Free Speech for Teachers or Not?

[longknife]

This is exactly what got the unions to rise up against Gov Walker. He was behind stopping this rip-off and the unions went after him.

This is truly a local problem but, as always, the matter has to go to SCOTUS.

Nobody should be regulated to have money removed to pay an entity they do not willingly support.

How loud would the Left scream is employers took tithing from their workers to donate to their own church?

It's the same thing.

 

[Lumpy 1]

This is exactly what got the unions to rise up against Gov Walker. He was behind stopping this rip-off and the unions went after him.

This is truly a local problem but, as always, the matter has to go to SCOTUS.

Nobody should be regulated to have money removed to pay an entity they do not willingly support.

How loud would the Left scream is employers took tithing from their workers to donate to their own church?

It's the same thing.

I kinda wondered reading through this if members would get back to the topic at hand.

.The only thing I disagree with is that it's a local problem. The power of the Teachers Unions is screwing up the educational systems country wide.

 

[initforme]

I am a lifelong resident of Wisconsin. We are struggling, Even staunch supporters of his I know are turning against him. He surely iis no presidential candidate. He couldn't cut it in college. The state is struggling while Minnesota is gaining. He talks about getting more people educated yet cuts education massively. I can see some cuts and it would help to change the funding formula, but he isn't interested in that. Instead he cuts everyone's taxes $10 while forcing towns to go to referendums, which pass and then taxes go up. But who is going to watch their schools shut down?

 

[OKTexas]

The last post has nothing to do with the topic. We are talking about someone who works, who contributes a service. I say give them the choice, however they must then individually negotiate their own contract and benefits.

Do you really think a good teacher would have problems with that? I don't think they would.

 

[JoeB131]

The last post has nothing to do with the topic. We are talking about someone who works, who contributes a service. I say give them the choice, however they must then individually negotiate their own contract and benefits.

Yeah, because individually, you have so much bargaining power.

 

[Timmy]

No say ? Teachers can say whatever they want . Union or otherwise .

 

[JoeB131]

tell me how raising wages artificially, are good for the economy. ACTUALLY good. Not some emotional feel good bullshit.

let's see now. Working people get their FAIR SHARE of the wealth. Which means instead of blowing that money on bullshit like yachts and dressage horses and car elevators, they spend it on consumer goods and services, which in turn, employs more working people to provide those things.

It's no coincidence that the more the wealth has shifted to the top 1%, the weaker the economy has become.

 

[JoeB131]

It could be argued that they don't want to work harder to make more money for some one else. That's been one of my biggest problems with unions. You could be the worst teacher in the history of teaching and make the same money, receive the same benefits and retire with the same package as the best teacher in the history of teaching. And of course at the end of the day the real losers are the students.

Guy, that would be a good argument if the managers were actually alloting rewards based on merit instead of bullshit.

Having worked for 24 years in the private sector after leaving the Army, I can tell you that just isn't the case. I've seen people promoted for fucking the boss, I've seen people fired because they were gay, I've seen people given jobs they were in no way qualified for because they were one of the GM's drinking buddies. I've been lied to by nearly every employer I have ever had. So, no, while I might not like the Union giving the group slacker good benefits, it's better than the alternative of being subject to the whims of the Pointy-Haired Boss.

A system where principals decide who gets the merit pay is not going to result in the best teacher getting recongized. It's going to result in the worst teacher learning who to suck up to, while the best teacher finally decides she's be happier doing something else for a living.

 

[bodecea]

Should a teacher be forced to pay union dues or agency fees when they have no say in the public-sector (teachers) union and their political, administrative, use of tax dollars, policies or most importantly what they feel is best for the students welfare and learning experience?

Kindly check out the link, well worth the read and I only scratched the surface, alas, none to well...

Meet the California Teacher Taking On the Unions

Sure...they shouldn't have to pay...they don't have to get the benefits of collective bargaining either. Compute what teacher pay was before the FIRST union settled collective bargaining contract and pay them that.

 

[bodecea]

This is exactly what got the unions to rise up against Gov Walker. He was behind stopping this rip-off and the unions went after him.

This is truly a local problem but, as always, the matter has to go to SCOTUS.

Nobody should be regulated to have money removed to pay an entity they do not willingly support.

How loud would the Left scream is employers took tithing from their workers to donate to their own church?

It's the same thing.

I kinda wondered reading through this if members would get back to the topic at hand.

.The only thing I disagree with is that it's a local problem. The power of the Teachers Unions is screwing up the educational systems country wide.

How so?

 

[JoeB131]

Artificially raising wages are lazy. If you wanted higher wages, you need to drop this lefty bullshit of punishing the rich. Give the job creators incentive for investing here. We need to stop amnesty and actually FIX our immigration. Plus, employers have SO MUCH regulation now. Thanks big government!
Few other factors, obviously.

Actually, if this was the best list you had, it was kind of sad.

We've given the store away to the rich, but they really aren't that interested. Why should they be. There are governments out there that will happily let you set up a factory that will poison the air and water as long as the big shots get their beaks wet. The problem is you guys on the right want us to be more like Mexico or China.

"Fixing" immigration isn't going to solve the problem of the rich wanting to exploit the people who do the actual work.

 

[Wyatt earp]

The Republican Mantra "I want to work harder for less money!"

Yup, they're that stupid.

tell me how raising wages artificially, are good for the economy. ACTUALLY good. Not some emotional feel good bullshit.

Would you explain how flat or declining wages are good for the economy.

I didn't say they were, Mr. Strawman.
Try again?

Well guy it is one or the other. Wages are not increasing at a meaningful rate.

You seem opposed to forcing the MW to rise.

So what good does flat or declinig wages DO.

Give a credible answer though.

The only person on here that uses the term "guy" is Joe b


Are you a sock of his, I suppose.

 

[baileyn45]

It could be argued that they don't want to work harder to make more money for some one else. That's been one of my biggest problems with unions. You could be the worst teacher in the history of teaching and make the same money, receive the same benefits and retire with the same package as the best teacher in the history of teaching. And of course at the end of the day the real losers are the students.

Guy, that would be a good argument if the managers were actually alloting rewards based on merit instead of bullshit.

Having worked for 24 years in the private sector after leaving the Army, I can tell you that just isn't the case. I've seen people promoted for fucking the boss, I've seen people fired because they were gay, I've seen people given jobs they were in no way qualified for because they were one of the GM's drinking buddies. I've been lied to by nearly every employer I have ever had. So, no, while I might not like the Union giving the group slacker good benefits, it's better than the alternative of being subject to the whims of the Pointy-Haired Boss.

A system where principals decide who gets the merit pay is not going to result in the best teacher getting recongized. It's going to result in the worst teacher learning who to suck up to, while the best teacher finally decides she's be happier doing something else for a living.

At least in the private sector you have the possibility of the market cleaning up such trash. I've run a mfr company for 27yrs and if I hired, fired and promoted like that I wouldn't be in business very long.

With govt unions you basically have to kill some one, on the premises, to get fired. In the private sector lousy employees produce lousy widgets. In the schools they produce uneducated children.

I'm in Cleveland, Ohio and grew up around the unions. At this point in time I will not even consider hiring union contractors, ever. Over paid, under worked and quite frankly just plain lazy. If I had a nickel for every time I listened to union guys brag about how little they work and how much they can cost the company, I'd retire.

If you want to see what unfettered unionism leads to watch the movie "Kill The Irishman". I know family members of people portrayed in that movie and it was all union insanity. One character that isn't in the movie but should have been, was starting his car from his bedroom in 1972.

I'll tell you an old joke from those days. I'm sitting in a bar telling jokes with friends. At the other end of the bar are a bunch of teamster, 9 or 10 of them. Big tough looking guys. Over hearing us telling jokes one yells over, "hey how many teamsters does it take to screw in a light bulb?". I say "I don't know". They all get up walk down the bar and surround me kinda pressing me up against the bar. And one leans in and says "23. You got a problem with that?".

Another favorite was the guys from local 310. Their motto was "3 guys doing the work of 1 accomplishing nothing".

 

[sealybobo]

Should a teacher be forced to pay union dues or agency fees when they have no say in the public-sector (teachers) union and their political, administrative, use of tax dollars, policies or most importantly what they feel is best for the students welfare and learning experience?

Kindly check out the link, well worth the read and I only scratched the surface, alas, none to well...

Meet the California Teacher Taking On the Unions

If they don't pay the dues they shouldn't get the protections.

That means make the same pay a charter school teacher makes.

But then they'd just hire cheap non union teachers. They'd break the union. So no. The teachers would walk.

 

[Lumpy 1]

This is exactly what got the unions to rise up against Gov Walker. He was behind stopping this rip-off and the unions went after him.

This is truly a local problem but, as always, the matter has to go to SCOTUS.

Nobody should be regulated to have money removed to pay an entity they do not willingly support.

How loud would the Left scream is employers took tithing from their workers to donate to their own church?

It's the same thing.

I kinda wondered reading through this if members would get back to the topic at hand.

.The only thing I disagree with is that it's a local problem. The power of the Teachers Unions is screwing up the educational systems country wide.

How so?

Do some research on your own, apply critical though and good luck.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Should a teacher be forced to pay union dues or agency fees when they have no say in the public-sector (teachers) union and their political, administrative, use of tax dollars, policies or most importantly what they feel is best for the students welfare and learning experience?

Kindly check out the link, well worth the read and I only scratched the surface, alas, none to well...

Meet the California Teacher Taking On the Unions

If they don't pay the dues they shouldn't get the protections.

That means make the same pay a charter school teacher makes.

But then they'd just hire cheap non union teachers. They'd break the union. So no. The teachers would walk.

I wish you would have read the link...

 

[frigidweirdo]

Should a teacher be forced to pay union dues or agency fees when they have no say in the public-sector (teachers) union and their political, administrative, use of tax dollars, policies or most importantly what they feel is best for the students welfare and learning experience?

Kindly check out the link, well worth the read and I only scratched the surface, alas, none to well...

Meet the California Teacher Taking On the Unions

No one should have to join a union and no one should be prevented from joining a union.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Should a teacher be forced to pay union dues or agency fees when they have no say in the public-sector (teachers) union and their political, administrative, use of tax dollars, policies or most importantly what they feel is best for the students welfare and learning experience?

Kindly check out the link, well worth the read and I only scratched the surface, alas, none to well...

Meet the California Teacher Taking On the Unions

No one should have to join a union and no one should be prevented from joining a union.

They don't have to join the union but they do have to pay agency fees and they have no voice on what the union does, kinda like taxing without representation. It's obvious you didn't bother to read the link...

 

[Timmy]

Should a teacher be forced to pay union dues or agency fees when they have no say in the public-sector (teachers) union and their political, administrative, use of tax dollars, policies or most importantly what they feel is best for the students welfare and learning experience?

Kindly check out the link, well worth the read and I only scratched the surface, alas, none to well...

Meet the California Teacher Taking On the Unions

No one should have to join a union and no one should be prevented from joining a union.

They don't have to join the union but they do have to pay agency fees and they have no voice on what the union does, kinda like taxing without representation. It's obvious you didn't bother to read the link...

Do you think we should give DC it's own congressman and senators?

 

[Lumpy 1]

Should a teacher be forced to pay union dues or agency fees when they have no say in the public-sector (teachers) union and their political, administrative, use of tax dollars, policies or most importantly what they feel is best for the students welfare and learning experience?

Kindly check out the link, well worth the read and I only scratched the surface, alas, none to well...

Meet the California Teacher Taking On the Unions

No one should have to join a union and no one should be prevented from joining a union.

They don't have to join the union but they do have to pay agency fees and they have no voice on what the union does, kinda like taxing without representation. It's obvious you didn't bother to read the link...

Do you think we should give DC it's own congressman and senators?

Nope... DC's a basket case, filled with corruption and crack selling mayor re-elections, in other words Democrat.

What you don't like this topic ..Timmy?