Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output

[Blues Man]

So I went to google. Indeed, Biden calls for all electricity to be generated by renewable sources by 2035. They've got a hell of a long way to go. But I am not worried that they will phase out reliable sources until they've got reliable alternatives on line. That would be stupid.

The wind turbines in Texas are supplemental, used during the hottest months to cover demand for ac. They just tried firing them up for the increased heating demands during this once in a lifetime weather emergency and they too were affected by the highly unusual weather. It doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it, or that it's horribly unreliable. They are also crippled by a lack of natural gas--it's not just the wind turbines. I heard that in some places, the natural gas pipes are freezing as well.

We are experiencing record-breaking electric demand due to the extreme cold temperatures that have gripped Texas," ERCOT President and CEO Bill Magness said in a news release. "At the same time, we are dealing with higher-than-normal generation outages due to frozen wind turbines and limited natural gas supplies available to generating units."

The cold even forced an oil refinery to shut down.

Frozen wind turbines, limited gas supplies and rolling blackouts: Behind Texas' energy woes | CNN

Some of the warmest places in Texas, where rolling power outages are occurring across the chilly state, are inside cars and trucks parked in the driveway of a home without electricity.

www.cnn.com

It's always strange to read this, as for me an electricity interruption has absolutely zero effect on my heating.

Just your flushing. You use wood? I do love walking into a cozy warm house heated by a wood stove on a cold winter's day.

Planet killer. Nothing like chopping down trees to burn them to spew carbon into the atmosphere.

Actually wood heat is carbon neutral the carbon in living trees is not like the old concentrated carbon sources like oil and coal. If managed properly wood heat does not add to atmospheric CO2

That's a sketchy interpretation for a TRUE environmentalist. The issue with wood burning or biomass combustion in general IS NOT CO2.. It's all the OTHER REAL pollutants associated with it.. And it actually CONTAINS CARBON in the exhaust..

Funny that burning trees will save the planet, while planting trees will save the planet.. Even MORE ODD that you can burn TREES CLEANLY -- but you cannot talk about "clean coal"..

I never said anything about saving the planet.

For one wood heat is just impractical for a population as large as ours. But it is still not a net CO2 increase.

And where have we been talking about clean coal?

It's probably possible to capture all the CO2 from a coal plant but that will make coal more expensive.

Like I said I think we should go all in on LFTR reactors and move to have our power generation be at least 80% nuclear with wind, solar and hydro making up the rest.

IMO that is the only way we will ever get off of fossil fuels and be energy independent

 

[Leo123]

It's interesting but has many issues to get to "grid scale" or even "home scale".. Can't produce more energy than you can capture with ANYTHING moving. Whether it's a 30ft turbine blade up on pole or a bunch of these "reeds".. And even a turbine field has to space out the towers so that they don't SHADOW each other or create vortices that lower production.. So making a "mat of reeds" is a bit problematic because they are all in each others' path to the wind.

Also, it's CURRENT generated that matters, and not voltage per se.. To get to even the current drain on a 9V battery -- you'd need maybe 20 times bigger coils and magnets on a "reed" than what this guy is showing..

I agree but if one doesn't experiment no progress can be made. He's got a lot of interesting videos showing different ways to harness wind power. He admits none are ready to generate useful grid power. I would surmise that manufacturing enough 'widgets' like that to generate enough grid power would take more energy to produce than a gallon of gas which can (through the use of a generator) produce useful current.

 

[flacaltenn]

I do love walking into a cozy warm house heated by a wood stove on a cold winter's day.

Movement To Ban Fireplaces Sweeping Across America - Off The Grid News


The most prominent fireplace bans include:

• The Bay Area Air Quality Management District, which includes the cities of San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose and many other communities and which has a ban on wood burning for five years. Under the ban, 178 people received citations for wood burning last year. Those who violate the ban must pay a $100 fine or attend a smoke education class. Second-time offenders can receive a $500 fine. The bans are only put in place on certain days when air quality is low.
• The City of Berkley banned the installation of log-burning fireplaces in new homes in 2008. Activist Jami Caseber, who supported the ban, called it the “first step to controlling or curtailing residential wood burning.” Caseber was disappointed because the city council refused to ban existing fireplaces. Berkley’s law also required restaurants that use wood-burning ovens and grills to install pollution control equipment.
• The city of Montreal wants to eliminate all wood-burning stoves and fireplaces by the end of 2020. The city council ratified a policy this year that would require homeowners to render fireplaces inoperable or replace them with an EPA-approved pellet burner or a gas burner. The city government has a program called Feu-Vert which pays homeowners to replace wood burners with less polluting devices. Like Berkley Montreal banned the installation of wood-burning fireplaces and stoves in new homes in 2009.
• The Environmental Protection Agency has effectively banned the production and sale of most wood burning stoves in the United States with new standards, as previously reported by Off The Grid News. The standards would take 80 percent of the stoves currently sold in the United States off the market.
• The San Joaquin Valley Pollution Control District in Central California, which includes the cities of Tulare, Fresno and Bakersfield, is curtailing wood burning each winter. Persons that don’t have access to natural gas and those who rely on wood or coal as their only source of heat are exempt from the ban.

 

[flacaltenn]

For one wood heat is just impractical for a population as large as ours. But it is still not a net CO2 increase.

You do understand that man's annual CO2 contribution to CO2 cycle is 1/20th of total exchange between nature's cycle of sourcing and sinking CO2 --- right? The OCEANS and land pretty much split the other 19/20ths of that cycle.. And the oceans dont make a distinction between "old and new" carbon in what they emit over their 70% of the Earth's surface area. Methane from leaking rifts contributes much of the annual GHGas emissions. Old CO2 commonly wells up from storage in deeper, colder waters in coastal areas. And cold waters like the Arctic and Southern Oceans are the biggest annual sink of CO2.

Not totally true either that burning wood is CO2 neutral. There is CO2 produced by harvesting, planting, dmanaging and processing that wood. Also there are other hydrocarbons that are byproducts of inefficient burning like all the (VOC) volatile organics, that the plant produces from other than the atmospheric CO2. That's also carbon pollution -- but the REAL KIND of pollution.

 

[Leo123]

I do love walking into a cozy warm house heated by a wood stove on a cold winter's day.

Movement To Ban Fireplaces Sweeping Across America - Off The Grid News


The most prominent fireplace bans include:

• The Bay Area Air Quality Management District, which includes the cities of San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose and many other communities and which has a ban on wood burning for five years. Under the ban, 178 people received citations for wood burning last year. Those who violate the ban must pay a $100 fine or attend a smoke education class. Second-time offenders can receive a $500 fine. The bans are only put in place on certain days when air quality is low.
• The City of Berkley banned the installation of log-burning fireplaces in new homes in 2008. Activist Jami Caseber, who supported the ban, called it the “first step to controlling or curtailing residential wood burning.” Caseber was disappointed because the city council refused to ban existing fireplaces. Berkley’s law also required restaurants that use wood-burning ovens and grills to install pollution control equipment.
• The city of Montreal wants to eliminate all wood-burning stoves and fireplaces by the end of 2020. The city council ratified a policy this year that would require homeowners to render fireplaces inoperable or replace them with an EPA-approved pellet burner or a gas burner. The city government has a program called Feu-Vert which pays homeowners to replace wood burners with less polluting devices. Like Berkley Montreal banned the installation of wood-burning fireplaces and stoves in new homes in 2009.
• The Environmental Protection Agency has effectively banned the production and sale of most wood burning stoves in the United States with new standards, as previously reported by Off The Grid News. The standards would take 80 percent of the stoves currently sold in the United States off the market.
• The San Joaquin Valley Pollution Control District in Central California, which includes the cities of Tulare, Fresno and Bakersfield, is curtailing wood burning each winter. Persons that don’t have access to natural gas and those who rely on wood or coal as their only source of heat are exempt from the ban.

I guess Montreal doesn't think pellets are made of wood?

 

[flacaltenn]

And where have we been talking about clean coal?

It's probably possible to capture all the CO2 from a coal plant but that will make coal more expensive.

It comes up because in addition to wind and solar, the other fielded "alternative" is biomass conversion" which is originally sold under your rubric of "net zero CO2" if you burn a "crop" like trees or even hemp.. And the question is -- how do you burn trees or hemp cleanly if you cannot burn coal cleanly? It's really no different in terms of REAL POLLUTANTS. In reality, MOST FIELDED biomass incinerators are now burning garbage, because "wood waste" is an oxymoron.. Nothing is really wasted in logging and lumbering.

Coal plants could use 40 years of improving stack scrubbing technology and owners have been WILLING to upgrade, but they cannot get the permits since EPA science and called CO2 a pollutant. The govt wont permit unless they include CO2 mitigation.

Not much diff between old carbon coal and trees. Not like those coal veins lying close to surface are ACTUALLY totally sequestered.. They naturally combine with benzene and other hydrocarbons and leak into the atmos all the time.. Either as CO2 or nat gas.. That's how you get "flaming ponds" and smelly tap water in certain areas near deposits.

 

[flacaltenn]

I do love walking into a cozy warm house heated by a wood stove on a cold winter's day.

Movement To Ban Fireplaces Sweeping Across America - Off The Grid News


The most prominent fireplace bans include:

• The Bay Area Air Quality Management District, which includes the cities of San Francisco, Oakland and San Jose and many other communities and which has a ban on wood burning for five years. Under the ban, 178 people received citations for wood burning last year. Those who violate the ban must pay a $100 fine or attend a smoke education class. Second-time offenders can receive a $500 fine. The bans are only put in place on certain days when air quality is low.
• The City of Berkley banned the installation of log-burning fireplaces in new homes in 2008. Activist Jami Caseber, who supported the ban, called it the “first step to controlling or curtailing residential wood burning.” Caseber was disappointed because the city council refused to ban existing fireplaces. Berkley’s law also required restaurants that use wood-burning ovens and grills to install pollution control equipment.
• The city of Montreal wants to eliminate all wood-burning stoves and fireplaces by the end of 2020. The city council ratified a policy this year that would require homeowners to render fireplaces inoperable or replace them with an EPA-approved pellet burner or a gas burner. The city government has a program called Feu-Vert which pays homeowners to replace wood burners with less polluting devices. Like Berkley Montreal banned the installation of wood-burning fireplaces and stoves in new homes in 2009.
• The Environmental Protection Agency has effectively banned the production and sale of most wood burning stoves in the United States with new standards, as previously reported by Off The Grid News. The standards would take 80 percent of the stoves currently sold in the United States off the market.
• The San Joaquin Valley Pollution Control District in Central California, which includes the cities of Tulare, Fresno and Bakersfield, is curtailing wood burning each winter. Persons that don’t have access to natural gas and those who rely on wood or coal as their only source of heat are exempt from the ban.

I guess Montreal doesn't think pellets are made of wood?

no telling how they get to that. Probably because pellets have much less actual pollution because the VOCompounds are removed. Theres no "wood fire smell" to a pellet fire. LOL...

They also dont appreciate the cost of ADDING A GAS LINE to an existing home. And then they will go after the Nat Gas fireplace you put in 10 years from now..

 

[OldLady]

The irony of this event is oh so delicious

Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators.

Wind farms across the state generate up to a combined 25,100 megawatts of energy. But unusually moist winter conditions in West Texas brought on by the weekend's freezing rain and historically low temperatures have iced many of those wind turbines to a halt.

Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output, state's electric grid operator says

Texas grid operators urge conservation as frozen wind turbines freeze up electric generation.

www.statesman.com

They should have thought of the worst case scenario and yet they never do because then how else can they have an excuse to let people have no power during a cold snap the might rival 1899 cold snap...

Every winter, in one part of the country, or another, the windmills freeze up and stop producing electricity. This is a regular occurance.

A couple years ago, 18% of Minnesota's grid went down. Windmills and and solar panels produce 18% of Minnesota's electrical output.

It's winter, right? Get your flashlights and thermal underwear out. The difference is, Tucker bitched about it on the teevee. Now all the anti-greenies are in an uproar.

 

[ding]

Whereas I’m bitching because I have been without power since 2am.

 

[initforme]

This storm was a dusting and it's not a big deal. What is wrong with things down there?

 

[White 6]

The irony of this event is oh so delicious

Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators.

Wind farms across the state generate up to a combined 25,100 megawatts of energy. But unusually moist winter conditions in West Texas brought on by the weekend's freezing rain and historically low temperatures have iced many of those wind turbines to a halt.

Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output, state's electric grid operator says

Texas grid operators urge conservation as frozen wind turbines freeze up electric generation.

www.statesman.com

They should have thought of the worst case scenario and yet they never do because then how else can they have an excuse to let people have no power during a cold snap the might rival 1899 cold snap...

Every winter, in one part of the country, or another, the windmills freeze up and stop producing electricity. This is a regular occurance.

A couple years ago, 18% of Minnesota's grid went down. Windmills and and solar panels produce 18% of Minnesota's electrical output.

It's winter, right? Get your flashlights and thermal underwear out. The difference is, Tucker bitched about it on the teevee. Now all the anti-greenies are in an uproar.

I hate to break it to you, but failure of wind turbines was only 13% of the failures causing the blackouts in Texas, the bulk of it is due to frozen instruments at the natural gas installations. The head of the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) said the causes of the blackout:

First, some power plants may not have been operational due to routine maintenance, Cohan said. Peak demand typically occurs in the summer, so it's not unexpected for a coal or natural gas plant to be offline in an effort to tune up for the warmer months.

Second, some power plants may have failed to operate in the cold, Cohan said. "Plants are optimized to run under our typical and our extreme summer conditions but they aren't as well prepared and engineered for extreme cold," he said.

According to Rai, if plants operate for too long in too extreme of conditions, it could be too costly to operate as well as cause damage to the equipment, which could further exacerbate the outages for longer periods of time.

Third, some natural gas plants may not have been able to get adequate supply of gas to be converted into electricity, Cohan said. Unlike a coal plant that has an ready stockpile, natural gas plants don't store as much on site, meaning any disruption at the supply source will lead to a disruption in turning on the lights.

Texas planning for Texans or the failure to do so, it the problem.

'Massive failure': Why are millions of people in Texas still without power?

 

[whitehall]

Turbine powered helicopters that might use as much as 100 gallons of fossil fuel used to de-ice a single wind turbine that produces about 1.5 MW. Does the math work?

 

[bodecea]

Mother Nature defeats us all the time, one way or the other. This is just another one of her little love pats.

I think this goes to the question of reliability. Wind and solar are more susceptible to disruptions than the other technologies.

Weren't this time.....the OP is a lie.

 

[bodecea]

The irony of this event is oh so delicious

Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators.

Wind farms across the state generate up to a combined 25,100 megawatts of energy. But unusually moist winter conditions in West Texas brought on by the weekend's freezing rain and historically low temperatures have iced many of those wind turbines to a halt.

Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output, state's electric grid operator says

Texas grid operators urge conservation as frozen wind turbines freeze up electric generation.

www.statesman.com

Where's the "irony"?

wind energy is a scam to freeze texans to death

Well, we can see who is scamming Texicans to death.

 

[bodecea]

The irony of this event is oh so delicious

Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators.

Wind farms across the state generate up to a combined 25,100 megawatts of energy. But unusually moist winter conditions in West Texas brought on by the weekend's freezing rain and historically low temperatures have iced many of those wind turbines to a halt.

Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output, state's electric grid operator says

Texas grid operators urge conservation as frozen wind turbines freeze up electric generation.

www.statesman.com

They should have thought of the worst case scenario and yet they never do because then how else can they have an excuse to let people have no power during a cold snap the might rival 1899 cold snap...

Every winter, in one part of the country, or another, the windmills freeze up and stop producing electricity. This is a regular occurance.

A couple years ago, 18% of Minnesota's grid went down. Windmills and and solar panels produce 18% of Minnesota's electrical output.

It's winter, right? Get your flashlights and thermal underwear out. The difference is, Tucker bitched about it on the teevee. Now all the anti-greenies are in an uproar.

They certainly are easily played, aren't they?

 

[OldLady]

The irony of this event is oh so delicious

Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators.

Wind farms across the state generate up to a combined 25,100 megawatts of energy. But unusually moist winter conditions in West Texas brought on by the weekend's freezing rain and historically low temperatures have iced many of those wind turbines to a halt.

Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output, state's electric grid operator says

Texas grid operators urge conservation as frozen wind turbines freeze up electric generation.

www.statesman.com

They should have thought of the worst case scenario and yet they never do because then how else can they have an excuse to let people have no power during a cold snap the might rival 1899 cold snap...

Every winter, in one part of the country, or another, the windmills freeze up and stop producing electricity. This is a regular occurance.

A couple years ago, 18% of Minnesota's grid went down. Windmills and and solar panels produce 18% of Minnesota's electrical output.

It's winter, right? Get your flashlights and thermal underwear out. The difference is, Tucker bitched about it on the teevee. Now all the anti-greenies are in an uproar.

I hate to break it to you, but failure of wind turbines was only 13% of the failures causing the blackouts in Texas, the bulk of it is due to frozen instruments at the natural gas installations. The head of the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) said the causes of the blackout:

First, some power plants may not have been operational due to routine maintenance, Cohan said. Peak demand typically occurs in the summer, so it's not unexpected for a coal or natural gas plant to be offline in an effort to tune up for the warmer months.

Second, some power plants may have failed to operate in the cold, Cohan said. "Plants are optimized to run under our typical and our extreme summer conditions but they aren't as well prepared and engineered for extreme cold," he said.

According to Rai, if plants operate for too long in too extreme of conditions, it could be too costly to operate as well as cause damage to the equipment, which could further exacerbate the outages for longer periods of time.

Third, some natural gas plants may not have been able to get adequate supply of gas to be converted into electricity, Cohan said. Unlike a coal plant that has an ready stockpile, natural gas plants don't store as much on site, meaning any disruption at the supply source will lead to a disruption in turning on the lights.

Texas planning for Texans or the failure to do so, it the problem.

'Massive failure': Why are millions of people in Texas still without power?

This is reminding me a little of the analysis after Katrina--they knew it could happen, but they kept crossing their fingers it wouldn't happen on their watch, and they didn't do the necessary work ahead of time.

I can understand the argument that this is record breaking, once in a century weather, and it's a valid question if we want to pay for something we may never use. Now that it's happened, maybe they'll be a little more careful about taking gas facilities off line at the same time, but since this probably won't happen again until our grandchildren are grandparents...

Like my post said, the anti-greens are jumping on this to make renewables look awful, when there are clearly a lot of factors at work.

 

[flacaltenn]

The irony of this event is oh so delicious

Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators.

Wind farms across the state generate up to a combined 25,100 megawatts of energy. But unusually moist winter conditions in West Texas brought on by the weekend's freezing rain and historically low temperatures have iced many of those wind turbines to a halt.

Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output, state's electric grid operator says

Texas grid operators urge conservation as frozen wind turbines freeze up electric generation.

www.statesman.com

They should have thought of the worst case scenario and yet they never do because then how else can they have an excuse to let people have no power during a cold snap the might rival 1899 cold snap...

Every winter, in one part of the country, or another, the windmills freeze up and stop producing electricity. This is a regular occurance.

A couple years ago, 18% of Minnesota's grid went down. Windmills and and solar panels produce 18% of Minnesota's electrical output.

It's winter, right? Get your flashlights and thermal underwear out. The difference is, Tucker bitched about it on the teevee. Now all the anti-greenies are in an uproar.

I hate to break it to you, but failure of wind turbines was only 13% of the failures causing the blackouts in Texas, the bulk of it is due to frozen instruments at the natural gas installations. The head of the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) said the causes of the blackout:

First, some power plants may not have been operational due to routine maintenance, Cohan said. Peak demand typically occurs in the summer, so it's not unexpected for a coal or natural gas plant to be offline in an effort to tune up for the warmer months.

Second, some power plants may have failed to operate in the cold, Cohan said. "Plants are optimized to run under our typical and our extreme summer conditions but they aren't as well prepared and engineered for extreme cold," he said.

According to Rai, if plants operate for too long in too extreme of conditions, it could be too costly to operate as well as cause damage to the equipment, which could further exacerbate the outages for longer periods of time.

Third, some natural gas plants may not have been able to get adequate supply of gas to be converted into electricity, Cohan said. Unlike a coal plant that has an ready stockpile, natural gas plants don't store as much on site, meaning any disruption at the supply source will lead to a disruption in turning on the lights.

Texas planning for Texans or the failure to do so, it the problem.

'Massive failure': Why are millions of people in Texas still without power?

This is reminding me a little of the analysis after Katrina--they knew it could happen, but they kept crossing their fingers it wouldn't happen on their watch, and they didn't do the necessary work ahead of time.

I can understand the argument that this is record breaking, once in a century weather, and it's a valid question if we want to pay for something we may never use. Now that it's happened, maybe they'll be a little more careful about taking gas facilities off line at the same time, but since this probably won't happen again until our grandchildren are grandparents...

Like my post said, the anti-greens are jumping on this to make renewables look awful, when there are clearly a lot of factors at work.

I'm not anti-green. I'm pro science and engineering. Solar plants can be damaged or destroyed by hail or tornadoes. Even chronic windy conditions can shorten their 20 to 30 year life span due to etching by wind driven particles. They can be put out of commission by mere clouds or ice or snow.

Wind farms can be frozen up or face wind conditions too high where the blades need to be locked down. And they freeze up in ice storms. Or USUALLY they usually take 2 to 3 days and many nights a week OFF because -- DUH -- the wind isn't blowing

THESE ARE INHERENT VULNERABILITIES THAT PUBLIC NEVER HAS BEEN EDUCATED ABOUT...

There's NONE of this discussion goin on as the Left attempts to SUBSTITUTE these grid generators after they demolish, decommission, and kill off all of our STABLE AND RELIABLE grid generation methods. People WILL DIE if they succeed here.

As for the icing of the nat gas turbines in Texas, this is what happens when you are shutting down these stable and reliable sources by EDICT to take renewable first onto the grid. The maintenance issues INCREASE and the latent heat of operation is not available to PREVENT "freezing up".. So a storm blows in and the grid operators order the nat gas turbines to be shut down because the wind is going gang busters for a change.. But the temperature drops maybe 30 or 40 degrees in a matter of hours. Instead of idling these turbines at some low output -- they freeze also.. The private operators are not gonna pay for fuel when they can NOT sell their power. DUH!! White 6

Seems like you're expecting politicians with a CRITICAL EARTH SAVING mission to be aware of all this. Largely they are not.. They will screw this up as they've screwed up my washing machine, light bulbs, heat pumps/AC and toilets.

 

[flacaltenn]

This is a busy graph with a lot of data -- but it needs to be seen.. Pay attention to the GREEN line which is Wind and the light brown line which is nat gas. A nat gas turbine energy output CAN BE FLAT as the texas nuclear plant (red line), but Texas is using "fast response" nat gas plants to BALANCE OUT the long hours and DAYS with no appreciable wind. So you see the TWO of them dancing together in opposite syncopation as wind goes from almost zero to substantial to balance the DEMAND on the grid.

The yellow line is all of Texas solar.

 

[OldLady]

The irony of this event is oh so delicious

Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators.

Wind farms across the state generate up to a combined 25,100 megawatts of energy. But unusually moist winter conditions in West Texas brought on by the weekend's freezing rain and historically low temperatures have iced many of those wind turbines to a halt.

Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output, state's electric grid operator says

Texas grid operators urge conservation as frozen wind turbines freeze up electric generation.

www.statesman.com

They should have thought of the worst case scenario and yet they never do because then how else can they have an excuse to let people have no power during a cold snap the might rival 1899 cold snap...

Every winter, in one part of the country, or another, the windmills freeze up and stop producing electricity. This is a regular occurance.

A couple years ago, 18% of Minnesota's grid went down. Windmills and and solar panels produce 18% of Minnesota's electrical output.

It's winter, right? Get your flashlights and thermal underwear out. The difference is, Tucker bitched about it on the teevee. Now all the anti-greenies are in an uproar.

I hate to break it to you, but failure of wind turbines was only 13% of the failures causing the blackouts in Texas, the bulk of it is due to frozen instruments at the natural gas installations. The head of the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) said the causes of the blackout:

First, some power plants may not have been operational due to routine maintenance, Cohan said. Peak demand typically occurs in the summer, so it's not unexpected for a coal or natural gas plant to be offline in an effort to tune up for the warmer months.

Second, some power plants may have failed to operate in the cold, Cohan said. "Plants are optimized to run under our typical and our extreme summer conditions but they aren't as well prepared and engineered for extreme cold," he said.

According to Rai, if plants operate for too long in too extreme of conditions, it could be too costly to operate as well as cause damage to the equipment, which could further exacerbate the outages for longer periods of time.

Third, some natural gas plants may not have been able to get adequate supply of gas to be converted into electricity, Cohan said. Unlike a coal plant that has an ready stockpile, natural gas plants don't store as much on site, meaning any disruption at the supply source will lead to a disruption in turning on the lights.

Texas planning for Texans or the failure to do so, it the problem.

'Massive failure': Why are millions of people in Texas still without power?

This is reminding me a little of the analysis after Katrina--they knew it could happen, but they kept crossing their fingers it wouldn't happen on their watch, and they didn't do the necessary work ahead of time.

I can understand the argument that this is record breaking, once in a century weather, and it's a valid question if we want to pay for something we may never use. Now that it's happened, maybe they'll be a little more careful about taking gas facilities off line at the same time, but since this probably won't happen again until our grandchildren are grandparents...

Like my post said, the anti-greens are jumping on this to make renewables look awful, when there are clearly a lot of factors at work.

I'm not anti-green. I'm pro science and engineering. Solar plants can be damaged or destroyed by hail or tornadoes. Even chronic windy conditions can shorten their 20 to 30 year life span due to etching by wind driven particles. They can be put out of commission by mere clouds or ice or snow.

Wind farms can be frozen up or face wind conditions too high where the blades need to be locked down. And they freeze up in ice storms. Or USUALLY they usually take 2 to 3 days and many nights a week OFF because -- DUH -- the wind isn't blowing

THESE ARE INHERENT VULNERABILITIES THAT PUBLIC NEVER HAS BEEN EDUCATED ABOUT...

There's NONE of this discussion goin on as the Left attempts to SUBSTITUTE these grid generators after they demolish, decommission, and kill off all of our STABLE AND RELIABLE grid generation methods. People WILL DIE if they succeed here.

As for the icing of the nat gas turbines in Texas, this is what happens when you are shutting down these stable and reliable sources by EDICT to take renewable first onto the grid. The maintenance issues INCREASE and the latent heat of operation is not available to PREVENT "freezing up".. So a storm blows in and the grid operators order the nat gas turbines to be shut down because the wind is going gang busters for a change.. But the temperature drops maybe 30 or 40 degrees in a matter of hours. Instead of idling these turbines at some low output -- they freeze also.. The private operators are not gonna pay for fuel when they can NOT sell their power. DUH!! White 6

Seems like you're expecting politicians with a CRITICAL EARTH SAVING mission to be aware of all this. Largely they are not.. They will screw this up as they've screwed up my washing machine, light bulbs, heat pumps/AC and toilets.

Read this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/02/16/ercot-texas-electric-grid-failure/

But wind accounts for just 10 percent of the power in Texas generated during the winter. And the loss of power to the grid caused by shutdowns of thermal power plants, primarily those relying on natural gas, dwarfed the dent caused by frozen wind turbines, by a factor of five or six.

it's about $$$ Shocked?

 

[Devils_Advocate]

The irony of this event is oh so delicious

Nearly half of Texas' installed wind power generation capacity has been offline because of frozen wind turbines in West Texas, according to Texas grid operators.

Wind farms across the state generate up to a combined 25,100 megawatts of energy. But unusually moist winter conditions in West Texas brought on by the weekend's freezing rain and historically low temperatures have iced many of those wind turbines to a halt.

Frozen wind turbines hamper Texas power output, state's electric grid operator says

Texas grid operators urge conservation as frozen wind turbines freeze up electric generation.

www.statesman.com

They should have thought of the worst case scenario and yet they never do because then how else can they have an excuse to let people have no power during a cold snap the might rival 1899 cold snap...

Every winter, in one part of the country, or another, the windmills freeze up and stop producing electricity. This is a regular occurance.

A couple years ago, 18% of Minnesota's grid went down. Windmills and and solar panels produce 18% of Minnesota's electrical output.

It's winter, right? Get your flashlights and thermal underwear out. The difference is, Tucker bitched about it on the teevee. Now all the anti-greenies are in an uproar.

I hate to break it to you, but failure of wind turbines was only 13% of the failures causing the blackouts in Texas, the bulk of it is due to frozen instruments at the natural gas installations. The head of the Electric Reliability Council of Texas (ERCOT) said the causes of the blackout:

First, some power plants may not have been operational due to routine maintenance, Cohan said. Peak demand typically occurs in the summer, so it's not unexpected for a coal or natural gas plant to be offline in an effort to tune up for the warmer months.

Second, some power plants may have failed to operate in the cold, Cohan said. "Plants are optimized to run under our typical and our extreme summer conditions but they aren't as well prepared and engineered for extreme cold," he said.

According to Rai, if plants operate for too long in too extreme of conditions, it could be too costly to operate as well as cause damage to the equipment, which could further exacerbate the outages for longer periods of time.

Third, some natural gas plants may not have been able to get adequate supply of gas to be converted into electricity, Cohan said. Unlike a coal plant that has an ready stockpile, natural gas plants don't store as much on site, meaning any disruption at the supply source will lead to a disruption in turning on the lights.

Texas planning for Texans or the failure to do so, it the problem.

'Massive failure': Why are millions of people in Texas still without power?

This is reminding me a little of the analysis after Katrina--they knew it could happen, but they kept crossing their fingers it wouldn't happen on their watch, and they didn't do the necessary work ahead of time.

I can understand the argument that this is record breaking, once in a century weather, and it's a valid question if we want to pay for something we may never use. Now that it's happened, maybe they'll be a little more careful about taking gas facilities off line at the same time, but since this probably won't happen again until our grandchildren are grandparents...

Like my post said, the anti-greens are jumping on this to make renewables look awful, when there are clearly a lot of factors at work.

I'm not anti-green. I'm pro science and engineering. Solar plants can be damaged or destroyed by hail or tornadoes. Even chronic windy conditions can shorten their 20 to 30 year life span due to etching by wind driven particles. They can be put out of commission by mere clouds or ice or snow.

Wind farms can be frozen up or face wind conditions too high where the blades need to be locked down. And they freeze up in ice storms. Or USUALLY they usually take 2 to 3 days and many nights a week OFF because -- DUH -- the wind isn't blowing

THESE ARE INHERENT VULNERABILITIES THAT PUBLIC NEVER HAS BEEN EDUCATED ABOUT...

There's NONE of this discussion goin on as the Left attempts to SUBSTITUTE these grid generators after they demolish, decommission, and kill off all of our STABLE AND RELIABLE grid generation methods. People WILL DIE if they succeed here.

As for the icing of the nat gas turbines in Texas, this is what happens when you are shutting down these stable and reliable sources by EDICT to take renewable first onto the grid. The maintenance issues INCREASE and the latent heat of operation is not available to PREVENT "freezing up".. So a storm blows in and the grid operators order the nat gas turbines to be shut down because the wind is going gang busters for a change.. But the temperature drops maybe 30 or 40 degrees in a matter of hours. Instead of idling these turbines at some low output -- they freeze also.. The private operators are not gonna pay for fuel when they can NOT sell their power. DUH!! White 6

Seems like you're expecting politicians with a CRITICAL EARTH SAVING mission to be aware of all this. Largely they are not.. They will screw this up as they've screwed up my washing machine, light bulbs, heat pumps/AC and toilets.

Well seeing I have dealt with hurricanes that only happen every so many years and now one of the coldest streaks in Southeast Texas recent history it make me ask where the hell is the infrastructure?

I was lucky until about two hours ago when the power finally went out and it is 12:40 AM here in Austin County, Texas and I ask myself how is it one of the richest states with natural resources is without power?

I blame decades of not doing shit about infrastructure and I am going to say Democrats will not fix it either if given a damn chance because they never do!

It is time for infrastructure to be the most important thing in this country and as a nation we need to revamp everything and work with a balance and not with ideals only.

We must be realistic and have clean Nuclear, Wind, Solar, Natural Gas and even clean coal energy...

We must invest in a infrastructure where we conserve rain water from buildings, houses and so on along with finding a way to make windows that can harness the solar energy from our businesses and skyscrapers...

I mean we build building so far up and we never truly harness their potential for energy sources from wind and solar with using fans and windows to help create energy.

I mean let take a simple lamp post and why are we not building solar panel within them and if we are then we need to build more because it will create energy over time and if the process is expensive then learn to make it cheaper...

We went from the 1950’s and 1960’s blazing into the technology world and building space ships and the future of the internet and now we have rolling blackouts in a state that should be able to keep everyone on during this crisis?

I understand shit does happen but this is not something that should happen.

Hell I grew up in Illinois and never saw this nonsense as a kid!

Sure the line would snap and power would be lost for a few hours or so while crews fixed the line or whatever but this is totally different and is because we as a nation do not care about our infrastructure at all!

Truth be told I am so sick of the finger pointing and just will say shit need to change but alas it will never change because the government is loving the chaos and if everything ran smoothly then those in power would be voted as usual...

Will try to sleep but reading Center Point website the electric will be out at least one whole day and it make me ask should I invest in a gerbil and wheel to start powering my own home...

Good thing is the automobile will charge my phone and some devices but getting gas will be hard...