal action could/should be taken.

Really? Like where, for instance? You pull that shit in New Jersey and a judge will have you in jail, after your knees are taken out.

 

[Ringel05]

And further:

"We've had a lot of dealings with Republic of Texas members in the past here, too, flooding the court with simulated documents," he said. "I don't have any problem with them going back to the Republic of Texas but they need to do it through the proper legal channels."

True but from what I understand that would have required a legal cease and desist order prior to any other action being taken, if that was done then I see no problem with the raid but then again I'm not 100% conversant with Texas law covering such matters.

 

[boilermaker55]

Here we are with the secession talk again. Shit or get off the pot. Start the proceedings to secede already.
Whining ass M*therF*ckers!

"The pretext of the raid was that two individuals from the group had reportedly sent out “simulated court documents” — summonses for a judge and a banker to appear before the Republic of Texas to discuss the matter of a foreclosure.

These “simulated documents” were rejected and the authorities decided to react with a “show of force” — twenty officers and an extremely broad search warrant."

Ah, do be careful when attempting to overthrow the government, it tends to overthrow you, off the nearest bridge. And be careful who you associate with, they may be the wrong kinds since fringe movements like this are full of nutters.

Spoken lie a true boot-licking government toady. Secession isn't overthrowing the government. These people committed no crime.

 

[SwimExpert]

By law if someone is not advocating the use of force or violence to overthrow the Federal government, any local, county or state government he/she/they are withing their rights as protected by the First Amendment however if they are participating in other actions that are illegal then it's a whole nother story.

This is a group that sees the United States as an illegitimate government over Texas, and that they are the rightful government exercising sovereignty over the land. The meeting raided was what they call their Congress.

I can claim my property is a country unto itself and claim it's so because I have never sworn allegiance to the United States (I have) or the locality, county and state it resides in. Doesn't make my claim legal.

When you attempt or portend to usurp the sovereignty of the land away from the United States, you are committing an act of rebellion against the sovereignty of the nation. This "group" contends to be the legitimate government of a country they call the Republic of Texas, which they claim is the same Republic of Texas that became defunct in the 19th century. They have a President, a Congress, and a judiciary. They attempt to exercise sovereign power (this raid was initiated after they attempted to hold bankruptcy proceedings and attempted to summon someone, who then took the fraudulent court documents to police). As their website says:

There is no need for the republic of Texas to seced from the United States. We never "ceded" the land of Texas to them or to anyone else.

Proclamation

 

[OKTexas]

There are dangerous fringe groups out there, this does not appear to be one of them and it does present the image of overkill on the part of Law Enforcement.
Given that I'd like to get more from the side of the raiders and why they determined this style, level of raid was necessary, there could be other unreported aspects here that justifies what Law Enforcement did.
By law if someone is not advocating the use of force or violence to overthrow the Federal government, any local, county or state government he/she/they are withing their rights as protected by the First Amendment however if they are participating in other actions that are illegal then it's a whole nother story.
No one was arrested so this has all the appearances of an intimidation tactic which would constitute a violation of their Civil Rights. Personally I believe (I have a law enforcement background) those who ordered and orchestrated the raid have some explaining to do.

The benefit of the doubt, rightly or wrongly, tends to go to law enforcement here. You guys just don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot. Had this been the Communists you'd be mad because they all weren't still in jail...

Nope. I don't have a problem with communists having a meeting. They aren't even accused of committing a crime, so why were they arrested?

No one was arrested. Read the story.

Then they had no legal authority to seize their property, fingerprint or photograph them. They definitely had no authority to search their vehicles.

Actually, they had a search warrant.

For what, the building, the two individuals mentioned in the story, the property, it doesn't say in the story. In TX your vehicle is considered an extension of your home, did they have individual warrants for each vehicle. Also in TX you can't have your property seized, like cell phones or be fingerprinted or photographed except subsequent to arrest. No one was arrested so there was no legal justification for what was done.

 

[Ringel05]

Then they had no legal authority to seize their property, fingerprint or photograph them. They definitely had no authority to search their vehicles.

I think the story could be false, written with the intention to stir up people who are all too ready to believe whatever they see on the internet. The bar for posting blogs and fake videos is very, very, very, very low as in, there is none.

The Huston Chronicle:

Feds raid Texas secessionist meeting - Houston Chronicle

Like I said, I thought there was something being left out of the blog.

So they broke the law and they got raided. It has nothing to do with the substance of their meeting:

" Hierholzer said the seized devices will be downloaded and reviewed to determine if others conspired in the creation and issuance of false court documents."""

Yeah, that's already been pointed out but as i said before I'd like to see the law forbidding such actions a sin must jurisdictions they simply would have been dismissed as nutcases and let it go with a note to watch for an illegal activities by the group in which legal action could/should be taken.

Really? Like where, for instance? You pull that shit in New Jersey and a judge will have you in jail, after your knees are taken out.

Yeah, I am familiar with New Jersey and how their legal system works, have a few high level Law Enforcement friends in New Jersey.
In most other states there are no laws concerning that type of activity other than "interfering with the court" which would require a legal cease and desist order prior to any other action being taken, even in New Jersey.

 

[JakeStarkey]

". . . in TX you can't have your property seized, like cell phones or be fingerprinted or photographed except subsequent to arrest." Of course such can be taken then returned without arrest

 

[SwimExpert]

In TX your vehicle is considered an extension of your home, did they have individual warrants for each vehicle. Also in TX you can't have your property seized, like cell phones or be fingerprinted or photographed except subsequent to arrest. No one was arrested so there was no legal justification for what was done.

Bullshit. A search warrant can authorize searching vehicles present at the specified address on the warrant. There does not need to be separate warrants to search each individual's vehicles, nor grounds to search each individuals' homes. Nor is there anything that prohibits property being seized without an individual being arrested. Furthermore, you are assuming the warrant was a state warrant. Being that there were FBI agents present it could have been a federal warrant. That would make all of your Texurbation theories completely moot.

 

[Ringel05]

By law if someone is not advocating the use of force or violence to overthrow the Federal government, any local, county or state government he/she/they are withing their rights as protected by the First Amendment however if they are participating in other actions that are illegal then it's a whole nother story.

This is a group that sees the United States as an illegitimate government over Texas, and that they are the rightful government exercising sovereignty over the land. The meeting raided was what they call their Congress.

I can claim my property is a country unto itself and claim it's so because I have never sworn allegiance to the United States (I have) or the locality, county and state it resides in. Doesn't make my claim legal.

When you attempt or portend to usurp the sovereignty of the land away from the United States, you are committing an act of rebellion against the sovereignty of the nation. This "group" contends to be the legitimate government of a country they call the Republic of Texas, which they claim is the same Republic of Texas that became defunct in the 19th century. They have a President, a Congress, and a judiciary. They attempt to exercise sovereign power (this raid was initiated after they attempted to hold bankruptcy proceedings and attempted to summon someone, who then took the fraudulent court documents to police). As their website says:

There is no need for the republic of Texas to seced from the United States. We never "ceded" the land of Texas to them or to anyone else.

Proclamation

Wrong, it is only illegal if the threat of armed insurrection, use of violence is promoted. Now if I refuse to pay my taxes, Forcibly deny or use orther violence against legal representatives of the government with appropriate legal "warrant" etc then I can be prosecuted for that but you cannot be prosecuted for simply declaring your property a sovereign state.

 

[OKTexas]

The benefit of the doubt, rightly or wrongly, tends to go to law enforcement here. You guys just don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot. Had this been the Communists you'd be mad because they all weren't still in jail...

Nope. I don't have a problem with communists having a meeting. They aren't even accused of committing a crime, so why were they arrested?

No one was arrested. Read the story.

Then they had no legal authority to seize their property, fingerprint or photograph them. They definitely had no authority to search their vehicles.

I think the story could be false, written with the intention to stir up people who are all too ready to believe whatever they see on the internet. The bar for posting blogs and fake videos is very, very, very, very low as in, there is none.

The Huston Chronicle:

Feds raid Texas secessionist meeting - Houston Chronicle

That's the same article, by the same reporter I posted.

 

[OKTexas]

In TX your vehicle is considered an extension of your home, did they have individual warrants for each vehicle. Also in TX you can't have your property seized, like cell phones or be fingerprinted or photographed except subsequent to arrest. No one was arrested so there was no legal justification for what was done.

Bullshit. A search warrant can authorize searching vehicles present at the specified address on the warrant. There does not need to be separate warrants to search each individual's vehicles, nor grounds to search each individuals' homes. Nor is there anything that prohibits property being seized without an individual being arrested. Furthermore, you are assuming the warrant was a state warrant. Being that there were FBI agents present it could have been a federal warrant. That would make all of your Texurbation theories completely moot.

A warrant written so broad as to include 60+ unknown individuals and their property would never stand up in court. Maybe you should read the fourth amendment again.

 

[SwimExpert]

Wrong, it is only illegal if the threat of armed insurrection, use of violence is promoted. Now if I refuse to pay my taxes, Forcibly deny or use orther violence against legal representatives of the government with appropriate legal "warrant" etc then I can be prosecuted for that but you cannot be prosecuted for simply declaring your property a sovereign state.

Hold on for a second...are you saying that by declaring themselves the "legitimate" government of Texas, and declaring Texas a sovereign nation unto itself, and declaring the United States an illegitimate occupying force, and by holding governmental functions and attempting to exercise sovereignty....that they're not engaging in rebellion?

Da fuk?