Free mental health treatment for gun enthusiasts

[M14 Shooter]

What's the yearly financial cost of firearm crime on America? You have to add on any compensation paid to claim victims.

No we don't.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

It's already part of federal gun laws that those adjudicated to be mentally ill are prohibited from owning guns

True, but where and how does adjudication begin?

That's one of the worries about these Red Flag law that allow Extreme Protection Orders to be issued without the protections of the 4th Amendment (think of exigent circuumstances when the police claim an immediate emergency allows them to violate the 4th Amendment and break into a vehicle or home without the requisite conditions for doing so being present, primarily having a warrant signed by a judge allowing them to do so).

While I haven't seen anything too concerning on this front other than just the mere nature of this legislation, I also haven't been tracking their issuance due to other time-sensative items on my plate, but the fact that the first one in the country was issued here in King County in Washington State a year or so back is what caught my attention in the first place.

I believe it or at least one of the early one was issued against a "person of interest" who is alleged to be the leader of the white supremacist group AtomWaffen (Leader of ‘Atomwaffen’ hate group convicted of five federal felonies for conspiracy to threaten journalists and Anti-Defamation League employees)

The thing is, that many people will see white supremacist hate group and think yeah that's a good call, however once precedence is made, if they can do this to them, they can do it to any one of us, because everything is secret, it's done behind closed doors, and your ability to contest what they want done only comes after the damage is done (due process comes after the fact not before).

This may not seem any different than the way things are done normally but it is and worthy of further research for anyone interested.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

That's true.

The only thing I would add is that parents, school or place of work could report you to police. The police would look into it and see if there was evidence that you were crazy. If the cops think you're crazy too, they could put you in the program where you receive free mental health care.

It could even be that the psychiatrist says that you can get your guns back as long as you agree to take your meds.

I'm pretty sure all of that happened to Nicklaus (sp) Cruz, the Parkland Florida shooter who killed 17 of his classmates and although one police officer tried to get him held temporarily under the Baker Act, and the FBI was allegedly sent social media posts where Cruz indicated that he wanted to be the next school shooter or something to that affect, no one did anything about him.

Well nothing besides attempting to prosecute the school resource officer Scot Petersen whom it seems was the ONLY person who tried to 'get Cruz help/protect his charges'.

I personally think the prosecutors who charged Petersen should be brought up on malicious prosecution. I understand the parents are devastated by the loss of their children but we have got to get away from this line of thinking of "somebody has to pay" even if it's not the right somebody.

 

[Blues Man]

True, but where and how does adjudication begin?

That's one of the worries about these Red Flag law that allow Extreme Protection Orders to be issued without the protections of the 4th Amendment (think of exigent circuumstances when the police claim an immediate emergency allows them to violate the 4th Amendment and break into a vehicle or home without the requisite conditions for doing so being present, primarily having a warrant signed by a judge allowing them to do so).

While I haven't seen anything too concerning on this front other than just the mere nature of this legislation, I also haven't been tracking their issuance due to other time-sensative items on my plate, but the fact that the first one in the country was issued here in King County in Washington State a year or so back is what caught my attention in the first place.

I believe it or at least one of the early one was issued against a "person of interest" who is alleged to be the leader of the white supremacist group AtomWaffen (Leader of ‘Atomwaffen’ hate group convicted of five federal felonies for conspiracy to threaten journalists and Anti-Defamation League employees)

The thing is, that many people will see white supremacist hate group and think yeah that's a good call, however once precedence is made, if they can do this to them, they can do it to any one of us, because everything is secret, it's done behind closed doors, and your ability to contest what they want done only comes after the damage is done (due process comes after the fact not before).

This may not seem any different than the way things are done normally but it is and worthy of further research for anyone interested.

With families and medical doctors.

Red flag laws are entirely unconstitutional IMO as a person is given no opportunity to face his accusers in court, is given no time to hire a lawyer and prepare a defense and the claims of persons other than professional mental health or medical providers is not needed.

 

[NewsVine_Mariyam]

With families and medical doctors.

Red flag laws are entirely unconstitutional IMO as a person is given no opportunity to face his accusers in court, is given no time to hire a lawyer and prepare a defense and the claims of persons other than professional mental health or medical providers is not needed.

And one shouldn't be too trustworthy of a person simply because they are a medical professional. There are plenty of them who are anti 2nd amendment, that use children to try to get information on whether or not their parents have weapons and determine if they are in a perceived unsafe environment.

I detest the term "gun violence" because the gun is simply the vehicle with which the violence is exercised. If they want to work on something, they should start with all of the demonstrably violent individuals in society who repeatedly show up in the criminal justice system as violent towards others, especially domestic violence abusers. For some reason they are often overlooked as perpetrating crimes of violence even though it says it right there in the name.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Wrong, LE can detain a person as to 5150 W&I.

Codes Display Text

Not wrong.

Law enforcement may only sequester a person’s firearms due to mental health concerns pursuant to a court order.

One cannot be designated a prohibited person if not adjudicated to be mentally incompetent.

The OP is advocating for a mental health evaluation as a prerequisite to taking possession of a firearm absent evidence of a mental health disorder and due process, which is un-Constitutional.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

exigent circuumstances when the police claim an immediate emergency allows them to violate the 4th Amendment

If a situation is considered an exigent circumstance as a matter of Constitutional law, then it doesn’t violate the 4th Amendment.

Otherwise, your post is a slippery slope fallacy – such protection orders can be issued pursuant only to a court order, everyone must be afforded due process, including white supremacists.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

And one shouldn't be too trustworthy of a person simply because they are a medical professional.

Which is why the testimony and evidence is evaluated by a neutral magistrate, who will make a ruling based on the law.

And the gunowner is afforded due process, the right to a hearing on his behalf.

 

[Otis Mayfield]

Which is why the testimony and evidence is evaluated by a neutral magistrate, who will make a ruling based on the law.

And the gunowner is afforded due process, the right to a hearing on his behalf.

Yes, if you're running around the back 40, buck naked, chasing the goat, shooting over the goat's head, yelling at it to stop, and the cops throw a net over you.

They can submit you to the program.

You yell that you're not crazy, and that everyone else is crazy, and where did that goat go?

You get a hearing before a judge. The judge makes a ruling.

And the psychiatrist will check you out and see if you're truly nutts.

A lot of this is already in place. You can be admitted to a mental hospital involuntarily, if you're a threat to yourself or others. That's been the law for decades.

I'm just saying we should make it easier for officials to get guns out of the hands of crazy people.

 

[2aguy]

With families and medical doctors.

Red flag laws are entirely unconstitutional IMO as a person is given no opportunity to face his accusers in court, is given no time to hire a lawyer and prepare a defense and the claims of persons other than professional mental health or medical providers is not needed.

And then the entire burden of proving their defense, and getting their guns back is on them........

Any stupid Red Flag law needs the state to pay all legal fees and other fees of the person targeted, including reimbursment for lost time at work......