Gaza army

[P F Tinmore]

MEMRI has a bad habit of "mistranslating" items from time to time; so has "credibility issues" neatly summarised here:
Selective Memri World news The Guardian
that, and the fact it was set up/owned by ex-IDF intelligence operatives make it highly suspect as regards objectivity.

Generally I have no interest in sound bites less than 5 minutes long, because they always fail to provide proper context.

Most of the moderate Muslim world don't want this sad image of islam translated and shared in the west.
Should these stores be selectively ignored? Intentionally not translated? Truths of what some are saying hidden from all but the radicals?

These are muslims speaking no some fabricated smear piece. Maybe the speakers should be silenced and not those that translate these videos and stories for western eyes and ears.

90%+ Westerners don't speak Arabic (or Israeli/modern Hebrew for that matter) so it's vitally important we get accurate, unbiased, translations consistantly. Misunderstandings and mistranslations can and do lead to conflict. MEMRI has demonstrated unreliability and bias, not least because, it was created, and is run by, ex-IDF intelligence personnel. Examples of alleged inaccuracies can even be found in Wikipedia:
Middle East Media Research Institute - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

and other sources:

Gained in translation - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
MEMRI Back Online After YouTube Backtracks Middle East Haaretz Daily Newspaper Israel News

For me sources must be have a minimum level of credibility and integrity to be considered trustworthy; if there's significant doubt, I'll either ignore them or treat their information with caution and scepticism until I get confirmation from sources I consider reliable.

Take the channel 4 dispatches program, the trick is to watch the program, then look around for any response that may exist, i.e.



Watch the response and then come to a reasoned, informed conclusion, not just treat one side or other as "gospel"

problem is the words spoken are shown at the bottom of the screen and anyone can cut and paste them into a translator programme. So if yiou are too lazy to do that don't say MEMRI is lying.

Did he saw the words recorded if he did then he cant deny them, if a muslim translated his words then that is a reliable source . I saw the programme and it was not just one cleric in one mosque, but many clerics in many mosques around the country spouting the same racist inflammatory incitement to terrorism and violence. Because it was a neo Marxist government the authorities did nothing and swept it under the carpet, just as they did with the widespread child sex abuse. All for a handful of votes at the next elections.

The major problem with MEMRI is that it will take the most wacko extremist and portray him as typical.

Not to mention that they sometimes fudge a little on translations.

Yet you can take the words introduced as sub titles by the originators and translate them yourself, and get the same result. Far too many of these videos to say that they are not typical for the particular regime

Indeed, but when the Palestinians speak for themselves you will not hear that kind of language.

 

[rylah]

Most of the moderate Muslim world don't want this sad image of islam translated and shared in the west.
Should these stores be selectively ignored? Intentionally not translated? Truths of what some are saying hidden from all but the radicals?

These are muslims speaking no some fabricated smear piece. Maybe the speakers should be silenced and not those that translate these videos and stories for western eyes and ears.

90%+ Westerners don't speak Arabic (or Israeli/modern Hebrew for that matter) so it's vitally important we get accurate, unbiased, translations consistantly. Misunderstandings and mistranslations can and do lead to conflict. MEMRI has demonstrated unreliability and bias, not least because, it was created, and is run by, ex-IDF intelligence personnel. Examples of alleged inaccuracies can even be found in Wikipedia:
Middle East Media Research Institute - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

and other sources:

Gained in translation - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
MEMRI Back Online After YouTube Backtracks Middle East Haaretz Daily Newspaper Israel News

For me sources must be have a minimum level of credibility and integrity to be considered trustworthy; if there's significant doubt, I'll either ignore them or treat their information with caution and scepticism until I get confirmation from sources I consider reliable.

Take the channel 4 dispatches program, the trick is to watch the program, then look around for any response that may exist, i.e.



Watch the response and then come to a reasoned, informed conclusion, not just treat one side or other as "gospel"

problem is the words spoken are shown at the bottom of the screen and anyone can cut and paste them into a translator programme. So if yiou are too lazy to do that don't say MEMRI is lying.

Did he saw the words recorded if he did then he cant deny them, if a muslim translated his words then that is a reliable source . I saw the programme and it was not just one cleric in one mosque, but many clerics in many mosques around the country spouting the same racist inflammatory incitement to terrorism and violence. Because it was a neo Marxist government the authorities did nothing and swept it under the carpet, just as they did with the widespread child sex abuse. All for a handful of votes at the next elections.

The major problem with MEMRI is that it will take the most wacko extremist and portray him as typical.

Not to mention that they sometimes fudge a little on translations.

Yet you can take the words introduced as sub titles by the originators and translate them yourself, and get the same result. Far too many of these videos to say that they are not typical for the particular regime

Indeed, but when the Palestinians speak for themselves you will not hear that kind of language.

Like this?

 

[Phoenall]

Most of the moderate Muslim world don't want this sad image of islam translated and shared in the west.
Should these stores be selectively ignored? Intentionally not translated? Truths of what some are saying hidden from all but the radicals?

These are muslims speaking no some fabricated smear piece. Maybe the speakers should be silenced and not those that translate these videos and stories for western eyes and ears.

90%+ Westerners don't speak Arabic (or Israeli/modern Hebrew for that matter) so it's vitally important we get accurate, unbiased, translations consistantly. Misunderstandings and mistranslations can and do lead to conflict. MEMRI has demonstrated unreliability and bias, not least because, it was created, and is run by, ex-IDF intelligence personnel. Examples of alleged inaccuracies can even be found in Wikipedia:
Middle East Media Research Institute - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

and other sources:

Gained in translation - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
MEMRI Back Online After YouTube Backtracks Middle East Haaretz Daily Newspaper Israel News

For me sources must be have a minimum level of credibility and integrity to be considered trustworthy; if there's significant doubt, I'll either ignore them or treat their information with caution and scepticism until I get confirmation from sources I consider reliable.

Take the channel 4 dispatches program, the trick is to watch the program, then look around for any response that may exist, i.e.



Watch the response and then come to a reasoned, informed conclusion, not just treat one side or other as "gospel"

problem is the words spoken are shown at the bottom of the screen and anyone can cut and paste them into a translator programme. So if yiou are too lazy to do that don't say MEMRI is lying.

Did he saw the words recorded if he did then he cant deny them, if a muslim translated his words then that is a reliable source . I saw the programme and it was not just one cleric in one mosque, but many clerics in many mosques around the country spouting the same racist inflammatory incitement to terrorism and violence. Because it was a neo Marxist government the authorities did nothing and swept it under the carpet, just as they did with the widespread child sex abuse. All for a handful of votes at the next elections.

The major problem with MEMRI is that it will take the most wacko extremist and portray him as typical.

Not to mention that they sometimes fudge a little on translations.

Yet you can take the words introduced as sub titles by the originators and translate them yourself, and get the same result. Far too many of these videos to say that they are not typical for the particular regime

Indeed, but when the Palestinians speak for themselves you will not hear that kind of language.

When does hamas and fatah allow the Palestinians to speak for themselves then, as all we hear is the threats of more violence coming from hamas. When they have tried they have been massacred by armed and masked terrorists

 

[rylah]

Most of the moderate Muslim world don't want this sad image of islam translated and shared in the west.
Should these stores be selectively ignored? Intentionally not translated? Truths of what some are saying hidden from all but the radicals?

These are muslims speaking no some fabricated smear piece. Maybe the speakers should be silenced and not those that translate these videos and stories for western eyes and ears.

90%+ Westerners don't speak Arabic (or Israeli/modern Hebrew for that matter) so it's vitally important we get accurate, unbiased, translations consistantly. Misunderstandings and mistranslations can and do lead to conflict. MEMRI has demonstrated unreliability and bias, not least because, it was created, and is run by, ex-IDF intelligence personnel. Examples of alleged inaccuracies can even be found in Wikipedia:
Middle East Media Research Institute - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

and other sources:

Gained in translation - Le Monde diplomatique - English edition
MEMRI Back Online After YouTube Backtracks Middle East Haaretz Daily Newspaper Israel News

For me sources must be have a minimum level of credibility and integrity to be considered trustworthy; if there's significant doubt, I'll either ignore them or treat their information with caution and scepticism until I get confirmation from sources I consider reliable.

Take the channel 4 dispatches program, the trick is to watch the program, then look around for any response that may exist, i.e.



Watch the response and then come to a reasoned, informed conclusion, not just treat one side or other as "gospel"

From the articles You've linked:

"Nevertheless, the institute is considered to lean right, and its work has been criticized in the past. Researchers and journalists have claimed that it prefers to highlight extremist positions rather than more moderate ones. "

Whitaker claims that although Memri's translations are usually accurate, they are selective and often out of context. He stated: "When errors do occur, it's difficult to attribute them to incompetence or accidental lapses... there appears to be a political motive."

Everybody has an agenda, ESPECIALLY those who play the 'interpretation card' and argue about words that mean the same when put in context. They want to SILENCE any critique of the Islamist invasion by saying it's selective-we have 'peaceful' muslims and it
insults them.

Memri was closed and reopened 3 times after waves of alleged concerned users who claim that showing the face Fascist Islamism is inciting hatred.
Basically they count on their big numbers, loud voices and western politeness JUST TO SHOOSH any resistance and block exposing their own blood libels and incitements.
Just like the did with the pogroms and threats to BBC

So yeah let's play word games, and we can reinterpret it till cows go home but the message is the same. Plus haven't seen any legal claims against MEMRI- all muslim whining about being caught with their pants
down.

Interesting interpretations (your bolding); I on the other hand would have emphasised:

"...the institute is considered to lean right, and its work has been criticized in the past. Researchers and journalists have claimed that it prefers to highlight extremist positions rather than more moderate ones."

"Whitaker claims that although Memri's translations are usually accurate, they are selective and often out of context. He stated: "When errors do occur, it's difficult to attribute them to incompetence or accidental lapses... there appears to be a political motive."

as more relevant when judging their reliability. In my view MEMRI is a part of Zionist Israel's Hasbara organisation.

I find it interesting also, that we never seem to get extremist translations from the Zionist side on MEMRITV...oh, forgot, the Zionists are all life-affirming, peace loving hippies that wouldn't say boo to a goose and have no exremists amongst them. but are continually threatened by those dastardly "Moooslims" chacun à son goût as they say.

Were MEMRI to highlight and translate Zionist Israeli extremist speeches, I might be persuaded to change my mind. I won't hold my breath...

As for word games, I defer to the master....

It's the 'Tariq Ramadan argument' of let's turn off all Islamist critique altogether, because SOME OF IT is not applicable to all.

So yeah no Islamist blood libel, no raising generations of martyrs through television, no muslim open call for annihilation, war and submission of the west.
Sure...MEMRI will continue to expose the savages as it does effectively.

They really think the average westerner is that naïve that he can be convinced by
bazar-fashion arguments and bargaining about peace and the exact meaning of foreign words.
MORE WESTERNERS KNOW ARABIC, HAD CONTACT WITH RADICAL MUSLIMS,
THAN ARABS WHO MET A WESTERNER.

You think this argument gonna stick? ACTIONS SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.
This bargaining about words is the symptom of Islam today which fights over different interpretations.
In the west we already have our interpretation of Islam that no smart ass Taqqya Immam gonna change. Simple.

Where have I said "turn off all Islamist critique altogether"? I have serious reservations about MEMRI's integrity and motives and prefer to make judgements after looking at all the facts, not just the agenda driven, "Islamist blood libel, raising generations of martyrs through television, muslim open call for annihilation, war and submission of the west" sound bites that are so popular amongst a section of posters on internet forums.

They really think the average westerner is that naïve that he can be convinced by bazar-fashion arguments and bargaining about peace and the exact meaning of foreign words.

Oh look, an argumentum ad populum fallacy.

I would argue the "average Westerner" is often convinced by slick bazar-fashion advertising and is usually far too lazy to gauge the meaning of words, we call them "Sun Readers" over here. People are rarely swayed by rational argument, but more often by the type of sound bite you keep offering up, like this one.

MORE WESTERNERS KNOW ARABIC, HAD CONTACT WITH RADICAL MUSLIMS, THAN ARABS WHO MET A WESTERNER.

Care to provide evidence for this assertion?

Well I'll tell You straight- I really don't care to search for any links on that. And frankly it was nonsense, however taken in proportion...
How many westerners travelled the world and saw thousands demonstrating, or went through humiliation and attacked (even if verbally) in their own hometowns.
But take I- I don't care, the last thing I said was nonsense...and MEMRI is a great tool and pretty much describes what's going on, even if partially...a thing muslim propagandists can't brag about.

Can You advice on other institutes?

 

[fanger]

MEMRI does damage to the israeli people, in the eyes of those who know it is a tool

 

[rylah]

MEMRI does damage to the israeli people, in the eyes of those who know it is a tool

Those eyes no matter what they see will always scan for ways to blame and demonize Israel. MEMRI is not for convinced Fascist Islamists,
but for regular westerner who looks for reasons, evidence for the invasion of his Home town and reasons to wake up and stop being polite.

I think that even if there was a totally neutral institute, it would still be blamed for exposing the Fascist Islamist and their openly declared agendas.

Any suggestions for such an Institute or you just whine by default?

 

[fanger]

No need to look or scan for ways to blame and demonize Israel. by their fruits you will know them

As to evidence for the invasion of his Home town and reasons to wake up and stop being polite.
We only need to see the european jewish immigrants into Palestine taking over

 

[rylah]

Yeah a start-up nation, full of talented and genius people who turned
an arab garbage field into a blossoming garden of innovation and success just under 50 years-
in spite of it being surrounded by numerous millions of hostile savages,
who blame all their incompetence on Israel and the joooooz.

 

[fanger]

Maybe,but it was/is their field, the jews arrived to live in Palestine as immigrants, and refused to
integrate

 

[Phoenall]

No need to look or scan for ways to blame and demonize Israel. by their fruits you will know them

As to evidence for the invasion of his Home town and reasons to wake up and stop being polite.
We only need to see the european jewish immigrants into Palestine taking over

1400 years of Islamic atrocities, violence, land thefts and murder that is well documented, yet you still say look at Israel defending itself from invasion, violence and terrorism as if it was something bad.


Are you now going to say that the violent riots in the UK in the early 1900's were the fault of Israel, or will you just ignore them as you usually do whenever islamonazi violence and terrorism pre Israel is brought up.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Yeah a start-up nation, full of talented and genius people who turned
an arab garbage field into a blossoming garden of innovation and success just under 50 years-
in spite of it being surrounded by numerous millions of hostile savages,
who blame all their incompetence on Israel and the joooooz.

As one Bedouin explained it:

I used to have a house, and a garden, and olive trees, and livestock. Israel came and now I live in a tent in the sand.

Is that Israel's version of "making the desert bloom?"

 

[Phoenall]

Maybe,but it was/is their field, the jews arrived to live in Palestine as immigrants, and refused to
integrate

Just as most of the "Palestinians " did as well. And you forget that Jews also lived in Palestine and had the same rights as arab muslims to a homeland. Now why didn't the Ottomans give the arab muslims the land, instead of chasing them away all he time ?

 

[Phoenall]

Yeah a start-up nation, full of talented and genius people who turned
an arab garbage field into a blossoming garden of innovation and success just under 50 years-
in spite of it being surrounded by numerous millions of hostile savages,
who blame all their incompetence on Israel and the joooooz.

As one Bedouin explained it:

I used to have a house, and a garden, and olive trees, and livestock. Israel came and now I live in a tent in the sand.

Is that Israel's version of "making the desert bloom?"

Missing out that his house was stolen from a Jew, who tended the garden, planted the olive trees and raised livestock. What did he expect to happen when the Jews declared independence, for them to give them flowers and more land ?

 

[rylah]

Maybe,but it was/is their field, the jews arrived to live in Palestine as immigrants, and refused to
integrate

The Hebrews arrived to JOIN their brothers and sister who continued their life in the Holy Land throughout the centuries.

When the arabs saw the growth and the variety of colors that Hebrew working people generated (after all the garbage left by the same arabs for centuries)...they flooded the area to be vessels of political pressure...or simply to prepare the ground for their masters'
invasion into reviving Israel.

Shalom.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Yeah a start-up nation, full of talented and genius people who turned
an arab garbage field into a blossoming garden of innovation and success just under 50 years-
in spite of it being surrounded by numerous millions of hostile savages,
who blame all their incompetence on Israel and the joooooz.

As one Bedouin explained it:

I used to have a house, and a garden, and olive trees, and livestock. Israel came and now I live in a tent in the sand.

Is that Israel's version of "making the desert bloom?"

Missing out that his house was stolen from a Jew, who tended the garden, planted the olive trees and raised livestock. What did he expect to happen when the Jews declared independence, for them to give them flowers and more land ?

Link?

 

[rylah]

Yeah a start-up nation, full of talented and genius people who turned
an arab garbage field into a blossoming garden of innovation and success just under 50 years-
in spite of it being surrounded by numerous millions of hostile savages,
who blame all their incompetence on Israel and the joooooz.

As one Bedouin explained it:

I used to have a house, and a garden, and olive trees, and livestock. Israel came and now I live in a tent in the sand.

Is that Israel's version of "making the desert bloom?"

Missing out that his house was stolen from a Jew, who tended the garden, planted the olive trees and raised livestock. What did he expect to happen when the Jews declared independence, for them to give them flowers and more land ?

Link?

Jerusalem

 

[Challenger]

Yeah a start-up nation, full of talented and genius people who turned
an arab garbage field into a blossoming garden of innovation and success just under 50 years-
in spite of it being surrounded by numerous millions of hostile savages,
who blame all their incompetence on Israel and the joooooz.

Hasbara drivel. Prior to WW1 Zionist attempts to colonise Ottoman Palestine were spectacular failures. after WW1 when the British took over Palestine's economy and infrastructure had been devastated by the war so the Britsh poured in resources to rebuild and Zionists started to buy the best agricultural land from absentee landowners (whose title was dubious anyway). By 1944 Jewish Zionist land ownership constituted no more than 6% of Palestine, so quite how they turned "an arab garbage field into a blossoming garden of innovation and success" is questionable. The garden was already there; Palestine already had a thriving economy under British rule and yes, Jewish finance was a contributing factor, but please, the well worn phrase "we made the desert bloom" is just a Zionist myth.

If you really want to learn about Palestine between 1917 and 1947, here's a good book I could recommend: One Palestine Complete Jews and Arabs Under the British Mandate Amazon.co.uk Tom Segev 9780349112862 Books

and a review by a Jewish academic, just in case you want to accuse me of bias: One Palestine Complete Jews and Arabs Under the British Mandate Tom Segev - Lee - 2010 - Digest of Middle East Studies - Wiley Online Library

Happy to help.

 

[Challenger]

Maybe,but it was/is their field, the jews arrived to live in Palestine as immigrants, and refused to
integrate

The Hebrews arrived to JOIN their brothers and sister who continued their life in the Holy Land throughout the centuries.

When the arabs saw the growth and the variety of colors that Hebrew working people generated (after all the garbage left by the same arabs for centuries)...they flooded the area to be vessels of political pressure...or simply to prepare the ground for their masters'
invasion into reviving Israel.

Shalom.

Hebrews?! Oh, good grief. Europeans who practiced Judaism maybe, Zionist nationalist irridentists definitely. "Hebrews" are extinct, as are "Canaanites", "Edomites", and all the other assorted tribal groups mentioned in the various religious texts. Several thousand years of wars, invasions, migrations, plagues have ensured that. More Hasbara drivel.

 

[Billo_Really]

Wrong again dildo as INTERNATIONAL LAW says the land of gaza, west bank and Jerusalem belongs to the Jews. This makes the Palestinians the insurgents, and it seems that you do not even know what insurgent means.

Post the international law that says that, troll?

 

[Lipush]

MEMRI does damage to the israeli people, in the eyes of those who know it is a tool

Just like Ha'aretz and Btselem